When to Ignore Your Own Caddie Advice?

[Birdman03]

I often pull the wrong club because I somehow think I can "feel" the right swing for the distance I am trying to hit. Too often that's the distance to the flag and I end up short.

Anyway, I sometimes need to override myself and just hit the center green distance with a full swing on the right club.

So do you have situations where you get too "cute" and should just hit the full shot based on your average carry distances?

The same thinking can apply to green reading, knowing that the vast majority of golfers under-read the breaks. On long putts it's very likely I need to play a lot more break than I see.

 

[Junkyard]

After using Shotscope products for a season and a half you learn the cold hard truth that you usually don't take enough club.

I have started playing to the back yardage number instead of the centre and have more success in not coming up short.

So yes, I often try to get cute instead of just hitting the shot

 

[mantan]

After using Shotscope products for a season and a half you learn the cold hard truth that you usually don't take enough club.

I have started playing to the back yardage number instead of the centre and have more success in not coming up short.

So yes, I often try to get cute instead of just hitting the shot

100%. For every shot I've flied the green since using the back center yardage, I've had 10 shots that ended up on the front of the green that I slightly mishit.

 

[MtlJeff]

Another hugely important variable beyond distance to the hole is where the fat part of the green is. This is a subtle but very important factor in what you want to hit.

If it's 150 to the hole but there's red stake swamp behind the green and it's a back pin. Your yardage should be "150 MAX" with 140 more likely. You shouldn't take a club you can hit 160.

We have 1-2 greens that are redan, where it's the opposite. You need to make sure you are not short so you have an uphill putt

 

[Golfers Anonymous]

Shot Scope gives you a great look at your actual game not what you think you’re doing. It’s been great tool to use. We’re all amateurs after all, always have to remember a bit of humility with the game or the game will be sure to smack you square in the face with it.

 

[MWard]

I often pull the wrong club because I somehow think I can "feel" the right swing for the distance I am trying to hit. Too often that's the distance to the flag and I end up short.

Anyway, I sometimes need to override myself and just hit the center green distance with a full swing on the right club.

So do you have situations where you get too "cute" and should just hit the full shot based on your average carry distances?

The same thinking can apply to green reading, knowing that the vast majority of golfers under-read the breaks. On long putts it's very likely I need to play a lot more break than I see.

It depends on the severity of the miss if you don’t pull it off, as well as the club you have in hand.

Wedge in hand? I’m probably gonna do somethin super aggressive because why not? 3w in hand? …. I mean probably aggressive as well, but within reason. 250 into the wind and needing to fly a body of water? Probably not gonna do that one. Maybe.

 

[GolfTravelDude]

It's difficult to change how your mind interacts with your swing. If I take more club than what my mind thinks is the right club, I tend to underswing and for me that leads to bad outcomes. Only if I have 8i or less will I attack a tucked pin. My approach play with full iron shots is a weakness for sure.

 

[Birdman03]

Another hugely important variable beyond distance to the hole is where the fat part of the green is. This is a subtle but very important factor in what you want to hit.

If it's 150 to the hole but there's red stake swamp behind the green and it's a back pin. Your yardage should be "150 MAX" with 140 more likely. You shouldn't take a club you can hit 160.

We have 1-2 greens that are redan, where it's the opposite. You need to make sure you are not short so you have an uphill putt

Good point. Quite often a good target on the green would be the center of the largest safe area. This might include a bit of the fringe actually. I really like the courses that have GPS units in the cart so I can see those target areas in map view.

You can attack the pin if it's in that zone or close to it, and you're hitting a club that has a reasonably accurate dispersion for the situation. For me that's 8i or less.

 

[MtlJeff]

Good point. Quite often a good target on the green would be the center of the largest safe area. This might include a bit of the fringe actually. I really like the courses that have GPS units in the cart so I can see those target areas in map view.

You can attack the pin if it's in that zone or close to it, and you're hitting a club that has a reasonably accurate dispersion for the situation. For me that's 8i or less.

Yes, it's a mistake i see a lot of people make. They fly the green or something because the back pin was 150, and they are like "i took my 150 club". Well if 50% of the time you are gonna hit your 150 club 155 or 156, that could put you in a lot of danger.

You have to know where the flag is, but also where the trouble is. Being pin high is an age-old key to playing good golf. But it's also just code for "know your yardages". Many courses being short of the pin is actually preferred.

My "150" club is a softish 8 iron, but i can easily hit it 155-160. If i have 150 to a back flag i will likely never take an 8 iron. Always a 9

 

[Birdman03]

Yes, it's a mistake i see a lot of people make. They fly the green or something because the back pin was 150, and they are like "i took my 150 club". Well if 50% of the time you are gonna hit your 150 club 155 or 156, that could put you in a lot of danger.

You have to know where the flag is, but also where the trouble is. Being pin high is an age-old key to playing good golf. But it's also just code for "know your yardages". Many courses being short of the pin is actually preferred.

My "150" club is a softish 8 iron, but i can easily hit it 155-160. If i have 150 to a back flag i will likely never take an 8 iron. Always a 9

I like the pin high miss as an indicator of hitting the right club for sure.

I play a lot of Par 3 golf on a course with very small greens. I get a lot of chances to test club selection and observe the misses by the other golfers.

In my experience flying the green is rare for the low HC golfer. For mid-HC types it is more frequent. They pull it or get what we call the "dreaded perfect hit". Beginners and high HCs are usually short due to poor contact. If they go over the green it's usually due to thinning it.

From what I have seen the mid-HC types need to recognize their dispersion patterns and plan accordingly. High HCs usually get better results by using more club and swinging smoothly.

 

[JonMA1]

So do you have situations where you get too "cute" and should just hit the full shot based on your average carry distances?

Of course. But the opposite is true as well - though less often.

I’m obviously not a good ball striker or I wouldn’t shoot the scores I do. What better players seem to overlook with these discussions is how wide the differences are between a duffed shot, one with decent contact, a well struck ball, one that’s been stuck purely (very rare) and a thinned wedge or short iron.

There isn’t a neat little 10 yard difference between just 2 possible outcomes. So my strategy shouldn’t match that of a better player. It’s often a case of where do I want to miss? And the right answer is often short.

As is the case for golfers at every level, we have good days and bad and there’s nothing wrong with factoring that into a decision.

When having a better than usual day of ball striking, I might second-guess my caddie (me) and take less club club, or go for a particular green at a certain distance from where I’d normally lay up.

 

[tequila4kapp]

There have been rare times when I know the hole better than the caddie or when I’ve had the exact putt before and know it does something different from what I’ve been told.

 

[TxAggie2018]

Of course. But the opposite is true as well - though less often.

I’m obviously not a good ball striker or I wouldn’t shoot the scores I do. What better players seem to overlook with these discussions is how wide the differences are between a duffed shot, one with decent contact, a well struck ball, one that’s been stuck purely (very rare) and a thinned wedge or short iron.

The key is that mishits almost always end up short of a cleanly struck shot. The only exceptions I can think of are a slinger hook or a bladed wedge.

Dispersions will be wide for higher caps like myself, but they'll be strongly biased towards the short side.

 

[lmh3]

If it is a caddie I have not had before, I will usually listen for the first three holes, if things are going well I keep listening. If we aren’t on the same page or see things differently I will get general info from them and then use my own thoughts with that info factored in.

 

[JonMA1]

The key is that mishits almost always end up short of a cleanly struck shot. The only exceptions I can think of are a slinger hook or a bladed wedge.

Dispersions will be wide for higher caps like myself, but they'll be strongly biased towards the short side.

Yes, hitting a 9i or wedge thinly can easily result in a penalty beyond the green. Mishits on longer clubs are almost always short or offline left or right.

I understand the issue. I just don't agree with the solution of pulling more club. It isn't nearly as simple as that.

 

[1860VS]

I have had to get team mates to shut up and leave me be when it comes to club selection. IE, they watch me use my stock 8I shot time after time, 154 carry, stops dead on "normal" greens. It is the perfect combination of descent and spin to get me the results I usually want. I have plenty more in the tank. If the pin is tucked, I have no problem juicing one up a bit, more carry and more spin, hit it past and pull the string a bit. Dont open your trap and tell me its tight to the bunker so hit a 7 which will give us a downhill putt from well behind the pin after it carries in there with minimal spin....... I can do a fine job of second guessing myself, thank you.

 

[leftybob]

100%. For every shot I've flied the green since using the back center yardage, I've had 10 shots that ended up on the front of the green that I slightly mishit.

When I’m playing for the first time in a while I will aim back edge center of the green assuming I’m going to miss hit the ball at least a little bit. I’ve had a lot of those misses end up with some really good looks at birdie.

 

[jfox789]

I had a caddie the other day that couldn’t find water if he fell out of a boat. Reads were awful and it was clear after 3 holes. I should’ve told him to go home but I just told him I’ll read my own putts