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cheating, what have you seen

jefffann said:
was out with some buddies and one consistantly found the woods off of the tee.The ball would go smoking in about 20' off the ground and he found every one at the edge of the woods.I challenged him on it and his defense was he'd paid $45 for green fees so he wasn't going to count a ball as lost and take a stroke.I guess that's ok but we were playing skins so if he'd of won one I'd of had about the same kind of logic when I wouldn't pay up to him.
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I think I know that guy Jeff!
 
jefffann said:
was out with some buddies and one consistantly found the woods off of the tee.The ball would go smoking in about 20' off the ground and he found every one at the edge of the woods.I challenged him on it and his defense was he'd paid $45 for green fees so he wasn't going to count a ball as lost and take a stroke.I guess that's ok but we were playing skins so if he'd of won one I'd of had about the same kind of logic when I wouldn't pay up to him.
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Smallville said:
I think I know that guy Jeff!
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I Swear to God, it's not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
it wasn't you two it was another Jeff out at alvamar
 
I have seen it all. Today I played with that guy who always says he got a bogie even though he hit two shots out of play. I counted his strokes on one of the Par 5s, I counted 11 and he said he got a 7. I didn't call him on it simply because I couldn't care less and I will never see him again; but had we been playing for $$$ or bragging rights I would have called him on it.

I often play with older gentlemen that improve their lie on nearly every shot. They do so without shame and without hiding it. They don't keep an official handicap; they just do it to enjoy the game. I don't mind playing with these fellas; they are always having fun and they are humble. And because they are playing from perfect lies, it moves the round along quickly.
 
I have seen it all, but the one I hate most....that is probably done the most....is improving ones lie.
I see person after person after person reach up and pull that ball on a little tuft of grass to get better 3W contact....

That is just a false sense of thinking you're good.
I would love to see those people play it as it lies for an entire 18 holes....
Me thinks there score would go up 4-5 strokes....
 
bama said:
I have seen it all, but the one I hate most....that is probably done the most....is improving ones lie.
I see person after person after person reach up and pull that ball on a little tuft of grass to get better 3W contact....

That is just a false sense of thinking you're good.
I would love to see those people play it as it lies for an entire 18 holes....
Me thinks there score would go up 4-5 strokes....
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I only have a problem with it when there is money or pride on the line- like interloopers said. If you are just out to have fun and enjoy retirement, what harm is done? Heck, it might even be more enjoyable because you do hit better shots and the round goes smoother.
 
RxGus said:
I only have a problem with it when there is money or pride on the line- like interloopers said. If you are just out to have fun and enjoy retirement, what harm is done? Heck, it might even be more enjoyable because you do hit better shots and the round goes smoother.
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Ohhh....I totally agree....I was implying that (although not well) in my reply...:act-up:
 
I've played a lot of tournaments over the years and I've never seen anyone cheat during play. I've seen players break the rules during casual play, usually through ignorance, but since nobody was injured or defrauded, it isn't cheating. I don't tend to hook up with the type of player who would cheat when there is something on the line. If I ever did, it would only happen once.

I have known one confirmed sandbagger, which is just another way of cheating. He was dealt with by the handicap committee, and disappeared quietly. I have reason to be suspicious of the 2-man team who won one flight in a non Men's Club tournament a couple of years ago, but no evidence to back up my suspicions. As a result, I simply mentioned it to the head pro (who runs this tournament) and suggested a different way of returning scorecards so that such an incident could never be repeated, if in fact it did happen as I suspect.

Other than that, I find golfers in properly run competitions to be quite honest and forthright. All who I've come into contact with have done all they can to play the game the right way. :thumb:
 
ken419 said:
I've never seen it done, but I'm sure it's illegal. Took a quick glance through the USGA's "The Rules of Golf" book, but couldn't find anything specific. Anyone want to weigh in and direct me to something I'm obviously missing?
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You can't even touch your ball when it lies through the green unless there is specific cause. If you need to lift it to identify it, or because it interferes with another player's stroke, or if you have reason to suspect that it is damaged, or if it's embedded in it's own pitch mark. In the first 3 cases it must be replaced, meaning that it must be placed exactly where it was lifted from, and you aren't even allowed to clean the ball (in the case of replacing a damaged ball, you may substitute a ball, but it still must be replaced on the same spot). In the 4th case it must be dropped on the same spot where it was lifted from, and if it lands in the same pitch mark, it must be redropped. If you touch your ball when none of these cases apply, then you incur a one stroke penalty. If you move the ball, accidentally or on purpose, it's a one stroke penalty and you must replace the ball on the original spot. A tee is not the original spot unless it was on a tee when lifted.

In none of those cases are you ever allowed to put a tee under the ball the ball. That would ludicrous.
 
Fourputt said:
I have known one confirmed sandbagger, which is just another way of cheating. He was dealt with by the handicap committee, and disappeared quietly. I have reason to be suspicious of the 2-man team who won one flight in a non Men's Club tournament a couple of years ago, but no evidence to back up my suspicions. As a result, I simply mentioned it to the head pro (who runs this tournament) and suggested a different way of returning scorecards so that such an incident could never be repeated, if in fact it did happen as I suspect.
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Yes this happened at a big tournament my club holds annually last year. Two guys from out of town one was 34 and the other 31. The rules of the tournament state that max handicap is 30 so both of them had to play under their actual handicaps. The format was two days, first day 4 ball and second day stroke. They were leading by 1 shot (from me and my partner) on first day with a nett 57, entirely do able with handicaps like they had (I was 22 and my partner was 8) but on the second day pretty much everyone was handing in nett 68-72's (we had a 73 and 75) but these two guys both handed in low net 60's and proceeded to win by 19 shots! To win on the second day I sould have had to shoot even par!! In the end they walked away with nearly 10 grand worth of prizes. There was no proof they cheated but someone off a 30+ handicap can't play that well two days in a row at a big tournament. Nothing we could do about it though! I think this year the max handicaps are going to be dropped to 24 a piece!
 
Biggest form of cheating I've seen at my club involves handicaps. We called them sand baggers in bowling and I've heard that name mentioned in the golfing circles as well.

This particular cheater is beloved at the club and is everyone's friend, yet he robs them blind with his shenanigans. He will only post scores he thinks will help his handicap go higher. He must lose his scorecard when he shoots a round 10 shots under his handicap. When you run into at the bar, he had the lowest round of his life, yet you never see that score posted.

I played in a team event against a team he was on and it was handicapped. I had the lowest handicap of the group. I was sitting at a 6 at the time and the other players were 15-18. He was an 18. This joker didn't miss one green in regulation and hit every fairway but one for the nine holes we were paired together the first day. He did more of the same on the second day when we were paired together for another 9 holes.

The thing that irked me the most was him rubbing my nose in it. They were hottin and hollerin on every green after they holed out and just downright jerkoffs for both 9's we played against them. They got strokes on every hole and like I said, they didn't miss any greens. They beat us by 9 shots I think. I felt like wrapping my 9 iron around his throat, but I restrained myself.

This is the same guy that refuses to play in scratch events because those scores are recorded by the club and they stay on your handicap for a year.

It's cheaters like this that are costing the club entries in their events and frankly, I don't care. Several of us have told the club about it, but nothing has happened. I refuse to play in anymore handicap events until they get the system cleaned up.
 
I agree Biggsy... along these lines. Is it wrong that I am a bit excited that over the next 3-4 rounds, unless I start playing WAY better golf, my handicap will go up? I am losing 3 low scores. That being said, I put in every round I play so it is an honest handicap. Well I didn't put the one in I played in Mexico, with rented clubs, on an all you can drink course.
 
cheating, what have you seen

rbelbin said:
I agree Biggsy... along these lines. Is it wrong that I am a bit excited that over the next 3-4 rounds, unless I start playing WAY better golf, my handicap will go up? I am losing 3 low scores. That being said, I put in every round I play so it is an honest handicap. Well I didn't put the one in I played in Mexico, with rented clubs, on an all you can drink course.
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Not at all. I was just the opposite when I saw my scores creeping up and in turn my handicap did too. I'm playing and practicing more but my scores are getting worse. Goofy game.
 
bama said:
I have seen it all, but the one I hate most....that is probably done the most....is improving ones lie.
I see person after person after person reach up and pull that ball on a little tuft of grass to get better 3W contact....

That is just a false sense of thinking you're good.
I would love to see those people play it as it lies for an entire 18 holes....
Me thinks there score would go up 4-5 strokes....
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I have a buddy who always does this too.I usually ask him if he wants a tee.I like playing it where it lies just to be able to make the shot or not but know I tried.How can you guage if you're getting better if you don't try the shot you're left with.
 
Honestly- never. In a fun game I don't care what anyone else does so I don't really pay attention. I am only 'competing' against what I socred the last time, not who I am playing with. It's about having a great morning and hopfully making a few memorable shots to talk about in the clubhouse later.

In a more serious game - either a scramble for prizes or buck a hole type thing- I have never seen anyone I played with 'cheat'. But then I am usually playing with 90-100+ scoring players, maybe the pressure to 'cheat' gets greater the better your handicap gets? Or maybe its just the really competitive folks?
 
TwoSolitudes said:
In a more serious game - either a scramble for prizes or buck a hole type thing- I have never seen anyone I played with 'cheat'. But then I am usually playing with 90-100+ scoring players, maybe the pressure to 'cheat' gets greater the better your handicap gets? Or maybe its just the really competitive folks?
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Not so. Usually just the opposite. I find that the better player usually has a better understanding of the rules and more respect for the game when he is in a competition. The guys I've known like that are competitive, but they want to win fairly. The only sandbaggers I've known or suspected are all mid handicappers... in the 12-18 range, witha few who post higher caps but shoot tournament scores in that range.

Also, sandbaggers tend to not hang in the clubhouse around after a tournament round... they return the card, then disappear. A player who too often shoots under his normal scores in tournaments, then doesn't stick around to be congratulated is suspicious. It isn't evidence of shenanigans, but it is suspicious.
 
It's funny that this thread is highlighting some things we all see people do when they play golf. I played in a member-member this weekend and on the 4th hole of the 1st round I had a putt from about 12 feet for birdie, as I approached the ball to hit it I was a bit nervous and when I put my putter behind the ball to line it up I moved the ball about a half an inch. No one saw it and I backed away and called a penalty on myself. The guys we were playing with said don't worry about it no one saw it move and I reminded them that I saw it move and to avoid bad Karma I refused to not call that penalty. So I made bogey on what would have been my par tap in. I wanted a clear conscious for the round and my putting was less than spectacular. We ended up in a 6 way tie in our flight for second place going into sunday's round and that one shot was really starting to weigh on my mind as we came down the stretch. I knew the sandbagging team in our flight had 1st place rapped up but I knew we could beat the other 6 teams for 2nd place.

The guys who we were paired with on Sunday had a 3 shot lead going into the back 9 but on a hole on the front nine I watched one of them improve his lie from under a tree. They still made bogey on the hole but I told my cousin Karma would get them to not say anything. So with 3 holes to go and being down 2 strokes we finished birdie, bogey, par to beat them by 1 shot after the cheater 3 putted from 4 feet on 17 as I got on and 2 putted on the par 3 to save a bogey on what could have been a disasterous hole. Then on 18 after a topped drive and my partner hitting into the hazard I hit a huge cut around trees from 200 without being able to see the green. I was 20 feet away from the hole on what was probably the hardest shot I have ever had to hit since it was uphill, 200 yards away without being able to see my target because of the trees on the 90 degree dogleg. We ended up winning 2nd place in our flight coming in at 4 over par but only 3 shots from winning the flight but I know had I not called that penalty stroke on myself Saturday that somewhere those incredible shots I made on the last two holes to beat our partners would not have happened because golf is a game of karma.
 
Played Troon North in Scottsdale on Vacation. As a single they put me with a 3sum and we were the first 4sum off on the Monument course. These guys wanted to play the back tees, so I did. The guy I rode was really nice, good golfer, good natured. He and I counted everything. He kept score. After each hole he would ask the other players what they got. It was always, Bogey, or Double sometimes par or Bird when they were always 2 - 3 strokes over par.

My partner shot a legit 87, I shot a legit 103. The other 2 players shot an 80 and an 81. My partner summed it up. "We are not playing tournament golf. It's for fun. We all know that their score is fudge, but we are friends and do not argue at golf ever."

When I play to practice, I will hit a second ball, sometimes from the same bad lie, re putt, improve a lie here and there. I never gamble, but when I am playing serious golf and my partners are gambling, I play by all the rules. It's only cheating if you are all playing by the rules.

I have a friend who is a good golfer. When he plays there will be a time when he hits a bad drive. That is also the time he, and he a lone, determines the Mulligan rules.
 
Oh, great topic! This is true, believe it or not! My buddy, Steve, is super, super competitive. He's always been that way. We used to get in fist fights on the football field back in the day. However, this takes the cake from what I've seen from him.

We (Steve, me, and another guy) usually go out to the local course on Saturdays. The fourth hole is about 500 or so. So another friend and I will usually outdrive Steve by quite a bit. I'll hit it 250 and my buddy will hit it about the same, but Steve might hit it like 220, if lucky. So we'll leave Steve behind and go toward our balls, which are about thirty yards away from his ball. So we're about 250 from the pin; Steve's about 280-300. I'll use a three iron to get closer. My buddy will hit a hybrid to get it closer too. Steve can't hit long irons, fairway woods, or hybrids at all. So he's in trouble, right? Usually... until he does this...

Steve whacks a three wood 200 yards in the air. What the hell? That's so unlike him. Then, we realize what happened. When my buddy and I were going towards our balls, Steve put a freaking tee in the ground and teed his ball up,so the three wood would be an easy shot for him. He did this from the rough.

Wow.
 
willybilly said:
Oh, great topic! This is true, believe it or not! My buddy, Steve, is super, super competitive. He's always been that way. We used to get in fist fights on the football field back in the day. However, this takes the cake from what I've seen from him.

We (Steve, me, and another guy) usually go out to the local course on Saturdays. The fourth hole is about 500 or so. So another friend and I will usually outdrive Steve by quite a bit. I'll hit it 250 and my buddy will hit it about the same, but Steve might hit it like 220, if lucky. So we'll leave Steve behind and go toward our balls, which are about thirty yards away from his ball. So we're about 250 from the pin; Steve's about 280-300. I'll use a three iron to get closer. My buddy will hit a hybrid to get it closer too. Steve can't hit long irons, fairway woods, or hybrids at all. So he's in trouble, right? Usually... until he does this...

Steve whacks a three wood 200 yards in the air. What the hell? That's so unlike him. Then, we realize what happened. When my buddy and I were going towards our balls, Steve put a freaking tee in the ground and teed his ball up,so the three wood would be an easy shot for him. He did this from the rough.

Wow.
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LOL!! Did he say anything about it?
 
guys that are overly competative fudge their scores...u saw them hit 4 shots before the green and 3 putt, then they tell u they hit a 5..
 
I used to play with two of these clowns and then they question your score and get pissed if you ask about theirs! no more though I golf to have fun not babysit

maddog said:
guys that are overly competative fudge their scores...u saw them hit 4 shots before the green and 3 putt, then they tell u they hit a 5..
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i was playing with a twosome who was betting and one guy took 3 shots to get to our tee shots but the other guy stepped on his ball in the fairway giving him a plugged lie
 
aca247 said:
i was playing with a twosome who was betting and one guy took 3 shots to get to our tee shots but the other guy stepped on his ball in the fairway giving him a plugged lie
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lmao...

my buddy would intentionally run over our balls with the golf cart
 
aca247 said:
i was playing with a twosome who was betting and one guy took 3 shots to get to our tee shots but the other guy stepped on his ball in the fairway giving him a plugged lie
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lmao, im gonna try this with my dad, then maybe ill beat him :p
 
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