Wake
Active member
For me, much less so laterally
Long Irons vs Hybrids - Alternate Shots
For me, much less so laterally
Two questions/thoughts:
1. I wonder if distance capability correlates to how much you like hybrids. They say hybrids are longer, but is that only because most people can't hit long irons solidly? If you can smash a 3i 230 yards what benefit is hitting a hybrid?
2. As I mentioned earlier, I wonder if your iron club length has anything to do with hybrid likability. I play +1" on my irons, so my 4 iron is in fact longer than my 3 hybrid which results in a heck of a lot of tops. I wonder if you'd find most people that like hybrids being standard length with their irons.
1. I wonder if distance capability correlates to how much you like hybrids. They say hybrids are longer, but is that only because most people can't hit long irons solidly? If you can smash a 3i 230 yards what benefit is hitting a hybrid?
2. As I mentioned earlier, I wonder if your iron club length has anything to do with hybrid likability. I play +1" on my irons, so my 4 iron is in fact longer than my 3 hybrid which results in a heck of a lot of tops. I wonder if you'd find most people that like hybrids being standard length with their irons.
- Moderator
- #78
I think hybrids are more penal left-right at my personal swing speed, but are much improved on distance based accuracy on off center strikes (high/low).
- Staff
- #79
I guess it could be cut and dried/easy to understand if you only looked at it one way.
First of all, I get the bulge/roll argument. I get that 100%. Of course, that comes in varying degrees and also can provide positves along with the negatives.
However, at the same time if we're talking about professionals, we know that even they aren't hitting the center of the face every time. We also know that they 1) are performing under immense pressure (at times) and 2) they are taking shots under that pressure that can have huge impact on wins, dollars, prestige, etc. I can't imagine that they'd even consider a club in the bag that would inherently carry with it such a high potential for error at their ball speeds.
Obviously not for everybody, but I don't think it's so cut and dried as to say that they are always a bad match for people with high swing speeds and contact issues. Maybe that's a fitting thing and there's a way to minimize that sort of miss while retaining some of the other benefits. Maybe long irons are better. Still, I can't agree that it's quite so black and white.
As a side note, for all the negative comments this little video series has created, it's certainly got people talking. Talking about golf even
I'm a fan, even if the production value could be improved upon a little.
CharlieMoy
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Nope..
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They are, BUT.... I'd rather be 30 yards short of the green and in the rough than to be 5 yards short of the green and OOB or in the trees.
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CharlieMoy
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Also Colt, if youre 30 yards short, that could effectively be closer to the green than whatever the hybrid leaves you left/right of the green.
Spaceman_Spiff
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Couldn't agree more with gaming (more) hybrids. Currently I don't game I 3 wood, I go Driver, 3h, 4h, 4 iron...
Gapping was and will likely be the priority driving this setup and future setups of my bag. I was hitting a 3w on longer par 4 tee boxes, and missing the fairway about 50% of the time. I found a hybrid that carried about 5 yards less, but on off center hits wouldn't dramatically curve so I still found the shortgrass 65% and up. I still carry the 4h (basically my 5 wood) about 15 yards further than my 4 iron so again gapping is the key for me.
Wasn't KJ Choi gaming hyrbids up through his 6 or 7 iron at the masters recently?
Hyrbids; not just for the amatuer...
Gapping was and will likely be the priority driving this setup and future setups of my bag. I was hitting a 3w on longer par 4 tee boxes, and missing the fairway about 50% of the time. I found a hybrid that carried about 5 yards less, but on off center hits wouldn't dramatically curve so I still found the shortgrass 65% and up. I still carry the 4h (basically my 5 wood) about 15 yards further than my 4 iron so again gapping is the key for me.
Wasn't KJ Choi gaming hyrbids up through his 6 or 7 iron at the masters recently?
Hyrbids; not just for the amatuer...
- Staff
- #84
Conversely, would you rather be 30 yards short in the water or 30 yards left in the rough?
Again, you all's personal fitting needs or preferences are of no issue with me, but I think you guys are just as black and white as some of the pro-hybrid arguments.
Zenger
Gunga... Gunga Galooga
That's why I think you see pros pulling hybrids on certain courses and long irons on others.
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CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Hawk,
I'm(we are) not making a statement saying "irons are better than hybrids. Period." statement, I'm(we are) making a "irons are better for me(us), and many others" statement because those many others and I have been swept under a blanket statement once again.
The pro hybrid argument IS stating that hybrids are better for everyone, in every scenario. Which simply just is not true. And when a video is posted stating "you should play hybrids instead of long irons" it's bound to be debated.
TTing
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Not usre if what i say here is completely correct, But as once explained to me there are two sides to this depending on just how successful one is with hitting the long iron. If you have a poor long iron shot than most likely you struggle getting the ball up and going so the ability of a hybrid to get the ball up and going is going to result in longer shots simply by default. But if one can already get the ball up and going with a longer iron then that extra hight from the hybrid can result in a shorter shot for that person. This (right or wrong, I just dont know for sure). Shorter but (if hit on to a green) able to hold better due to the steeper decent angle. I dont know if thats really all correct or not. But other factors like shaft legnth and loft also play a role in that logic too.
The general thought is to swing the hybrid as though its an iron. My instructer said he doesnt belive that is written in stone and actually views them as having thier own swing.
Regardless, If one hits a 4h same as a 4i and/or in place of the 4iron than why imo shouldnt that shaft legnth also be the same? I think some of the problems people have with swinging hybs (among other things) is the longer shafts. Longer leads to more speed and may add to the logic of a hyb being longer but more speed equals less accuracy for most amateurs. So playing the club at the legnth of its iron brother is something my fitter brought up to me for the reason i mentioned. Again, right or wrong I dont really know.
Depends on the hole, so as you say it is not black and white. Where there's no forced carry (or not a large one) I'm more inclined to take the long iron cause I will probably hit it straighter and if I mishit it, no harm, I'm just short. If I have a forced carry of anything more than about 170 yards though, I'm taking a hybrid almost every time.
- Staff
- #89
Let's not get too dramatic about it dude LOL. Throwing out a few viewpoints that maybe swing speed isn't the final test isn't really sweeping anybody under the rug. You're right, it should be debated and the one guy made a pretty good case for guys in your position.
Wake
Active member
For me a 4i is a no brainer, there is no way a hybrid is going to replace it any time soon. The 3 iron/hybird spot is the one that is up in the air for me. But chances are if I have a forced carry of more than 210 yards, I'm not going for it anyway, so the short int he water isn't a huge problem for me.
And I definitely don't think long irons are better than hybrids, I just haven't had any lucky making a hybird work.
And I definitely don't think long irons are better than hybrids, I just haven't had any lucky making a hybird work.
CharlieMoy
Well-known member
Not being dramatic dude just annoyed as what things that are normally and should be open to debate are being stated as a matter of fact lately.
TTing
Tadashi70
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I beg to differ, I have that shot with a hybrid or iron. You may not be able to Pull it off but it can be done
Tadashi70
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SharkHat
Aquatic Headwear Fanatic
I thought that hybrids and woods were built with curvature in the face to counteract gear effect. Shouldn't that, by design, help heel/toe misses?
Now, I'm not saying that every hybrid will work for everybody, or that irons won't work for anybody. I'm really trying to make sense of the concept that a hybrid is somehow less forgiving than its counterpart iron.
Now, I'm not saying that every hybrid will work for everybody, or that irons won't work for anybody. I'm really trying to make sense of the concept that a hybrid is somehow less forgiving than its counterpart iron.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
Hybrids are more forgiving off the heel and toe, that is a fact. If you hit a hybrid bad then you hit an iron bad.
There will always be exceptions to the rule but I would say 8 out of 10 hit hybrids better than irons.
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As stated earlier, this is mostly why i went with the hybs for my new set. Simply due to them being sort of pressured on to me just from hearing this everywhere you turn. It is especially brought up even more so for the higher cap player. I though they would help my game. But in the end was a mistake for me. Didnt like them, and after beating myself up with them I realized i didnt really have all that much reason for them anyway. Just not enough scenarios poping up for me to force myself to play these clubs simply because its "said" they are easier and better.
Just because things may be better for most doesnt mean its better for everyone. I think everyone knows that. And those who know me here via forum know that i am certainly not everyone else..lol
But there are those (some) who feel because something is better for tour pros than it just has to be better for us too. For many reasons, that is not a given nor should it be. Just my (usually different) opinion.
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9 out of 10 times, if I hit a hybrid poorly it is going into one of two different fairways. Neither of them are mine. 9 out of 10 times, if I hit a long iron poorly it is going short but still in either
A. The fairway.
B. The rough.
Very few and very far between have I hit a poor long iron even remotely as far offline (laterally) as I have a poor hybrid, which is a constant occurrence.
So for ME it's not just as easy. And for ME it DOES make sense. I didn't make a broad generalization of all golfers. I said what I would rather see out of a miss. So I feel that you saying that my comment that I made about my preference for a miss not making sense might be overstepping a bit.
- Staff
- #98
As stated earlier, this is mostly why i went with the hybs for my new set. Simply due to them being sort of pressured on to me just from hearing this everywhere you turn. It is especially brought up even more so for the higher cap player. I though they would help my game. But in the end was a mistake for me. Didnt like them, and after beating myself up with them I realized i didnt really have all that much reason for them anyway. Just not enough scenarios poping up for me to force myself to play these clubs simply because its "said" they are easier and better.
Just because things may be better for most doesnt mean its better for everyone. I think everyone knows that. And those who know me here via forum know that i am certainly not everyone else..lol
But there are those (some) who feel because something is better for tour pros than it just has to be better for us too. For many reasons, that is not a given nor should it be. Just my (usually different) opinion.
I think the fact that you'll see hybrids recommended for amateurs as less to do with Tour use and more to do with things like more retained ball speed off center, flight correction off center, easier launch, higher flight, steeper descent, etc. If people were basing recommendations on Tour use, you'd see a lot more bags with only one hybrid vs multiple, smaller footprints, more fade bias, etc.
That's where fitting and demoing comes in. If you're buying based on feeling pressured I'd look for a new place to buy from.
I guess it could be cut and dried/easy to understand if you only looked at it one way.
First of all, I get the bulge/roll argument. I get that 100%. Of course, that comes in varying degrees and also can provide positves along with the negatives.
However, at the same time if we're talking about professionals, we know that even they aren't hitting the center of the face every time. We also know that they 1) are performing under immense pressure (at times) and 2) they are taking shots under that pressure that can have huge impact on wins, dollars, prestige, etc. I can't imagine that they'd even consider a club in the bag that would inherently carry with it such a high potential for error at their ball speeds.
Obviously not for everybody, but I don't think it's so cut and dried as to say that they are always a bad match for people with high swing speeds and contact issues. Maybe that's a fitting thing and there's a way to minimize that sort of miss while retaining some of the other benefits. Maybe long irons are better. Still, I can't agree that it's quite so black and white.
As a side note, for all the negative comments this little video series has created, it's certainly got people talking. Talking about golf even
Thanks for the feedback all, glad to see it has started a good debate. Let us know any future topics you have ideas on and also any thoughts on things like how you would like to see the production value improved.
- Staff
- #100
Production was probably a poor choice in words. Really, I'd just like to see you expand the time a little. Give the guys a minute rather than 30 seconds or something like that. I think the fact that every installment has produced a big old thread here is a sign you're hitting good topics. Keep it up!