Long Irons vs Hybrids - Alternate Shots

[Colt]

I also have a sincere question:

For those who feel that hybrids are penalizing or unforgiving for misses laterally from the sweet spot, do you feel the same way about fairway woods? I ask because it was my understanding that the function of the face designs should be similar.

Yes. It's why I don't have a fairway wood. I go from driver to 19* hybrid to 4i. I can honestly say that I'm more comfortable standing over my driver on a tight fairway than either a hybrid or a fairway wood.

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[Tadashi70]

I'm not sure why I'm still in this thread but let's suppose for a minute you make contact with a square club face. This is with the hybrid or iron, this is ideal, correct?! Now that same square club face strikes the ball on the toe with both club or the heel. Which will be more forgiving? Which will leave you a better next shot?

Now take that same club face and make contact with an open face on the toe. Which club will have better results? The same holds true for a closed face and off the heel, what will give better results?

My point is this, golf clubs are made and there with square faces. If this is not the case the ball could go any where and I believe with improper face position and a sub par swing the results are magnifies with the hybrid. And I can see why some like irons better. But if these same folks (generalization) had a square club face more often then not, the hybrid will win out.

 

[Damaikis]

Part of the science that makes hybrids more forgiving distance-wise also shows why they are less forgiving in terms of lateral movement. Higher ball speed means that it will go further off-line than an iron with lower ball speed. That's physics.

As for my personal take, I hit hybrids much, much better than long irons. But I will never game a hybrid other than the one in my bag now. So once that's out, they're gone for good because I hate hitting hybrids. It's not nearly as much fun for me as swinging a long iron is, so I'd rather play long irons.

 

[Hawk]

You should expand on that first sentence a bit Damaikis. In think your missing two very big factors in MOI and the benefits of bulge.

 

[Hawk]

Sorry, I should have said first paragraph.

 

[T2GRN18]

I've only ever owned one hybrid. It worked well for me, but I honestly bought the wrong loft. So I played it forward to a kid on Matt's golf team. I will end up with another at some point. Butnireally enjoy hitting a long iron. That being said, I don't like it when I miss with it. The distance loss is staggering at times. For that reason alone I can see another hybrid earning a spot in the bag. But further research will be done before I take the plunge again.

 

[Tadashi70]

Part of the science that makes hybrids more forgiving distance-wise also shows why they are less forgiving in terms of lateral movement. Higher ball speed means that it will go further off-line than an iron with lower ball speed. That's physics.

As for my personal take, I hit hybrids much, much better than long irons. But I will never game a hybrid other than the one in my bag now. So once that's out, they're gone for good because I hate hitting hybrids. It's not nearly as much fun for me as swinging a long iron is, so I'd rather play long irons.

I'm not going to touch the first paragraph but the second is just plain silly. You hit your hybrid well but hate it. It's more fun to swing a long iron that you can't hit. Interesting line of thinking.

 

[rtparty]

Major skim alert!

I recently had this discussion with some VERY knowledgeable individuals and came away with a new outlook on hybrids.

Mine is no longer in the bag and I don't think I'll ever put one back in. IIRC, hybrids were brought to America because they were such a huge success in the Asian market first. The inventor of one hybrid admitted it was the worst designed club and all people would ever do is hook them.

That fit right in for me as my miss is always a snap hook with a hybrid. It is the one club I can aim way right and know I'll get a huge draw out of. The problem is that the draw is uncontrollable and unplayable.

I won't mention names or companies in case I misunderstood.

To Freddie's point: he is right on IMO though. An open face or closed face with any club will create less than ideal results. Being square at impact is the ideal swing and something all of us should be striving for. We shouldn't be looking for band aids to help fix a crappy swing.

 

[rollin]

To Freddie's point: he is right on IMO though. An open face or closed face with any club will create less than ideal results. Being square at impact is the ideal swing and something all of us should be striving for. We shouldn't be looking for band aids to help fix a crappy swing.

well that's a bit much. I don't think anything is fixing a crap swing. One does need to able to make decent strikes. I think most people know that. But things do help for the slight miss hit and not so well rounded or consistent ball striker imo. Why shouldn't one take advantage of such things if they help him enjoy the game better. And not everyone at all is capable of fixing their swing so easily past a certain point for very many reasons including time and money. If that was the case we'd all be single digit players.

 

[goalie]

Major skim alert!

I recently had this discussion with some VERY knowledgeable individuals and came away with a new outlook on hybrids.

Mine is no longer in the bag and I don't think I'll ever put one back in. IIRC, hybrids were brought to America because they were such a huge success in the Asian market first. The inventor of one hybrid admitted it was the worst designed club and all people would ever do is hook them.

So, all the guys on the PGA tour using them just hook them OB every shot, but keep them in the bag at a rate of well over 50% of touring pros?

 

[DufferToo]

Of course it's marketing. The claims do have to be substantiated though, which is why when you see an RBZ commercial that says it's longer, there's almost always fine print at the bottom telling you what the comparison club used was. Often when we hear people rail against marketing claims, it's in a very negative context as though to imply fraud or conspiracy.

Marketing (in the golf context) is supposed to generate interest in clubs. Golfers (and our egos) are the ones seeking more distance, accuracy, and ease of use, so those are the gains that the manufacturers build around when designing clubs. Of course they'll also market to those. I think that it's the consumer's responsibility to do their own due diligence to make sure that the club they're interested in works for them. If that's a long iron, great. If it's a hybrid, fantastic!

Hybrids are what happen to work for me, and the logic behind why they work for me is sound.

I agree, the OEMs are in the business to make money which in turn keeps their stockholders happy (and the CEOs employed). I don't think that any of the OEMs are committing fraud when they market what the product is capable of. It is definitely the consumer's responsibility to determine what works for them and as hard as it is to admit it, the lack of results are probably more indian than arrow (YMMV).

 

[rtparty]

So, all the guys on the PGA tour using them just hook them OB every shot, but keep them in the bag at a rate of well over 50% of touring pros?

The 1% don't apply to most things we ever discuss on here.

Some people smoke hybrids and love them, some people hit them crappy but believe they will one day hit them well because it's a hybrid, and others will never hit them well.

All I did was quote what the designer of one of the biggest hybrids ever designed said.

I've yet to find one that I like but that is me and my swing.

 

[Wake]

Major skim alert!

I recently had this discussion with some VERY knowledgeable individuals and came away with a new outlook on hybrids.

Mine is no longer in the bag and I don't think I'll ever put one back in. IIRC, hybrids were brought to America because they were such a huge success in the Asian market first. The inventor of one hybrid admitted it was the worst designed club and all people would ever do is hook them.

That fit right in for me as my miss is always a snap hook with a hybrid. It is the one club I can aim way right and know I'll get a huge draw out of. The problem is that the draw is uncontrollable and unplayable.

I won't mention names or companies in case I misunderstood.

To Freddie's point: he is right on IMO though. An open face or closed face with any club will create less than ideal results. Being square at impact is the ideal swing and something all of us should be striving for. We shouldn't be looking for band aids to help fix a crappy swing.

Ryan I think I was present for the conversation you are referring to, and I think you misunderstood a little bit. He did say everything you said, but most of that is in reference to the OG hybrids, and I think he actually mentioned the hybrid you have in your signature as being one of the worst offenders. He did say there are still alot of draw biased hybrids out there, but I think he also mentioned that there are some out there that are no longer that way, even though he still doesn't prefer to play long irons himself.

 

[CharlieMoy]

From my perspective it makes no sense. 5 yards short or 30 yards short is no brainer. And when did you lose your thick skin. I made a statement and you replied.

I think hybrids are the easiest club to hit and hit well. As a teacher if you can hit one then I feel lessons are in order. The science alone behind a hybrid makes it easier to play. That being said those that can't hit them have convinced themselves of that and will do what they will. And you know what Colt, that is fine. If you feel long irons make you a better player, I can't take that way from you. But I can sure feel it makes no sense.

30 yards short is often better than 30 yards left or 30 yards right. The hybrid face is built to add spin on miss hits so balls will carry the most distance. But we all know that with great clubhead speed comes severity even when missing with only 1°. Add a base angle miss with a high spend total mess and you have a recipe for a 50 yard hook or slice. But with a long iron it won't have that spin to carry that far.

Why people would want to add spin and carry on a bad miss (For a high speed player) is beyond me. It's math.


TTing

 

[Johnny mojo]

Ryan I think I was present for the conversation you are referring to, and I think you misunderstood a little bit. He did say everything you said, but most of that is in reference to the OG hybrids, and I think he actually mentioned the hybrid you have in your signature as being one of the worst offenders. He did say there are still alot of draw biased hybrids out there, but I think he also mentioned that there are some out there that are no longer that way, even though he still doesn't prefer to play hybrids himself.

Just wow.....

J.

 

[rtparty]

well that's a bit much. I don't think anything is fixing a crap swing. One does need to able to make decent strikes. I think most people know that. But things do help for the slight miss hit and not so well rounded or consistent ball striker imo. Why shouldn't one take advantage of such things if they help him enjoy the game better. And not everyone at all is capable of fixing their swing so easily past a certain point for very many reasons including time and money. If that was the case we'd all be single digit players.

I think you took my message the wrong way.

I'm not saying and would never say that everyone must have a perfect swing to play this game. 99% of people will never have that.

What I meant to come across is that I see a lot of golfers jump at the latest and greatest hoping it will magically cure their problems. When it doesn't, the club is at fault.

So they go on spending more and more money (which they have every right to do) on more and more equipment that will never help them. Some get so fed up they quit golf and that isn't positive for any of us.

In reality, most of them would have been much better off spending the money and time on lessons with a pro. Maybe they stay playing golf at that point because they can enjoy it.

Personally, I've always enjoyed hitting better shots than what clubs I had in my bag and I love equipment. But equipment only does so much. Flaws in the swing will always haunt and hurt us.

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[JB]

Ryan I think I was present for the conversation you are referring to, and I think you misunderstood a little bit. He did say everything you said, but most of that is in reference to the OG hybrids, and I think he actually mentioned the hybrid you have in your signature as being one of the worst offenders. He did say there are still alot of draw biased hybrids out there, but I think he also mentioned that there are some out there that are no longer that way, even though he still doesn't prefer to play hybrids himself.

Wake is actually right here. So is RT for that matter, but he was referring to original hybrids and the original design (which was his). He was not speaking of current hybrids, his designs or any designs for that matter.

 

[goalie]

The 1% don't apply to most things we ever discuss on here.

Some people smoke hybrids and love them, some people hit them crappy but believe they will one day hit them well because it's a hybrid, and others will never hit them well.

All I did was quote what the designer of one of the biggest hybrids ever designed said.

I've yet to find one that I like but that is me and my swing.

He must've designed the crappy one's then that the tour players DON'T use......


:banana:

 

[rtparty]

He must've designed the crappy one's then that the tour players DON'T use......


:banana:

JB can correct me if wrong but he designed his first hybrid for the pros...

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[Hawk]

30 yards short is often better than 30 yards left or 30 yards right. The hybrid face is built to add spin on miss hits so balls will carry the most distance. But we all know that with great clubhead speed comes severity even when missing with only 1°. Add a base angle miss with a high spend total mess and you have a recipe for a 50 yard hook or slice. But with a long iron it won't have that spin to carry that far.

Why people would want to add spin and carry on a bad miss (For a high speed player) is beyond me. It's math.


TTing

What is adding backspin to increase carry? I thought we were talking corrective spin, ie draw spin on a toe miss, which would bring a push back.

 

[rtparty]

Wake is actually right here. So is RT for that matter, but he was referring to original hybrids and the original design (which was his). He was not speaking of current hybrids, his designs or any designs for that matter.

Thank you Wake and JB.

Wake, that hybrid is out but I'm waiting to update my signature until we have some amazing callaway goodness to add!

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[CharlieMoy]

What is adding backspin to increase carry? I thought we were talking corrective spin, ie draw spin on a toe miss, which would bring a push back.

In general, hybrids spin(back and side) more than irons. Especially over blade irons.


TTing

 

[Tadashi70]

30 yards short is often better than 30 yards left or 30 yards right. The hybrid face is built to add spin on miss hits so balls will carry the most distance. But we all know that with great clubhead speed comes severity even when missing with only 1°. Add a base angle miss with a high spend total mess and you have a recipe for a 50 yard hook or slice. But with a long iron it won't have that spin to carry that far.

Why people would want to add spin and carry on a bad miss (For a high speed player) is beyond me. It's math.


TTing

Why people would struggle with thins, chunks and inconsistent impact positions with long irons is beyond me. If you're missing 30 yard s right of left of your target, that your swing not the club.

 

[mikedean441]

Why people would struggle with thins, chunks and inconsistent impact positions with long irons is beyond me. If you're missing 30 yard s right of left of your target, that your swing not the club.

Nonsense Fred club companies need more buttery feeling bottom 2 groves to eliminate thin feeling..cant be my swing.

 

[Hawk]

Interesting. I just can't picture that for some reason, at least regarding backspin. I can see side spin off center I guess if we're talking gear effect.