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Why do people lie about handicaps

Darthweasel.
 
Someone needs to start a thread on avatar names/ why you chose it .. And what is your real first name . This is fascinating beyond fascinating ..

Online forums rock .. What a hoot
 
UglySwing said:
Again, sticking with the 'public shaming approach'...

Next to the winners name (I'm assuming it will be posted somewhere for all to see) should be his score, his handicap, and the odds of a 26 handicap shooting a 74.

All of these tournie so should keep those 3 stats next to the winners name for every tournament. It should just be a normal stat for every tournament with a handicap.
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I LOVE how you think. To take it further why not make it SOP at each and every tourney that these three stats are also announced from the podium during the awards ceremony.
 
Pure ego is the only reason.

That's why I like playing with THP'ers and in THP events. #GreatQualizer
 
Stroke play finals today at my old home course (CR 67.8/SR 120)
During the qualifying round, with the added pressure:
Scores are awful.. 11.2 handicapper shot 91-92, 16 cap shot 115, 18 cap 105, loads of people shooting at least 10 worse then their handicap. It was even worse with the women: 24 cap shot 120, 20 caps shooting 100..

Final day is even worse:
Women: 16cap shot 104, aforementioned 20-cap shot 100 again, 12-13 caps shooting 90-94. Winners: 11.3@80/16.1@85/15.8@90
Men: 16.7cap shot 106, 11cap shot 99, another 11-cap shot 94 13caps@93-94. Winners: +0.5@75/7.5@80/9.5@81/10@81

Overall winners men: 74-75 (+0.5 cap, couldn't put for the world)
Women: 79-80 (11.3cap!)

The point I'm trying to make:
The 11.3cap woman is considered one of the best at the club. She is match play champion too, but her handicap certainly isn't the lowest.
The men almost all played worse then their handicap, some SERIOUSLY worse. A 16.7cap doing 94-106 just can't be happening, neither can a 11cap doing 91-99.. Especially at a CR67.8/SR120 course.
 
After reading this thread (as well as others like it we have had in the past) I don't think I will ever sign up for any of my county events.
My scores can be all over the place. My cap went from 17 to 12 and changed now back up to trending 14.8 but my play as of late been like a 20 capper.
I just cant deal with the fact that I would be labeled BS if I happen to have my best rounds of the year in an event.

I thought golf is suppose to be fun! If one wins he is full of crap and if one loses everyone else is full of crap. It seems all I ever hear is about people cheating, or people being accused of cheating. Everyone is either a cheater or accusing others of cheating. This to me is not fun! I think I'll just keep on casually and happily play myself against my courses and run a cap just for self awareness about my own game and never have to worry about cheaters or being accused of cheating. It just seems like its the only way to have fun :)
 
rollin said:
After reading this thread (as well as others like it we have had in the past) I don't think I will ever sign up for any of my county events.
My scores can be all over the place. My cap went from 17 to 12 and changed now back up to trending 14.8 but my play as of late been like a 20 capper.
I just cant deal with the fact that I would be labeled BS if I happen to have my best rounds of the year in an event.

I thought golf is suppose to be fun! If one wins he is full of crap and if one loses everyone else is full of crap. It seems all I ever hear is about people cheating, or people being accused of cheating. Everyone is either a cheater or accusing others of cheating. This to me is not fun! I think I'll just keep on casually and happily play myself against my courses and run a cap just for self awareness about my own game and never have to worry about cheaters or being accused of cheating. It just seems like its the only way to have fun :)
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I agree it can be tiring, but the system opens itself to criticism the way it's set up.

I take the stance that every competitive institution (league, Course Championship, group of buddies, mini-tour etc) needs to be Proactive in dealing with the handicap system. Simply trusting people just doesn't cut it anymore.
My local Mini-tour makes only competitive rounds played on the tour count towards your cap. Boom, no issues.
 
ArmyGolf said:
I agree it can be tiring, but the system opens itself to criticism the way it's set up.

I take the stance that every competitive institution (league, Course Championship, group of buddies, mini-tour etc) needs to be Proactive in dealing with the handicap system. Simply trusting people just doesn't cut it anymore.
My local Mini-tour makes only competitive rounds played on the tour count towards your cap. Boom, no issues.
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Counting only competitive rounds is good way to do things but that doesn't help anything for the would be stand alone weekend tourney and the player who may only do such a thing once or twice a season.

Its just a shame that this "gentleman's" game of ours which is suppose to be one of etiquette, and respect simply has no honor. Its either blame or be blamed. I've mentioned this before in another thread but I say - people who cheat and people who blame innocent people of cheating (because that's just as wrong to do imo) should all be subject to some sort of natural phenomenon where their faces turn blue.
 
Why do people lie about handicaps

I think the same folks that lie about their handicaps have truth issues in all aspects of their life's. While I find it odd it isn't surprising when you realize that must folks are far more self centered then the average THP'er


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As some people have stated before, some people have ego issues or just outright cheat so that they can raise their hdcps for tournaments.

Before I got into the golf business I used the golf course to find out just what kind of person I was dealing with. I'm not sure what it is but people can not cover up their true personality while playing golf. If a person is a liar, cheater or hot-headed then it will come out during a round of golf.
 
Then I've been shooting myself in the foot this year by playing longer, higher sloped courses. I go on my "home course" which is a short course and play with my league and I suck. I shoot the same crappy score I shoot on the long course, except the instead of having a 20 differential I have a 25 differential. What gives? Many of the holes with my league I end up teeing off with my 5 iron because there's a dog leg I'll reach. I'm playing a 5000 yd course rated under 69 with a 112 slope. I don't really like the course. The other course I hit my driver. I end up hitting the same club into the green but because it's 700 yds longer it gets rated nearly 4 strokes higher and has a 122 slope.

So basically I should play short little courses and have a 28 handicap because my short game sucks, then play tournaments on long, open courses and have a course handicap of 32 and shoot an 89 or 90, and walk away with 58 net on them. I'm doing this all wrong!
 
Why do people lie about handicaps

rollin said:
After reading this thread (as well as others like it we have had in the past) I don't think I will ever sign up for any of my county events.
My scores can be all over the place. My cap went from 17 to 12 and changed now back up to trending 14.8 but my play as of late been like a 20 capper.
I just cant deal with the fact that I would be labeled BS if I happen to have my best rounds of the year in an event.

I thought golf is suppose to be fun! If one wins he is full of crap and if one loses everyone else is full of crap. It seems all I ever hear is about people cheating, or people being accused of cheating. Everyone is either a cheater or accusing others of cheating. This to me is not fun! I think I'll just keep on casually and happily play myself against my courses and run a cap just for self awareness about my own game and never have to worry about cheaters or being accused of cheating. It just seems like its the only way to have fun :)
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Labeling someone a cheater for having their best round in an event is not what's being discussed here. There is a vast difference between getting beaten fair and square, and getting beaten by a score so statistically implausible that it should not occur in many lifetimes. Not everyone is a cheater or accusing people as such, it is the result of rampant abuse of an imperfect system.

InTheRough said:
Then I've been shooting myself in the foot this year by playing longer, higher sloped courses. I go on my "home course" which is a short course and play with my league and I suck. I shoot the same crappy score I shoot on the long course, except the instead of having a 20 differential I have a 25 differential. What gives? Many of the holes with my league I end up teeing off with my 5 iron because there's a dog leg I'll reach. I'm playing a 5000 yd course rated under 69 with a 112 slope. I don't really like the course. The other course I hit my driver. I end up hitting the same club into the green but because it's 700 yds longer it gets rated nearly 4 strokes higher and has a 122 slope.

So basically I should play short little courses and have a 28 handicap because my short game sucks, then play tournaments on long, open courses and have a course handicap of 32 and shoot an 89 or 90, and walk away with 58 net on them. I'm doing this all wrong!
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That's on you. Simply put, you should play the short course better. I would imagine if you only played the short course to try to pad your cap, you would get comfortable on the course and the statistical averages would begin to balance themselves out.
 
To initial op just go post his 74 on the usga handicap site. I took care of sandbaggers at my former club by taking the liberty of keeping and posting their scores. We had it posted in the club that all scores are to be posted.

We had a tournament where a 18 handicap shot 76. They were disqualified because it was outside of the possibility of his score. He was the second lowest score of the day. The people running the tournament are the ones that need to do something.


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i've never lied about my handicap. but i've been invited to play in events and heard the person who invited me lie about my handicap. i've always kept my mouth shut, but it's very disappointing.
 
caeleric said:
i've never lied about my handicap. but i've been invited to play in events and heard the person who invited me lie about my handicap. i've always kept my mouth shut, but it's very disappointing.
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Not to be a dick, but by not speaking up you are just as complicit in lying about your handicap since you knew it was happening. If that happened to me, I would speak up and if there is fallout, so be it.
 
rbarthle17 said:
Not to be a dick, but by not speaking up you are just as complicit in lying about your handicap. If that happened to me, I would speak up and if there is fallout, so be it.
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it's always been with clients. i'm not going to make a scene and lose a business relationship because someone wants to cheat. fortunately we've never won anything. but i've turned down invitations with those clients since then.
 
darthweasel said:
early in the thread someone mentioned they thought a 26 shooting a 74 was impossible. Maybe...but it could be the "trending" handicap thing. When I initially generated a handicap this year it was something like a 34? This is the first year I have golfed "seriously" and kept a handicap. As a result, my potential lows at the end of the year are roughly 16 shots better than at the beginning of the year. As of today my handicap is a 23.5....but arguably I have the potential to be much, much better than that.

And, in fact, this last week on a 126 slope course my driver was off and I was slicing my short irons, I shot a 106. The next day on a 124 slope my driver was long and straight, my short irons and wedges were money and I shot an 87...and actually was disappointed with it as I felt I left about 10 shots on the table when i lost my rhythm between the par 5 that had FIVE groups on it simultaneously and being distracted by the betting banter the 2 guys I was matched up with were having, albeit thoroughly enjoying the round.

Point is, I genuinely felt like one day the 106 was perfectly reasonable for a golfer of my abilities. The next day I felt like an 87 was too high for my abilities. And due to the recent stature of the handicap, I legitimately feel that on courses sloped about 125 anywhere from a 75 to a 125 is well within reason for me.

Feeding into that, the guys I was matched up with in my last round were playing the tips. I was rushed getting there, got in zero putts, zero time on the range and had maybe 2 warmup swings before I teed off having just watched 2 of the 3 guys from the championship tees put balls dead center middle about 300 yards out. I should have been 2 tee boxes up but just went one, consider this my apology. Anyhow, 2 of the guys were just nails. Drive, iron, 1-2 putts. It felt like one or the other of them birdied every hole on the front while John and I sampled the areas left, right, short and long of the green. He looked like he had no business not only on the championship tees but even on the tees I was scuffling on. I was not planning to turn this round in for a handicap so did a couple things I rarely do...upon hitting balls ob instead of laying 3 off the tee I cheated...err, took mulligans...and was something like 12 over still after 9. Realistically I was probably 20 over, maybe worse. It was ugly.

Then on the back I was a legit 1 over after 6...3 pars, 2 bogeys, and a birdie on the toughest hole on the course...and he was 1 under. Both of us were strokes ahead of the scratch golfers. Within the same 18 holes there was a complete flip flop.

When I see someone play wildly different than their handicap, my first thought is seldom they are sand-bagging or running a vanity cap. My thought is, "They are having one of THOSE sets of holes". Honestly for most of the guys I play with it is not like they go out and shoot within 4 shots of their average score time after time after time. Instead there is a 20 shot spread between outings on the same course with regularity.

Of course, that is a bit different from a tournament setting...but I think it is a legit consideration in some small way.
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Now imagine shooting 13 strokes better than your best round ever and the idea of this happening and it being legit become next to impossible.
 
caeleric said:
it's always been with clients. i'm not going to make a scene and lose a business relationship because someone wants to cheat. fortunately we've never won anything. but i've turned down invitations with those clients since then.
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Ew, that would be a bad situation to be in. I don't envy you that one.
 
Personally, I feel that in handicapped events, if the deviation is a crazy number (>10 needs to be looked at), the score needs to be thrown out for tournament score purposes, but posted to their handicap scores as a Tournament score.

Yes, it's completely unfair to those who do have a legit miracle round, but I think this would lower the amount of miracle scores that happen in handicapped events.
 
I have seen Stableford scores of mid to high 40's and even a score of 50 points and always wondered how legit they actually are

Now I know it could be possible for people to score 40+ points (heck, I did it this weekend with a nett -5 which equated to 41 points), but to score 50 points is the equivalent of shooting 14 shots under your handicap and I find that very hard to believe

I guess some people can't stand the thought of not winning, but to cheat to do it is only cheating yourself and I just can't understand that mentality in people if I am honest
 
Why do people lie about handicaps

To win.

The sad thing is, once the regular guys see that it's the only way they can win, they join in also. It's like a cancer spreading.

It's a rare tournament that can level the playing field, and even then handicaps come from the home clubs, so an open tournament stands no chance of fair play.

We and they play a similar game, but not exactly the same. For as long as we're not betting, they can play their game and we can play ours. For tournaments, I don't keep my hopes up and just wish I would win the raffle prizes.
 
Some people have lost sight of what sportsmanship is about. But it happens everywhere, not just golf.

I would rather compete in tournaments where your score is your score. Sort of like running a marathon. You mainly compete against yourself, but you also get to see how you measure up against a large group of competitors. That seems a lot more fun that the handicap shenanigans.
 
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