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Pace Of Play - Is There A Resolution

Fourputt said:
This has no provision for slow walkers. Cart GPS is irrelevant to them. GPS in carts with your position on the display is a good feature, but it's really ony effect when carts are required.

This attitude is nothing more that sticking your head in the sand. You're saying that since you can't see an obvious cure, there isn't one so just ignore it. If more people are told by their buddies that they are slow, they might start to believe it and do something about it. But someone they trust needs to tell them, because most of them aren't even aware that they are the problem - even now many aren't even aware that there is a problem. And that is really where the problem lies.

There are a dozen little ways for most players to improve their pace of play, but if they don't know they have a problem they aren't going to seek a solution.
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I tried telling a friend once. It was in-between holes. I told him we were falling behind and that we had to start playing "ready golf" and "cut down on the excess practices" swings. Of course, his next shot was horrible & he blamed me for rushing him. We were a two-some and were falling behind a foursome. I haven't played with him in 2-3 years.

Another buddy I have plays really slow too. I have mentioned it to him away from the golf course, but it never seems to do any good.

Maybe you have had better luck with your playing partners, but I have not. Also, if there was an "obvious cure" someone would fix the problem.
 
rollin said:
With due respect to anyone I get so very tired of people constantly placing emphasis on tee selection for being so very detrimental towards pace. With all the reasons for slow pace, tee selection imo is about last on the list for being detrimental vs so many other things. If one is to hack up a bad round from the tee boxes, they will do it from any tee. I don't care about the extra strokes, its still up to the person to move along. This can be done from any tee. I mean send a tee shot chopped 40 yards up to the left, and regardless of which tee was played its still the same shot and still he will walk up to his ball and hit it again, it doesn't take 15 minutes to do that. Far more time is wasted on greens by far more people than is ever wasted by playing the wrong tees imo. And its very often better players who waste more time on greens. Bottom line is some people know and care how to move along and others don't. Regardless of tees, how good or poor they play, if one knows, understands, and cares he will move and if he doesn't he wont.

My most frequented home course is usually4:00 to 4:20 on an average weekend. I can play the whites 6450 or the Blues at 7000 and I can shoot about the same from either and if my group finishes in under 4 hrs I will be there with them regardless which tee I played and regardless how well i played. Through the years I've shot over 100 many times there and yet finished many times in less than 4 hrs with any group I was with f that was how fast they played.. Why? Because I care not to be the reason for others to get held up. I know how to move along. If things are going very badly for me I will have to work much harder at moving fast enough but I will do it. It is the person him/her self. If they are too slow, they will be too slow regardless. If they care to move and understand how to do what is necessary they will be just fine.

Just yesterday we (4some group of singles) was on 15 (I actually had a good round until this very shot but thats another story lol) anyway I skulled one out of greenside bunker and it went all the way across and under a tree. I had to rake my trap then walk all the way over there (pretty far) and with no shot from there, chip it out and than yet pitch a third one on to the green. The other guys were chipping and putting up and going about their business so as to help keep things rolling while I messed up and chased my ball around. Anyway, while this was all going on the next group was leaving the next tee which was just fine for the moment. I walked very quickly to do what I had to do, get to my ball chip it out and than pitch it on to about 10 feet. I was doing it all with a sense of urgency because I care. I wasn't strolling about taking easy time. I told the others to chip/putt on up while I do this all. Anyway (even though I was moving quickly) by the time I pitched to about 10 feet I now noticed the last guy of the next group ahead was hitting his second shot. So I said to my group from afar "ah, pick it up for me, we have to go". So having never stepped foot on the green I gave myself a 2putt from 10 feet and we never lost a step. To be honest I could have gone and putted and still not fell behind anything significant at all. But you see, I had to do what I felt had to do in order to make certain we kept up. I am not looking for pat on the back here but the point is that its about the person and his willingness to do what is required, what is necessary, and to care enough to do it. Its not the persons tee choice, "its the persons mindset about his pace." If a person is not conscious of pace he will not keep a good one. You have to understand where your at and what to do about it, you just need an awareness for the whole situation and then of course you also have to care about it.

Another thing yesterday while waiting only a minute on a tee (because we were now 3) , one of my playing partners made comment how the group in front was playing the tips and how he noticed one of them hit a short scribbler from the tee and another on his second shot too. He was (in a friendly conversation) implying the same misguided logic about tee selection and pace. I said (asked) to him "let me ask you a few questions" "but have we waited anything long at all the entire day?" answer - No. I then asked "has pace moved pretty good?" answer - yea we're moving well" I then asked "Are they behind the group ahead of them?" answer - yea they are. So with all that I suggested "whats the difference which tee he scribbled his shot from" He could scribble the same shots from that tee there or this one here". Regardless how well he is playing or where he is teeing he and his group are not slow at all and are keeping in stride with the group ahead of them. He said "you know, I guess your right, I really didn't think of it that way.

And that is part of the problem that falsely adds to pace issues that aren't even really existing. . Too many times pace isn't even an issue and somebody sees something like another playing tips and screwing up the shot and automatically he starts feeling as though this is why golf is slow even when its not slow. I know real pace problems exist in too many places. I use to live and play where 5 hours felt great because that's how bad it was. But that "real" problem is not the norm in most places. And the only difference vs where I play now is that we use 10 minute tee times while my old places used 7 minutes. That in itself is a nightmare in the waiting. Pull up to the first tee and already waiting behind 2 groups. That's 100% a management issue creating a nightmare.
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But none of that changes the fact that pace of play issues not only exist but are growing larger. Each time these threads come up, you speak of the people complaining without their being an actual issue from a small sample at your home course.

That DOES NOT change the fact that pace of play IS still a huge issue in golf and one of the biggest hurdles that the sport has to overcome to get more people playing. That is like saying that because a guy got mad in traffic because the person in front of them was tapping the break constantly, but still keeping up with the car in front of them, that traffic does not exist.

Pace of play is a huge issue for the sport.
 
JB said:
But none of that changes the fact that pace of play issues not only exist but are growing larger. Each time these threads come up, you speak of the people complaining without their being an actual issue from a small sample at your home course.

That DOES NOT change the fact that pace of play IS still a huge issue in golf and one of the biggest hurdles that the sport has to overcome to get more people playing. That is like saying that because a guy got mad in traffic because the person in front of them was tapping the break constantly, but still keeping up with the car in front of them, that traffic does not exist.

Pace of play is a huge issue for the sport.
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yes your correct, it doesn't change the fact that are pace problems in the sport in many places.
However I am not of the belief that if every round never took more than 4 hours that masses of people will flock to golf again.
 
Tee box selection is most certainly a huge factor in longer rounds. Yes everything here is going to have an exception to the rule and some guys can and will play fast from the wrong tees but the fact remains most don't. If you have to wait every single hole because the group in front of you is playing every par 4 like its a par 5 then you have to wait to hit every single time. The group behind playing the par 4 as a par 4 isn't laying up, they are gonna reach the green or at least get close to it, either way they cannot hit till the group in front hits their third shots then their putts. I know people love to say "I wanna get my monies worth" well so do the rest of us and if your gonna play from 6500 yards and you only drive the ball 200, well your gonna hold everyone up unless you plan on picking up a lot.
 
I really think when you pay for your round things should be explained more specifically as to what is expected as you play the round. Most places just assume you know what you are doing, and a lot of people clearly don't. I also think the tour really could do a lot to help as people emulate what they see, but I really don't see that changing any time soon.
 
jitzy said:
Tee box selection is most certainly a huge factor in longer rounds. Yes everything here is going to have an exception to the rule and some guys can and will play fast from the wrong tees but the fact remains most don't. If you have to wait every single hole because the group in front of you is playing every par 4 like its a par 5 then you have to wait to hit every single time. The group behind playing the par 4 as a par 4 isn't laying up, they are gonna reach the green or at least get close to it, either way they cannot hit till the group in front hits their third shots then their putts. I know people love to say "I wanna get my monies worth" well so do the rest of us and if your gonna play from 6500 yards and you only drive the ball 200, well your gonna hold everyone up unless you plan on picking up a lot.
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I understand but don't necessarily agree. Many weekend hackers and even many avid golfers of lessor abilities who can hit the ball a long way but can often have poor tee shots. Bad days from the tees happen. It can be lumped together or could be scattered throughout a round. When one miss hits a tee shot (say for example a scribbler that goes 40 yards and to the left) he can make the same mistakes from any tee. The result is the same from the tee whether its 20 yards closer or not. A second shot from close by is still required for that poor tee shot either way. The amount of poor and even errant shots from mis hits is a pretty high percentage throughout the average rounds for most people who golf. One hits such a miss hit from any tee and the result is similar. Even when hits are from the tee are good, they may still then miss hit the second shot very badly so either way they are playing for bogey or (5) instead of 4 or may be even 6 regardless of the fact that they teed off 20 or even 30 yards closer. They may even miss hit the tee shot and the second shot. In the end its up to the individual to simply have an awareness of his pace and to do whatever it takes to play faster when he is not playing well because when he's not playing well he is taking more strokes from any tee starting point so he must move much more quickly in order not to be detrimental to pace. If I have a bad hole its going to happen whether I played from my usual whites or from the very rarely played Blues. Its then just up to me how fast I do everything. It takes much more effort for me when things are bad but I still do it. I could play the reds and have a bad ball striking day and I'd be in the same scenario. I'd have to work harder to move faster when its bad and I do. But its because I am aware of it and care about it. Its imo about the person and his/her mindset to be aware of it regardless where from. But of course within reason I understand.
 
rollin said:
yes your correct, it doesn't change the fact that are pace problems in the sport in many places.
However I am not of the belief that if every round never took more than 4 hours that masses of people will flock to golf again.
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It's a building process. When the top issue for golfers that left in more than half the surveys done is pace of play it means there is a problem. Just because you don't mind spending extra time out there does not mean the issue will not help.

If it brings back a small portion it helps. Grow the game is an important step in the next evolution of the sport. Times have changed and people don't have or don't want to spend the extra hour because a select few say "I don't want to feel rushed".

The problem exists and trying to pretend it doesn't because some guy once said hurry up does not change the fact that rounds are taking longer than they need to.
 
rollin said:
I understand but don't necessarily agree. Many weekend hackers and even many avid golfers of lessor abilities who can hit the ball a long way but can often have poor tee shots. Bad days from the tees happen. It can be lumped together or could be scattered throughout a round. When one miss hits a tee shot (say for example a scribbler that goes 40 yards and to the left) he can make the same mistakes from any tee. The result is the same from the tee whether its 20 yards closer or not. A second shot from close by is still required for that poor tee shot either way. The amount of poor and even errant shots from mis hits is a pretty high percentage throughout the average rounds for most people who golf. One hits such a miss hit from any tee and the result is similar. Even when hits are from the tee are good, they may still then miss hit the second shot very badly so either way they are playing for bogey or (5) instead of 4 or may be even 6 regardless of the fact that they teed off 20 or even 30 yards closer. They may even miss hit the tee shot and the second shot. In the end its up to the individual to simply have an awareness of his pace and to do whatever it takes to play faster when he is not playing well because when he's not playing well he is taking more strokes from any tee starting point so he must move much more quickly in order not to be detrimental to pace. If I have a bad hole its going to happen whether I played from my usual whites or from the very rarely played Blues. Its then just up to me how fast I do everything. It takes much more effort for me when things are bad but I still do it. I could play the reds and have a bad ball striking day and I'd be in the same scenario. I'd have to work harder to move faster when its bad and I do. But its because I am aware of it and care about it. Its imo about the person and his/her mindset to be aware of it regardless where from. But of course within reason I understand.
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There's poor tee box selection, and there's working around the state of your game to play fast - to me, those are two different pace of play issues. In the first, I'll take the round I played to start the year. Course had just opened, so they only had two sets of tees. One between Blue/White and one between White/Red. So, the "whites" were playing something like 6500 while the "reds" were playing maybe 5800. One of the guys I was playing with "wasn't going to play the senior tees", but he was 180 tops with his driver. He had multiple holes where he's 250+ in on his second shot. I don't care what you say, that's going to slow down play. And to your point about many weekend hackers and lesser ability golfers hitting the ball a long way - I'd say that's the exception, rather than the rule. It's been shown time and time again that people hit the ball shorter than they think they do, often very much so. Launch monitors are cruel, cruel devices.

To your other point - yes, mishits can happen anywhere on the course, and you need to play around the state of your game to finish in the time allotted. I know this all too well, having a rough case of the shanks off and on for the last two seasons. This is where the rangers come in, but it's hard at the same time, as nobody is going to like to be told to pick up after hitting their third topped ball in a row or something. But even still, I've played with some good golfers who are among the slowest I've seen.
 
rollin said:
yes your correct, it doesn't change the fact that are pace problems in the sport in many places.
However I am not of the belief that if every round never took more than 4 hours that masses of people will flock to golf again.
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However, it can't hurt. This is the thing - there is no single factor causing the decline in golf, nor will fixing a single issue grow the game. You have to address each issue if you want to ultimately solve the problem. Maybe YOU don't see a problem but it definitely exists.

rollin said:
I understand but don't necessarily agree. Many weekend hackers and even many avid golfers of lessor abilities who can hit the ball a long way but can often have poor tee shots. Bad days from the tees happen. It can be lumped together or could be scattered throughout a round. When one miss hits a tee shot (say for example a scribbler that goes 40 yards and to the left) he can make the same mistakes from any tee. The result is the same from the tee whether its 20 yards closer or not. A second shot from close by is still required for that poor tee shot either way. The amount of poor and even errant shots from mis hits is a pretty high percentage throughout the average rounds for most people who golf. One hits such a miss hit from any tee and the result is similar. Even when hits are from the tee are good, they may still then miss hit the second shot very badly so either way they are playing for bogey or (5) instead of 4 or may be even 6 regardless of the fact that they teed off 20 or even 30 yards closer. They may even miss hit the tee shot and the second shot. In the end its up to the individual to simply have an awareness of his pace and to do whatever it takes to play faster when he is not playing well because when he's not playing well he is taking more strokes from any tee starting point so he must move much more quickly in order not to be detrimental to pace. If I have a bad hole its going to happen whether I played from my usual whites or from the very rarely played Blues. Its then just up to me how fast I do everything. It takes much more effort for me when things are bad but I still do it. I could play the reds and have a bad ball striking day and I'd be in the same scenario. I'd have to work harder to move faster when its bad and I do. But its because I am aware of it and care about it. Its imo about the person and his/her mindset to be aware of it regardless where from. But of course within reason I understand.
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Playing from the wrong tees is definitely one of the factors in slow play. In part it's a mind set that players have to play tees that match the length of their drive, with no consideration as to the accuracy of those drives. If you can't hit your driver in play, then play a shorter tee and use a shorter club.

Yeah, I know - that's sacrilege. The modern game seems to be all about distance - long, longer, longest. If we can't do something to chip away at that mindset then one of the big factors in slow play will never be resolved. When I learned the game it was more about keeping the ball in play. I never really noticed when that paradigm shifted to length at any cost. That philosophy is fine if you only play courses with wide open rough and good recovery opportunities. The more obstacles to play that the course throws at you, the less likely you are to be able to keep a good pace if you insist on the "grip it and rip it" mindset, but lack the ability to pull it off.

I played for some 15 years before I was able to hit the driver with some degree of success, so I practiced the driver on the range and played 3W on the course. Somehow, golf was still enough fun to keep me hooked for the last 40+ years.
 
mpeterson said:
There's poor tee box selection, and there's working around the state of your game to play fast - to me, those are two different pace of play issues. In the first, I'll take the round I played to start the year. Course had just opened, so they only had two sets of tees. One between Blue/White and one between White/Red. So, the "whites" were playing something like 6500 while the "reds" were playing maybe 5800. One of the guys I was playing with "wasn't going to play the senior tees", but he was 180 tops with his driver. He had multiple holes where he's 250+ in on his second shot. I don't care what you say, that's going to slow down play. And to your point about many weekend hackers and lesser ability golfers hitting the ball a long way - I'd say that's the exception, rather than the rule. It's been shown time and time again that people hit the ball shorter than they think they do, often very much so. Launch monitors are cruel, cruel devices.

To your other point - yes, mishits can happen anywhere on the course, and you need to play around the state of your game to finish in the time allotted. I know this all too well, having a rough case of the shanks off and on for the last two seasons. This is where the rangers come in, but it's hard at the same time, as nobody is going to like to be told to pick up after hitting their third topped ball in a row or something. But even still, I've played with some good golfers who are among the slowest I've seen.
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yes good players may very often be the cause of slow play. I've often advocated in my years of playing how good players can take forever to do everything especially around the greens and I have found fault for slow play many many many times coming from good players. As for picking up it is something I will do when at times I may play that badly and before If it means we will fall behind. After all its only the esc score that will count anyway. But again its my mindset and willingness to care not to be the reason for slow pace. Too many people just don't have that concern. and many have it but only relate it to everyone else but not when it comes to themselves because then it becomes ok to take their time.
 
Where I play if the ranger suspects you're holding up pace he'll give a warning, after that he tells you to skip a hole, I think that just playing ready golf is the best solution, unless we get rid of the speed governors on golf carts...


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Fourputt said:
However, it can't hurt. This is the thing - there is no single factor causing the decline in golf, nor will fixing a single issue grow the game. You have to address each issue if you want to ultimately solve the problem. Maybe YOU don't see a problem but it definitely exists.

Playing from the wrong tees is definitely one of the factors in slow play. In part it's a mind set that players have to play tees that match the length of their drive, with no consideration as to the accuracy of those drives. If you can't hit your driver in play, then play a shorter tee and use a shorter club.

Yeah, I know - that's sacrilege. The modern game seems to be all about distance - long, longer, longest. If we can't do something to chip away at that mindset then one of the big factors in slow play will never be resolved. When I learned the game it was more about keeping the ball in play. I never really noticed when that paradigm shifted to length at any cost. That philosophy is fine if you only play courses with wide open rough and good recovery opportunities. The more obstacles to play that the course throws at you, the less likely you are to be able to keep a good pace if you insist on the "grip it and rip it" mindset, but lack the ability to pull it off.

I played for some 15 years before I was able to hit the driver with some degree of success, so I practiced the driver on the range and played 3W on the course. Somehow, golf was still enough fun to keep me hooked for the last 40+ years.
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I agree with some of this yes and no. I play the white (middle sets at my home courses). They are all between 6400 and 6500. All my blues are about 7000 even give or take a few. I am actually ok long enough (when hitting well) to play the blues. Its also why the very rare times I have played them I score about the same and move along about the same. But I don't normally play them blues (only very rare) because I am not consistent enough to play them so I agree with you there.. But if I I were to have rounds were my tee game falls apart from my whites I shouldn't then be forced to play the reds. I only use my driver (depending on weather and tee placement) 8 to 10 times on average from my whites now. If I had to play my reds I wouldn't use it at all except for the par 5's. If I play reds and have a good tee day and did use my driver I would be a wedge out on every par4. Just in the same way it is not fun to be a very long club out on every hole it is also not fun at all to be a wedge out on every hole either or to always use only shorter tee clubs.. Both scenarios make golf a lot less fun imo.

I feel one should play tees that give you a good mix of a few long, but mostly medium and short clubs for a second shot. I just don't think its correct to take away a chunk of golf course from one who is long enough for the tees he is playing because he may at times struggle with consistency. But I do talk within reason. As said I don't play the blues because of my consistency. But if one were to force me to now play the reds because they saw me have a bad tee day I would be very teed off. But again I also know and am willing to do all I have to in order to keep up and by playing my middle tees I am not playing tees too long for me to begin with.
 
blugold said:
Early education. That's key. Start them early.
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You are correct. However they are teaching them the wrong things early. Yesterday I caddied for my daughter in her first US Kids Golf tournament. 12-14 year old bracket. Literature all over the place about pace of play. Rule is you have 45 seconds from the time you get to your ball to hit your shot. The reality was we teed off over a half hour late due to slow play in front of us. One girl in our group would take literally 5 minutes to decide and execute her shot. She and her caddie would walk up to the green from 100 yards and in to measure the shot. Then she would laser it too. It nearly took 6 hours to play. And not a single penalty was enforced. It got so bad that on the back nine my daughter wanted to quit.
 
rollin said:
I agree with some of this yes and no. I play the white (middle sets at my home courses). They are all between 6400 and 6500. All my blues are about 7000 even give or take a few. I am actually ok long enough (when hitting well) to play the blues. Its also why the very rare times I have played them I score about the same and move along about the same. But I don't normally play them blues (only very rare) because I am not consistent enough to play them so I agree with you there.. But if I I were to have rounds were my tee game falls apart from my whites I shouldn't then be forced to play the reds. I only use my driver (depending on weather and tee placement) 8 to 10 times on average from my whites now. If I had to play my reds I wouldn't use it at all except for the par 5's. If I play reds and have a good tee day and did use my driver I would be a wedge out on every par4. Just in the same way it is not fun to be a very long club out on every hole it is also not fun at all to be a wedge out on every hole either or to always use only shorter tee clubs.. Both scenarios make golf a lot less fun imo.

I feel one should play tees that give you a good mix of a few long, but mostly medium and short clubs for a second shot. I just don't think its correct to take away a chunk of golf course from one who is long enough for the tees he is playing because he may at times struggle with consistency. But I do talk within reason. As said I don't play the blues because of my consistency. But if one were to force me to now play the reds because they saw me have a bad tee day I would be very teed off. But again I also know and am willing to do all I have to in order to keep up and by playing my middle tees I am not playing tees too long for me to begin with.
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Maybe you need to look for a course with more than 3 tee sets. My old home course (public muni) has finally completed the 10 year plan to add a 4th tee to each hole. Each year during the off season they would rebuild the tees on 2 holes, and in the process they would add a new box where necessary to accommodate a fourth tee = some of the new tees were forward, some were intended for the new 2nd tees, some were new back tees. Mid season last year they opened the new tees and boy, is that a nice difference.

The gold tees are a mix of the old red tees plus some of the new shortest boxes. They have made the white tees a mix of the old whites and some of the new tee boxes built in front of the old whites, while now the blues are a mix of the shorter of the old blues and the remaining longer old whites. The blacks are a mix of the longest of the old blues and some new back tees. I played there last week from the white tees and it was a good mix. I didn't really notice that I was playing a shorter course, yet I always seemed to be in reach of even the longest par 4 holes with my second - even the 12th that used to be 430 yards from the white tees and had become unreachable for me unless I hit a perfect tee shot with no headwind. I felt like I had just chopped 15 years off my age.
 
fireitup said:
You are correct. However they are teaching them the wrong things early. Yesterday I caddied for my daughter in her first US Kids Golf tournament. 12-14 year old bracket. Literature all over the place about pace of play. Rule is you have 45 seconds from the time you get to your ball to hit your shot. The reality was we teed off over a half hour late due to slow play in front of us. One girl in our group would take literally 5 minutes to decide and execute her shot. She and her caddie would walk up to the green from 100 yards and in to measure the shot. Then she would laser it too. It nearly took 6 hours to play. And not a single penalty was enforced. It got so bad that on the back nine my daughter wanted to quit.
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This is just stupid. If you are going to have a policy, then you are obligated to enforce it. I really can't understand mismanaging a competition that way.
 
The only way to fix pace of play is to get the slow golfer's to realize they are slow, and then to have those slow golfer's want to be faster. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there are a lot of selfish people out there who feel that they can do whatever they want since they paid to play.

I don't have any numbers, but I would imagine that golfer's being forced to skip a hole would cause one not to come back to the course more often compared to slow pace of play. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a lot of people would feel cheated out of their money if they were forced to skip a hole.

At the same time, faster groups need to understand that just because they are faster it doesn't give them the right to play through. If a faster group comes up on a group and sees that there are multiple groups in front of them, they shouldn't expect to be let through. If that faster group has to get 3-4 groups to stop play to let them through, then they are in fact causing play to slow down even further for the groups behind.

I'll never understand the expectation of some golfers thinking that they should never have to wait for anything. Just as in other sports, sometimes you will just have to wait for others. There are people who think they are more important than others on both sides of the pace of play issue. If everybody would just have simple respect of others on the course it could prevent a lot of frustration.
 
I read some comments about there being nothing a 'bad' golfer can do to speed up play if he's dribbling off the tee. I couldn't disagree more - While I believe there are plenty of terrible golfers who play very slow, there are also a huge percentage of GOOD golfers that are annoyingly slow in everything they do.

Great example from this past week, where my group picked up a single as a favour to someone and he was a very nice guy. The problem was his pace of play, which was agonizingly slow. It took me all of one hole to stop waiting for him and drive well forward, get the clubs for my next shot, turn back, and stare at him still back in the fairway taking practice swings for his shot. To draw a comparison, my cart companion shot a higher score than this individual, yet waited incessantly while this dude decided what to do next.

It's not even about practice swings. Take two, take three, I don't care.... It's about being READY to play once it is your turn. If someone is 50 yards to your left and out of sight, you should have gone through your entire routine by the time they've hit so you can pull the trigger and move forward.

We got rained out after 8 holes. Had it lasted another couple holes, I was going to ask him to speed up his play. While I generally try to be a nice person, people need to learn how to play ready golf.
 
Fourputt said:
This is just stupid. If you are going to have a policy, then you are obligated to enforce it. I really can't understand mismanaging a competition that way.
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Exactly. They are teaching the kids that even though there is a rule about pace of play there will be no enforcement of said rule. Sounds like the PGA Tour to me.
 
One thing a course can do is to designate the first 3 - 5 tee times as "fast" times. In other words, those first 3 - 5 tee times are expected to finish their round in 3:30 to 3:45. Post it on their booking site and make sure it is told to the groups before they start. Also, tell them that they will be pushed by the marshals if they don't keep up. I believe that if a group knows they are booking a "fast" time, they will consciously or unconsciously move quicker. Plus, those tee times will attract faster players.

If the first groups go out fast, it sets a good pace and helps the course flow as a whole.
 
I was thinking about a "resolution" for slow play; it really comes down to reward and punishment (or positive and negative reinforcement if you please).

On tour, at least they have implemented a warning system that can lead to penalty strokes. For the rest of us, all we can do is grumble.

For any substantive change to take place, there has to be some negative consequences for slow play. Perhaps a "slow play surcharge" could be levied at the beginning of the round; and that could be rebated back if the players finish in the allotted time period. But that would only punish the faster players who spent the day waiting on the slow players in front of them.

So maybe slower players could be restricted to playing later in the day, and not given access to premium tee times.

At any rate, nothing will change without meaningful consequences. And of course, that would mean being able to IDENTIFY the culprits...

It's a tough situation for sure.
 
This is very true Dan.
Yesterday we went off at 8am. We had 6 guys playing 2 threesomes. Myself, my dad and another guy went in the first group. We finished at 11:20, we did not even hurry we just played ready golf, and we all 3 played really bad. My 3 buddies that went behind us, did not finish until noon. When they got in I asked, what took you boys so long, they said, they were not slow, we played in 3 hours and 50 minutes and no one was waiting on us. I told them that is an insane amount of time for a 3 some when its not paths only. If they would have been a 4 some they would have been over 4 hours. I pissed my buddies off a little, but I did not care, it was ridiculous. But in the grand scheme of things I don't think me saying anything mattered because they still do not think they played slow.

Canadan said:
I read some comments about there being nothing a 'bad' golfer can do to speed up play if he's dribbling off the tee. I couldn't disagree more - While I believe there are plenty of terrible golfers who play very slow, there are also a huge percentage of GOOD golfers that are annoyingly slow in everything they do.

Great example from this past week, where my group picked up a single as a favour to someone and he was a very nice guy. The problem was his pace of play, which was agonizingly slow. It took me all of one hole to stop waiting for him and drive well forward, get the clubs for my next shot, turn back, and stare at him still back in the fairway taking practice swings for his shot. To draw a comparison, my cart companion shot a higher score than this individual, yet waited incessantly while this dude decided what to do next.

It's not even about practice swings. Take two, take three, I don't care.... It's about being READY to play once it is your turn. If someone is 50 yards to your left and out of sight, you should have gone through your entire routine by the time they've hit so you can pull the trigger and move forward.

We got rained out after 8 holes. Had it lasted another couple holes, I was going to ask him to speed up his play. While I generally try to be a nice person, people need to learn how to play ready golf.
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Dr RosenRosen said:
One thing a course can do is to designate the first 3 - 5 tee times as "fast" times. In other words, those first 3 - 5 tee times are expected to finish their round in 3:30 to 3:45. Post it on their booking site and make sure it is told to the groups before they start. Also, tell them that they will be pushed by the marshals if they don't keep up. I believe that if a group knows they are booking a "fast" time, they will consciously or unconsciously move quicker. Plus, those tee times will attract faster players.

If the first groups go out fast, it sets a good pace and helps the course flow as a whole.
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I wish this would be the norma at every course. I get so annoyed at one of the nicer, local courses gives two "pass holders" the 1st tee time every day despite playing slow as dirt. It totally hoses up the morning when things are somewhat busy, but the pro doesn't want to rock the boat since they are loyal customers. Regular golfers in the area avoid the morning tee times there because we all know these two.
 
Dr RosenRosen said:
One thing a course can do is to designate the first 3 - 5 tee times as "fast" times. In other words, those first 3 - 5 tee times are expected to finish their round in 3:30 to 3:45. Post it on their booking site and make sure it is told to the groups before they start. Also, tell them that they will be pushed by the marshals if they don't keep up. I believe that if a group knows they are booking a "fast" time, they will consciously or unconsciously move quicker. Plus, those tee times will attract faster players.

If the first groups go out fast, it sets a good pace and helps the course flow as a whole.
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My old country club did this. Made it freaking worse. Because the slow as all heck golfers, assumed that if they werent one of those early times, they could be out there for 9 hours.

There is an easy fix however. Put up a time rule. Enforce said rule.
The problem is the economy in the US still stinks, and people being told what to do are going to act with their wallets in the future. Which means no future business and a course is not willing to do it.
 
JB said:
My old country club did this. Made it freaking worse. Because the slow as all heck golfers, assumed that if they werent one of those early times, they could be out there for 9 hours.

There is an easy fix however. Put up a time rule. Enforce said rule.
The problem is the economy in the US still stinks, and people being told what to do are going to act with their wallets in the future. Which means no future business and a course is not willing to do it.
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That was something I wondered about - whether the other "slow" tee times would think this gives them the license to crawl around the course.

I won't get into the economy thing because I think that is a discussion for another thread...:D
 
I don't think that asking him to pick up the pace would make you an un-nice person....

Canadan said:
...Had it lasted another couple holes, I was going to ask him to speed up his play. While I generally try to be a nice person, people need to learn how to play ready golf.
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