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DOW tumbles 1000 points on opening

NoLine said:
You are correct however if Bankrate is to be believed, less then 15% of American's own stocks. With the average American household having income of around $50K there isn't much money to put into the market.

I'm of the belief that delayed gratification and putting off major life events is the best way to build wealth when you have an average income level. When you try and do too much too soon you end up behind an eight ball that is virtually impossible to overcome.
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NoLine said:
It is, i get the 401K investment strategy but to truly understand your 401K and the funds you are choosing to invest in it is helpful to do some trading of your own - it's hard to call someone a bad driver when you don't know how to drive a car!
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However their portfolio regardless of how invested is very much in the market. I dont disagree that people dont have any money right now, sadly that has come with tax hikes in the last 5 years and small business being crippled with rising costs that are downright scary right now.

But there is money in play, and its far more than 15%. FWIW, I very much agree on the delayed gratification and far too many dont look at it like that. Aspiration vs instant is a lost art right now.
 
JB said:
However their portfolio regardless of how invested is very much in the market. I dont disagree that people dont have any money right now, sadly that has come with tax hikes in the last 5 years and small business being crippled with rising costs that are downright scary right now.

But there is money in play, and its far more than 15%.
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Well there is individual stock investment and 401K investment 15% versus 52% (if that is to be believed). Both are low and reflective of a large swath of American's who either don't have the ability to invest or are putting short decisions in front of their future.
 
NoLine said:
Well there is individual stock investment and 401K investment 15% versus 52% (if that is to be believed). Both are low and reflective of a large swath of American's who either don't have the ability to invest or are putting short decisions in front of their future.
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See my edit above, where I added the same message.
 
JB said:
See my edit above, where I added the same message.
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Thanks

I've signed hundreds of 401K paperwork issues for employees over the years. The stupidity I would see in their personal decision making was mind blowing. From reducing investment percentages to loan's everything was about putting more money in their hands now. In many of these instances the individuals were far and above average income levels.
 
NoLine said:
It is, i get the 401K investment strategy but to truly understand your 401K and the funds you are choosing to invest in it is helpful to do some trading of your own - it's hard to call someone a bad driver when you don't know how to drive a car!
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couldn't disagree more. i don't need to build my own shed to be able to trust a builder to construct my house. i don't need to re-build my carburetor to know how to find a good mechanic. i'm a damn good cpa, but i don't know jack about investing. i can either choose to be moderately skilled at many things, or very skilled at one thing and find someone who is very skilled at the other services i need and put my faith in them. i've seen "self-made" investors succeed, but i've seen many more fail.
 
I just dropped 5k into a few different stocks. Hopefully it works out in the end.
 
caeleric said:
couldn't disagree more. i don't need to build my own shed to be able to trust a builder to construct my house. i don't need to re-build my carburetor to know how to find a good mechanic. i'm a damn good cpa, but i don't know jack about investing. i can either choose to be moderately skilled at many things, or very skilled at one thing and find someone who is very skilled at the other services i need and put my faith in them. i've seen "self-made" investors succeed, but i've seen many more fail.
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Well trust is not something that got me to where I am and when it comes to my money you will be damn sure that is the case. I'm 46 and work because I want to, not have because I have to, trusting my financial advisors every decision wasn't the reason for that good fortune. I think education goes a long way instead of playing a game of hit and hope.
 
How many think this is more of a market correction and less of a crisis. China kinda of started this but that is a just a shirt term issue. The Feds have been printing money for years and flooding the work with our money and the economies haven't seen the benefit other than the market doing really well. At some point it was going to have to be corrected and things were going to come back to reality, plus the feeds have been talking about interest rate increases for awhile now which usually has an affect on the market.
 
NoLine said:
Well trust is not something that got me to where I am and when it comes to my money you will be damn sure that is the case. I'm 46 and work because I want to, not have because I have to, trusting my financial advisors every decision wasn't the reason for that good fortune. I think education goes a long way instead of playing a game of hit and hope.
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I'm genuinely happy for you, but you sound like the exception. if you're talking the market, there are myriad studies that show that no strategy other than long-term, diversified investing is successful. if you're talking about creating businesses, some people just know how to make money. but a lot more people don't, and lose quite a bit learning that lesson.


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caeleric said:
I'm genuinely happy for you, but you sound like the exception. if you're talking the market, there are myriad studies that show that no strategy other than long-term, diversified investing is successful. if you're talking about creating businesses, some people just know how to make money. but a lot more people don't, and lose quite a bit learning that lesson.


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I tend to agree with this assessment. It doesn't a very long period of loss, while the market is gaining as a whole, to put yourself in a place where you're playing catchup for quite a while. My expertise is not in financials - it would take a lot of research and learning "on the job" to get to the point where I'd trust myself more than someone who's been doing this their entire life (or an algorithm, for that matter).
 
caeleric said:
I'm genuinely happy for you, but you sound like the exception. if you're talking the market, there are myriad studies that show that no strategy other than long-term, diversified investing is successful. if you're talking about creating businesses, some people just know how to make money. but a lot more people don't, and lose quite a bit learning that lesson.


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My point on individual investing is that you can follow a fund strategy and build your own portfolio, make a little, lose a little but learn how to chart, learn the buy and sell signals and you will be better positioned to pick the right funds (and fund managers). Frankly you can do this with a small amount of money, but it's healthy to learn even if you lose. Giving your money to an "expert" without being adequately positioned to question them gives me the night sweats.

As for starting a business that is about risk tolerance, most don't possess the desire or stomach for risk.
 
NoLine said:
My point on individual investing is that you can follow a fund strategy and build your own portfolio, make a little, lose a little but learn how to chart, learn the buy and sell signals and you will be better positioned to pick the right funds (and fund managers). Frankly you can do this with a small amount of money, but it's healthy to learn even if you lose. Giving your money to an "expert" without being adequately positioned to question them gives me the night sweats.

As for starting a business that is about risk tolerance, most don't possess the desire or stomach for risk.
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There's a number of ways to learn what you need to learn about the markets in order to question a money manager without buying your own stocks. Lots of ways to skin this cat.

I know enough about a lot of subjects to challenge others, ask intelligent questions to discern motive and expertise, and to fire someone if I need to go a different direction. And in most of those cases I haven't actually done any of them nor do I desire to.

All that said, I'm one of the 15% that does own individual stocks. Mostly for entertainment and curiosity fulfillment.
 
Badger_Golfer said:
The sky is falling today but the smart people will buy when its low and make money off of it. Ive said it before and I'll say it again: the stock market is nothing more than a rich man's game. Its little more than gambling on the futures of the market. The sad part is that hard-working, middle class folks are going to lose money on their retirement, whereas the top 1% will continue to get richer.
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I have to disagree. I had educated myself over the last 20 years about investing through reading many books and subscribing to a couple online investing sites. With that knowledge I've been able to invest on my own and beat the average market return in 17 of the last 20 years. Only in the last 5 years have I had the capital and cojones to jump in when the market is down like it is this week. I wish I would have started to educate myself and save a little more when I was in my 20's, but better late than never. Almost anyone can get there if they have a plan and are willing to work hard and educate themselves about how to invest.

The mistake that most Americans is they don't save early enough. Long term the market has returned 9%, enough to save a couple million dollars by retirement age as long as you start early. Saving $244 per month($8 per day) starting at age 18 will leave you with $2,000,000 at age 65. Many companies have a 401k match that makes it very easy for a person making $50k per year to save a lot more than $244 per month. If you can do a little better than the market, say 11%, that $244 per month will be almost $4,000,000 at retirement. Taxes will take a bite out of this but my point is a married couple both making $50k per year can easily become millionaires, I know plenty that have done it. Discipline to not live beyond your means and saving early are the keys. There are numerous other ways to get ahead other than the market such as rental properties or a small side business. I'm a big believer that the U.S. still provides an amazing opportunity to growth your wealth for people of all backgrounds and education. Nealy 80% of millionaires in the U.S. are first generation.
 
My pension plan is based on stocks and shares. The end of last week my advisor called suggesting we cash in and hold the cash for a couple of weeks then start buying again. He seemed to think it was going to get worse before it gets better. He's been in this business 30+ years and I trust his judgement so thats the way we have gone. We'll sit on a pot of cash then when he thinks it has bottomed out he'll buy again and hopefully I'll come out of this slump ok. Fortunately I've 20 or so years more before retirement so should be able to make up any loses from this glitch.

I personally have not got a clue when it comes to stocks and shares and am reliant on someone who knows that business.
 
If you're not 69.5 years old I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. I've been through a whole bunch of these and the thing to remember is if you're not cashing out you haven't lost a thing.

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Jackf said:
If you're not 69.5 years old I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. I've been through a whole bunch of these and the thing to remember is if you're not cashing out you haven't lost a thing.

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I'm getting close and have lost a good bit this year but I just bought some more shares today.
 
Well, how is everyone feeling today?
 
TheHeez said:
Well, how is everyone feeling today?
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Still struggling with how much it went down.
Im cool with ebbs and flows, but the last couple of weeks had more ebbs than flows...The last 2 days helped a bit.
 
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