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Shaft pondering from a shaft idiot...

Nippon Shafts
SouthernShred

SouthernShred

'16 Grandaddy Champ - Team Unity
Joined
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I've never had that much technical knowledge about shafts until I got back into the game a while back.

I was fit into a certain driver shaft at The Grandaddy despite having a horrible, horrible swing that day. My swing has improved a good bit since both in tempo and plane.

I am playing a Diamana D+ 60 X flex in my Epic SZ and I also have a Diamana BF 60 X. My observation with the Whiteboard is that I like a lot with a couple of exceptions.

1. Feel...I'm not sure if the word is harsh or "boardy" as I've yet to see what that means in the THP shaft nerd dictionary but it just doesn't feel as smooth as some of the other shafts I've tried.

2. Weight - that's easily resolved by bumping up 10g.

3. I'm not sure what trajectory I should be looking for. I get a fairly high trajectory with this but thankfully it keeps going.

The BF feels better but side to side dispersion is worse and the ball seems to drop out of the air at a certain point leaving my shots significantly shorter than the D+.

What else have I tried?

I tried a Matrix 75M4 X in the Superstore and the feel was fantastic and side to side dispersion was pretty good. Pretty good carry and 8-10 yards of rollout on the monitor.

I haven't tried but have been curious about the HZRDUS Black.

Anything else I should be looking at? Swing speed is 120ish with quite a bit of lag, fairly quick tempo.

Ultimately, I'm going to game the Whiteboard unless I find something better...I've hit some stupid good drives with it, I just wish it felt better.
 
The whiteboard has been a solid shaft for me, but definitely preferred the heavier 70+ gram version. I didn't really find it boardy, but definitely stout. That matrix also sounds like it was a pretty good fit for your swing.
 
Jaymo37 said:
The whiteboard has been a solid shaft for me, but definitely preferred the heavier 70+ gram version. I didn't really find it boardy, but definitely stout. That matrix also sounds like it was a pretty good fit for your swing.
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I may try to find a 70 and see how that feels
 
have you tried hzrdus yellow? if you're looking for a smoother feeling shaft, yellow will probably feel better than black.

i'm a big fan of the rogue, too. rogue silver 70 might be a good one to try.

also consider aldila tour green. should bring flight down a little but also feel good.
 
c.a.eleric said:
have you tried hzrdus yellow? if you're looking for a smoother feeling shaft, yellow will probably feel better than black.

i'm a big fan of the rogue, too. rogue silver 70 might be a good one to try.

also consider aldila tour green. should bring flight down a little but also feel good.
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This is a slippery slope, paved with an empty PayPal account isn't it?
 
I do have a Rogue Silver 60 X sitting in the garage if you want to do some experimentating. The Rogue Silver 60 in X flex is 72g, and 3.1 tq.
 
SouthernShred said:
Golf is a slippery slope, paved with an empty PayPal account isn't it?
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fify

year before last i bought like 5 or 6 shafts trying to find the perfect one for me. no luck. then i bought a new head and bought another 5 shafts to try, and ended up with a real winner in the rogue. but nothing will ever live up to the standard project x set with my handcrafted experience shaft.
 
c.a.eleric said:
fify

year before last i bought like 5 or 6 shafts trying to find the perfect one for me. no luck. then i bought a new head and bought another 5 shafts to try, and ended up with a real winner in the rogue. but nothing will ever live up to the standard project x set with my handcrafted experience shaft.
Click to expand...

I'd love to get into the Handcrafted event. I love my iron shafts, they are perfect. The driver is a difficult club for me and am honestly a little frustrated I wasn't hitting it worth a crap at ECPC.
 
I've played the Whiteboard, HZRDUS Black, Rogue I/O and Black Tie. Preferred the HZRDUS over anything really, with the Rogue I/O the only other even close. All were in the 60g range (closer to 70 than 60 though).

For your SS, I'd go with a 70g range HZRDUS Black 6.5. Definitely an upgrade from the Whiteboard and you won't have to ponder any longer.
 
It sounds like you need a heavier x-flex shaft with more torque. The older model black ties 7M3 in X-Stiff are 73 grams, low launch, low spin, but have 3.8* of torque. That would probably give you the benefits of the 75M4 but with a slightly different feel.

I average around 116 mph on Trackman and have a quick tempo and hard transition. I played a D+ White 70x for a while and while I never thought it felt harsh or boardy it was a bad fit for me due to excessive spin. The Black Tie lines have done a much better job for me.

Another great option to try would be the T1100, but it may feel boardy to you. I didn't find it to feel that way and it produced some great numbers for me in the 70 gram X flex with a TM 440 M1, but it's just so expensive for a few yards of carry over what I have now.
 
Will do buddy
 
SouthernShred said:
I've never had that much technical knowledge about shafts until I got back into the game a while back.

I was fit into a certain driver shaft at The Grandaddy despite having a horrible, horrible swing that day. My swing has improved a good bit since both in tempo and plane.

I am playing a Diamana D+ 60 X flex in my Epic SZ and I also have a Diamana BF 60 X. My observation with the Whiteboard is that I like a lot with a couple of exceptions.

1. Feel...I'm not sure if the word is harsh or "boardy" as I've yet to see what that means in the THP shaft nerd dictionary but it just doesn't feel as smooth as some of the other shafts I've tried.

2. Weight - that's easily resolved by bumping up 10g.

3. I'm not sure what trajectory I should be looking for. I get a fairly high trajectory with this but thankfully it keeps going.

The BF feels better but side to side dispersion is worse and the ball seems to drop out of the air at a certain point leaving my shots significantly shorter than the D+.

What else have I tried?

I tried a Matrix 75M4 X in the Superstore and the feel was fantastic and side to side dispersion was pretty good. Pretty good carry and 8-10 yards of rollout on the monitor.

I haven't tried but have been curious about the HZRDUS Black.

Anything else I should be looking at? Swing speed is 120ish with quite a bit of lag, fairly quick tempo.

Ultimately, I'm going to game the Whiteboard unless I find something better...I've hit some stupid good drives with it, I just wish it felt better.
Click to expand...

Played Diamana S+, HZRDS, and Matrix 70MB all several times and have them all in my garage which is where they will stay.

My unprofessional suggestion...log on to eBay and spend 50 bucks on a Fujikura Motore F3 70x.
 
I've got both the D+ 70 and BF 70, and am now really liking the HZRDUS red. I felt like I needed a stiffer flex in the BF so I went with that in the red. Dispersion is really good. But you also swing faster so the 6.5 might not be enough for you. The black might fit a little better though it will bring launch down a little and feel more stout.
 
Tadashi70 said:
@Southernshred watch and listen

https://youtu.be/0zyaXlACLPk
Click to expand...

I appreciate the attempt at humor in this video, but Danny Le of UST and Jamie Pipes (formerly with UST and recently with Ben Hogan) do a much better job at actually explaining torque in this video:



Higher torque equates to a "softer" feel. Lower torque equates to "boardy" or even harsh to some. The D+ 60x has 3.5* of torque. So a good starting point would be to test shafts in the weight/flex you want with more/higher torque (like say 4*).

I was given the opportunity to test the same shaft in the VTS line in different torque values and found that too low of torque cost me distance. Too high cost me dispersion. So far I prefer something in the middle (3-3.5*).
 
There is no industry standard in torque testing. I urge you to listen to the THP radio shows with Danny Le from UST, Don Brown from Project X and Tom Deshiell from Matrix. All 3 can be found on the home page and all have slightly different takes on it that say something similar.
 
-CRW- said:
I appreciate the attempt at humor in this video, but Danny Le of UST and Jamie Pipes (formerly with UST and recently with Ben Hogan) do a much better job at actually explaining torque in this video:



Higher torque equates to a "softer" feel. Lower torque equates to "boardy" or even harsh to some. The D+ 60x has 3.5* of torque. So a good starting point would be to test shafts in the weight/flex you want with more/higher torque (like say 4*).

I was given the opportunity to test the same shaft in the VTS line in different torque values and found that too low of torque cost me distance. Too high cost me dispersion. So far I prefer something in the middle (3-3.5*).
Click to expand...


I agree with a lot of what you said, but I don't think that it is as simple as merely equating high/low torque to soft or boardy feel. IMO the G7 "feels softer" than an ozik black tie or rogue silver i/o (both of similar weights and flex) yet the torque is slightly lower. What do you think causes this? (I'm genuinely asking)
 
I should have included the word "generally" as there are always exceptions. I definitely think individual perception comes into play. For example, the OP said he thought the D+ feels boardy and I think it feels and plays a little soft - and he swings a few mph faster than me.

Another factor could be the setup with the G7 versus the others such as swing weight if the heads were the same. Or head weight alone if different heads. The way the weight is distributed plays a roll as well.
 
JB said:
There is no industry standard in torque testing. I urge you to listen to the THP radio shows with Danny Le from UST, Don Brown from Project X and Tom Deshiell from Matrix. All 3 can be found on the home page and all have slightly different takes on it that say something similar.
Click to expand...

While there is no technical standard the idea and testing is pretty basic. Either the shaft is more or less resistant to twisting.

Just about every test I've ever seen, including the info from UST, shows that it absolutely makes a difference. That isn't to say/suggest any hard lines regarding what should fit who, but it definitely shows that the end user needs to do some testing and/or get properly fit and preferably by someone who isn't ignorant to the concept.
 
JB said:
There is no industry standard in torque testing. I urge you to listen to the THP radio shows with Danny Le from UST, Don Brown from Project X and Tom Deshiell from Matrix. All 3 can be found on the home page and all have slightly different takes on it that say something similar.
Click to expand...

i think the biggest takeaway for me was how far down the totem pole torque is when choosing the right shaft. and the right shaft is so much about feel, you have to hit it and in the head you're going to end up with. to me that's the only true way to know.
 
-CRW- said:
I should have included the word "generally" as there are always exceptions. I definitely think individual perception comes into play. For example, the OP said he thought the D+ feels boardy and I think it feels and plays a little soft - and he swings a few mph faster than me.
Click to expand...

I could be using the wrong terminology for what it's worth. I don't dig the feel as the head approaches impact...maybe what I'm trying to describe is kick.

I apologize, I'm just now exploring shafts
 
c.a.eleric said:
i think the biggest takeaway for me was how far down the totem pole torque is when choosing the right shaft. and the right shaft is so much about feel, you have to hit it and in the head you're going to end up with. to me that's the only true way to know.
Click to expand...

I used to think that way too until I tested the VTS shafts. It was definitely eye opening. I thought I needed like 2* of torque due to my swing speed/transition. I mean I played X7 shafts and still carried my PW around 140 yards with a players iron head. But 2* of torque in a wood cost me a ton of distance. I normally carry my 3 wood 250 (up to 270 total) and had shots that only went 180-190 with a very low torque wood shaft. The absolute best was 230 total.

I think it ends up being low on the totem pole for most because they hit shafts and find one that gives them the most distance without really putting any thought into why that shaft might be producing distance over similar weight/flex shafts. There is a fitting company near me that actually use shaft profiles and can really start to limit shafts down once they find what sort of profile the golfer fits into.
 
What about the new fujikura atmos shafts.
 
-CRW- said:
I used to think that way too until I tested the VTS shafts. It was definitely eye opening. I thought I needed like 2* of torque due to my swing speed/transition. I mean I played X7 shafts and still carried my PW around 140 yards with a players iron head. But 2* of torque in a wood cost me a ton of distance. I normally carry my 3 wood 250 (up to 270 total) and had shots that only went 180-190 with a very low torque wood shaft. The absolute best was 230 total.

I think it ends up being low on the totem pole for most because they hit shafts and find one that gives them the most distance without really putting any thought into why that shaft might be producing distance over similar weight/flex shafts. There is a fitting company near me that actually use shaft profiles and can really start to limit shafts down once they find what sort of profile the golfer fits into.
Click to expand...

i don't agree based on my own experience. the testing you did sounds really cool and fun and i'm glad you found what you work the best with. a slower swing speed, lower launch, lower spin player won't benefit as much from a low/low profile shaft that is too heavy but has the right amount of torque. the torque will matter; it's certainly not irrelevant; but get the weight right, get the tip stiffness right, get the spin right, get the bend point right, then worry about the torque. i don't think it makes sense to put torque ahead of anything else in the list of characteristics that matter when picking the right shaft.
 
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