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Driver: Desperate for advice - top of swing through impact ....

tr561

tr561

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Guys, been working on this for a year and just can't get it. I feel my address and take away through the top are decent. I've also been practicing drive the knee towards ball like was mentioned in here. BUT a few things that are glaring is my SPINE ANGLE loss near impact as well as the FACE of the club is not where it needs to be for consistent golf. When i practice staying at same angle at impact as i do at address (i'm not practicing it in these pics below), my mind just thinks total loss of power because hands can't extend, plus i will lose balance and fall forward after impact. Help, Help Help ! (Also, if you see anything else that is a problem in any part of swing go ahead and shoot)


swing 1.jpg

swing 2.jpg
 
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Take a look at frame 6 or top right of second set of pics. You have an early release. Those arms should not be straight at this point. I feel that from frame 5 to 6 you aren't pulling that right elbow down to the right hip pocket as you rotate through. Your arms are a bit separated. I like the lower body movement but that club needs to drop down to the right hip. Not behind it but even with it. Drive the right knee, hold the back to the target and drop the hands or but of club to right hips and rotate through to the left.
 
Thank you very much. Yes, frame 6 (right before it and right after it are the problem).
 
Tadashi70 said:
Take a look at frame 6 or top right of second set of pics. You have an early release. Those arms should not be straight at this point. I feel that from frame 5 to 6 you aren't pulling that right elbow down to the right hip pocket as you rotate through. Your arms are a bit separated. I like the lower body movement but that club needs to drop down to the right hip. Not behind it but even with it. Drive the right knee, hold the back to the target and drop the hands or but of club to right hips and rotate through to the left.
Click to expand...

" Your arms are a bit separated" - Frame 5 ??? Or separated out away from my body in Frame 6 ???

"hold the back to the target" - This is so hard to commit to because it just feels so unnatural, but yep :)
 
Tadashi70 said:
Take a look at frame 6 or top right of second set of pics. You have an early release. Those arms should not be straight at this point. I feel that from frame 5 to 6 you aren't pulling that right elbow down to the right hip pocket as you rotate through. Your arms are a bit separated. I like the lower body movement but that club needs to drop down to the right hip. Not behind it but even with it. Drive the right knee, hold the back to the target and drop the hands or but of club to right hips and rotate through to the left.
Click to expand...

Will driving that right elbow towards the back pocker/hip naturally keep the spine angle in the right place through the ball ? As you can see, from frame 5 into frame 6, the arms just separate from the body. I almost feel like the head cover under the armpit drill might help.
 
tr561 said:
Will driving that right elbow towards the back pocker/hip naturally keep the spine angle in the right place through the ball ? As you can see, from frame 5 into frame 6, the arms just separate from the body. I almost feel like the head cover under the armpit drill might help.
Click to expand...

Your loss of spin angle is due to your arms not operating correctly. By driving the right elbow down to the hip your arms will be a better position to swing down the line which should allow for the maintaining of the spine angle.

The head cover under the arm pit will change the complexion of your golf swing. I do not advise it.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Your loss of spin angle is due to your arms not operating correctly. By driving the right elbow down to the hip your arms will be a better position to swing down the line which should allow for the maintaining of the spine angle.

The head cover under the arm pit will change the complexion of your golf swing. I do not advise it.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much again. I do two butt of the club into hip moves at address, each and every time I drive the ball, but it doesn't quite happen when I let it rip. I will continue to practice.
 
I can't believe no one else noticed! Your swing is all upper body. No hip turn. Knees stay in the same position from address to impact. Follow through looks good but the ball is already gone by then. You get no power from your waist on down which makes you have to swing so hard to get any distance that you swing out of your shoes. At the top of your back swing your right knee should be strait and your belt buckle should be facing away from your target.

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hawkirolla said:
I can't believe no one else noticed! Your swing is all upper body. No hip turn. Knees stay in the same position from address to impact. Follow through looks good but the ball is already gone by then. You get no power from your waist on down which makes you have to swing so hard to get any distance that you swing out of your shoes. At the top of your back swing your right knee should be strait and your belt buckle should be facing away from your target.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I have literally never heard that before. That doesn't sound ideal at all.
 
I think some of what you said is definitely true, I probably need to turn my right hip a little more on the take away. I've just been so cognizant about trying to keep the lower body still, that i'm not rotating enough on the take away. So yes, I need to use more leg action. But the right leg is NOT supposed to be locked in a straight position at the top of a backswing.
 
blugold said:
I have literally never heard that before. That doesn't sound ideal at all.
Click to expand...

you'll see a move like this in a centered pivot swing like stack and tilt. the straightening of the rear leg is meant to assist a full turn behind the ball.


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I took frame 4, 5 and 7 and drew an line across your shoulder to show the angle of your shoulder (I have no idea how to post it to show you, but I have the pic saved if you want it). The angle is virtually identical throughout your swing. To Tadashi70's point (and I had this issue) the way I explained it to myself is to drive/turn my shoulder down (in your case your right shoulder). This means the angle of your shoulders on the down swing should be steeper (pointing more towards the ball) then in the back swing. Or as Tadashi70 put it, drive your right elbow down. You might be what I call "to Handzy" where you allow your hands to lead the swing causing the rest of your body to not turn (This causes your shoulders to remain on the same plane in from back swing to down swing). The way my brain was wired was to focus in my drills to drive my trail shoulder down (Not my elbow), this made me not think about any part of my arms. When I tried to focus on my elbow driving down, my shoulders didn't turn. In the end, the result is the same....you just need to figure out how your brain will be wired to train this.
 
JuMPy said:
I took frame 4, 5 and 7 and drew an line across your shoulder to show the angle of your shoulder (I have no idea how to post it to show you, but I have the pic saved if you want it). The angle is virtually identical throughout your swing. To Tadashi70's point (and I had this issue) the way I explained it to myself is to drive/turn my shoulder down (in your case your right shoulder). This means the angle of your shoulders on the down swing should be steeper (pointing more towards the ball) then in the back swing. Or as Tadashi70 put it, drive your right elbow down. You might be what I call "to Handzy" where you allow your hands to lead the swing causing the rest of your body to not turn (This causes your shoulders to remain on the same plane in from back swing to down swing). The way my brain was wired was to focus in my drills to drive my trail shoulder down (Not my elbow), this made me not think about any part of my arms. When I tried to focus on my elbow driving down, my shoulders didn't turn. In the end, the result is the same....you just need to figure out how your brain will be wired to train this.
Click to expand...

would love to see the pic if not too hard to send/post.
 
Your hips appear to be going toward the ball instead of rotating toward the target. If you draw a vertical line down your backside at the top of your backswing (two white dots in the photo would be to the right of the line), then you start the down swing you would see the white dots would be to the left of the imaginary vertical line. This suggest you are moving toward the ball vs. rotating toward the target. This could prevent a good in/out swing path (I assume your typical flight path is a fade/slice) and certainly prevents maintaining spine angle.

Power is generated from loading the lower half and a "quick" release of the wrist hinge. Long ball hitters are very good at getting extension in the back swing, maximizing rotation, then unloading the lower half and getting to the ball before the trail arm is fully extended and accelerating through the ball to reach full extension/rotation.
 
JuMPy said:
I took frame 4, 5 and 7 and drew an line across your shoulder to show the angle of your shoulder (I have no idea how to post it to show you, but I have the pic saved if you want it). The angle is virtually identical throughout your swing. To Tadashi70's point (and I had this issue) the way I explained it to myself is to drive/turn my shoulder down (in your case your right shoulder). This means the angle of your shoulders on the down swing should be steeper (pointing more towards the ball) then in the back swing. Or as Tadashi70 put it, drive your right elbow down. You might be what I call "to Handzy" where you allow your hands to lead the swing causing the rest of your body to not turn (This causes your shoulders to remain on the same plane in from back swing to down swing). The way my brain was wired was to focus in my drills to drive my trail shoulder down (Not my elbow), this made me not think about any part of my arms. When I tried to focus on my elbow driving down, my shoulders didn't turn. In the end, the result is the same....you just need to figure out how your brain will be wired to train this.

https://perfectgolfswingreview.net/SneadShoulderTurnAngle.jpg
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct about the shoulder point. It's just feels like the ball isn't going to go anywhere near the fairway and just go straight up in the air & right.
 
Lmart009 said:
Your hips appear to be going toward the ball instead of rotating toward the target. If you draw a vertical line down your backside at the top of your backswing (two white dots in the photo would be to the right of the line), then you start the down swing you would see the white dots would be to the left of the imaginary vertical line. This suggest you are moving toward the ball vs. rotating toward the target. This could prevent a good in/out swing path (I assume your typical flight path is a fade/slice) and certainly prevents maintaining spine angle.

Power is generated from loading the lower half and a "quick" release of the wrist hinge. Long ball hitters are very good at getting extension in the back swing, maximizing rotation, then unloading the lower half and getting to the ball before the trail arm is fully extended and accelerating through the ball to reach full extension/rotation.
Click to expand...


I actually move away from the ball, not towards the ball on the down swing. Hence the arms getting out and extended and not a closed trail arm. My head/neck/spine move from right to left at the last minute in the picture above.
 
Attached is what I am describing...
Address.jpg
AlmostImpact.jpg


You lose spine angle as your lower half comes toward the ball vs. rotating toward the target. I would guess from a front view, your head is probably higher at impact than address.
 
I see what you are saying, but maybe my lower half is going towards the ball and my upper part of spine/neck is moving away from it. There is no doubt my upper area and head are moving away from the ball as my hands wrongly extend at impact.
 
tr561 said:
I actually move away from the ball, not towards the ball on the down swing. Hence the arms getting out and extended and not a closed trail arm. My head/neck/spine move from right to left at the last minute in the picture above.
Click to expand...

You're upper body moves away, but your lower body moves towards the ball. It's part of the early extension fault, and is the body's response to keep you in balance.

Something that helps me achieve what Tadashi suggested is to think about the hands moving on one circle and the club head moving on another. In other words, your hands are on a track and should be close to the same distance from the body at impact that they where at address. Your's are further away from the body and higher up than they were at address - lifting the handle is another part of the early extension fault. Sometimes while practicing I think on the downswing, "handle in, club head out".
 
tr561 said:
I see what you are saying, but maybe my lower half is going towards the ball and my upper part of spine/neck is moving away from it. There is no doubt my upper area and head are moving away from the ball as my hands wrongly extend at impact.
Click to expand...

I had the same issue and my PGA pro had me put a folding chair behind me at address, so it was lightly touching my backside. Then focus on not losing contact between my backside and the chair through the swing. There is a rotation of full back side contact, right backside contact, full backside contact, left backside contact as the swing is made. If you are not using a club, then you can do something similar in a door way, using a countertop, etc...

Once I was better at maintaining contact with my backside, my spine angle and swing path instantly improved, because the hands now had more room between my lower half and the ball to "clear".
 
Lmart009 said:
I had the same issue and my PGA pro had me put a folding chair behind me at address, so it was lightly touching my backside. Then focus on not losing contact between my backside and the chair through the swing. There is a rotation of full back side contact, right backside contact, full backside contact, left backside contact as the swing is made. If you are not using a club, then you can do something similar in a door way, using a countertop, etc...

Once I was better at maintaining contact with my backside, my spine angle and swing path instantly improved, because the hands now had more room between my lower half and the ball to "clear".
Click to expand...

This right here I think is key thing to practice. I've heard it before quite a bit. Some teachers say kick the butt out but that tends to cause a straight right leg at impact
 
Lmart009 said:
Attached is what I am describing...
View attachment 27841
View attachment 27842


You lose spine angle as your lower half comes toward the ball vs. rotating toward the target. I would guess from a front view, your head is probably higher at impact than address.
Click to expand...

That's at least 4 inches of movement of rear end towards the ball. Damn
 
No one said to lock your right leg. You start out with both knees bent and flexed at address. In your back swing shoulders and HIPS should rotate. Your hips don't nor can they when you keep your knees in the same position you had at address. Your right knee must straighten and your left knee flex backwards to get anywhere close to a 45 degree hip turn. Some of the old schoolers, Hogan, Palmer and Nicklaus even raised the left heel to make the hip turn easier. The position of the knees in the back swing should be the opposite, nearly a mirror image, of their position in the follow thru. Weight centered at address to back heel in back swing shifting to front heel in follow thru.

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hawkirolla said:
No one said to lock your right leg. You start out with both knees bent and flexed at address. In your back swing shoulders and HIPS should rotate. Your hips don't nor can they when you keep your knees in the same position you had at address. Your right knee must straighten and your left knee flex backwards to get anywhere close to a 45 degree hip turn. Some of the old schoolers, Hogan, Palmer and Nicklaus even raised the left heel to make the hip turn easier. The position of the knees in the back swing should be the opposite, nearly a mirror image, of their position in the follow thru. Weight centered at address to back heel in back swing shifting to front heel in follow thru.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This helps. I will work on it too.
 
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