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Stack and Tilt - Experiences, Opinions, and Use

JB said:
And while that may be true, it does not mean the concept is right for every golfer. If it was, more people would be using it and less would have abandoned it so quickly. As I said, as we have spoken to more and more golfers of higher abilities they share similar thoughts.
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Are you stating the laws of geometry, physics and calculus vary from person to person? You state that various people leave the S&T group, where is Weir now? Weir won millions using S&T, yet what has he won since? Badds was 20th in the world with S&T, and is now 51st, even after a recent win after being away from Mike and Andy for a few years. That's the actual beauty of Stack and Tilt, people say there is no swing theory that is right for everyone. That is simply not right. Explain to me how your experience is in anyway a fair test of the Stack and Tilt system. Did you ever have a lesson with an authorized Stack and Tilt instructor? I don't think I've heard of one person getting a lesson with a S&T instructor and walking away unsatisfied. Do you think watching Kobe Bryant's instructional videos will make you able to hit a turn around 25 footer? Or would a lesson with Kobe help more? It's rather foolish to bash stack and tilt as you do, when you did so little to even see if it would work.
It's a swing that is different than the swing you have most likely been using for years. You have all your bad habits engrained, and you think that is magically going to be fixed by watching a book or reading some DVDs? Show me a player that got worse with S&T, after giving a full and honest effort, then maybe your points have some merit.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that it is essentially the S&T guys that made it common knowledge that path controls curve and face controls starting direction, meanwhile your standard instructors(think leadbetter, Haney, Harmon) all say still that face controls curve. So which do you believe?
 
I tried out the stack and tilt for awhile. In my experience its great if you want to hit the ball straight. It was very difficult for me to shape shots using the s&t and I dropped 10 yards in distance because i wasnt making a lateral move. Overall its good if you want a straight ball flight with a little less power. On the good side though it almost completely eliminated bad shots. Once you have it down youll notice youll hit more and more flush shots. Overall its a good swing technique, works for some but not all.

Sent from my LG-LG855 using Tapatalk 2
 
pinhigh27 said:
Are you stating the laws of geometry, physics and calculus vary from person to person? You state that various people leave the S&T group, where is Weir now? Weir won millions using S&T, yet what has he won since? Badds was 20th in the world with S&T, and is now 51st, even after a recent win after being away from Mike and Andy for a few years. That's the actual beauty of Stack and Tilt, people say there is no swing theory that is right for everyone. That is simply not right. Explain to me how your experience is in anyway a fair test of the Stack and Tilt system. Did you ever have a lesson with an authorized Stack and Tilt instructor? I don't think I've heard of one person getting a lesson with a S&T instructor and walking away unsatisfied. Do you think watching Kobe Bryant's instructional videos will make you able to hit a turn around 25 footer? Or would a lesson with Kobe help more? It's rather foolish to bash stack and tilt as you do, when you did so little to even see if it would work.
It's a swing that is different than the swing you have most likely been using for years. You have all your bad habits engrained, and you think that is magically going to be fixed by watching a book or reading some DVDs? Show me a player that got worse with S&T, after giving a full and honest effort, then maybe your points have some merit.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that it is essentially the S&T guys that made it common knowledge that path controls curve and face controls starting direction, meanwhile your standard instructors(think leadbetter, Haney, Harmon) all say still that face controls curve. So which do you believe?
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So based on this post, the Stack and Tilt is perfect for every golfer. Every single golfer out there would benefit from the Stack and Tilt huh? And you are using Mike Weir's injury issues as a sellable "feat" as to why?

No offense, but that is false. The people behind the swing are selling books and dvds. Sure they offer lessons, but for many that is not obtainable due to location and other factors. To say that nobody has ever walked away from a lesson unfulfilled is laughable, because the instructors are the ones that are selling their lessons to the world on dvd and book. Nobody bootlegged a lesson from them and can be accused of getting it wrong. Sometimes when you put something out there, that is for the world and its done poorly, that is a reflection of the entire project. And FWIW, you know nothing about whether or not I have been through a personal lesson, so I am not sure I would go that route.

Lastly, which one of us has no "wood in the fire"? Rhetorical of course...:alien:
 
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JB said:
So based on this post, the Stack and Tilt is perfect for every golfer. Every single golfer out there would benefit from the Stack and Tilt huh? And you are using Mike Weir's injury issues as a sellable "feat" as to why?

No offense, but that is false. The people behind the swing are selling books and dvds. Sure they offer lessons, but for many that is not obtainable due to location and other factors. To say that nobody has ever walked away from a lesson unfulfilled is laughable, because the instructors are the ones that are selling their lessons to the world on dvd and book. Nobody bootlegged a lesson from them and can be accused of getting it wrong. Sometimes when you put something out there, that is for the world and its done poorly, that is a reflection of the entire project. And FWIW, you know nothing about whether or not I have been through a personal lesson, so I am not sure I would go that route.

Lastly, which one of us has no "wood in the fire"? Rhetorical of course...:alien:
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yes I'd say so. At least Tiger Woods is trying it now, and with great results, so I think you would get them too. Weir got injured when he switched to another swing method? Oh and people say stacking is so bad for your body.......
Show me someone who went to a stack and tilt authorized instructor and walked away unfulfilled. Truly, please do. Show me someone that took a lesson from Mike, Andy, Dana, Grant Waite, any of those guys, that was displeased and then you will have some merit. Additionally, from reading your posts you got only the DVD, and tried with that. Did you get a lesson? If you would have, you most likely would have said so by now to try to make me look silly.
I really think you should give Stack a shot.
 
pinhigh27 said:
yes I'd say so. At least Tiger Woods is trying it now, and with great results, so I think you would get them too. Weir got injured when he switched to another swing method? Oh and people say stacking is so bad for your body.......
Show me someone who went to a stack and tilt authorized instructor and walked away unfulfilled. Truly, please do. Show me someone that took a lesson from Mike, Andy, Dana, Grant Waite, any of those guys, that was displeased and then you will have some merit. Additionally, from reading your posts you got only the DVD, and tried with that. Did you get a lesson? If you would have, you most likely would have said so by now to try to make me look silly.
I really think you should give Stack a shot.
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Tiger is not S&T, it may look close, but it certainly is not.
 
IceyShanks said:
Tiger is not S&T, it may look close, but it certainly is not.
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Tiger= Foley. Foley learned everything he has ever known from Mike and Andy. Tiger is not stacked, but everything Tiger does it based off stack. You can call that what you want...
 
pinhigh27 said:
Tiger= Foley. Foley learned everything he has ever known from Mike and Andy. Tiger is not stacked, but everything Tiger does it based off stack. You can call that what you want...
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So you are saying that Foley endorses S&T?? That's news to me....
 
pinhigh27 said:
Tiger= Foley. Foley learned everything he has ever known from Mike and Andy. Tiger is not stacked, but everything Tiger does it based off stack. You can call that what you want...
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Foley did not learn everything he knows from them. He took bits and pieces from a lot of different guys. He says so himself.
 
DonJuan said:
Foley did not learn everything he knows from them. He took bits and pieces from a lot of different guys. He says so himself.
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Or so he says. Go compare the swings. He watered down Stack and Tilt and then re-labeled it.
 
pinhigh27 said:
yes I'd say so. At least Tiger Woods is trying it now, and with great results, so I think you would get them too. Weir got injured when he switched to another swing method? Oh and people say stacking is so bad for your body.......
Show me someone who went to a stack and tilt authorized instructor and walked away unfulfilled. Truly, please do. Show me someone that took a lesson from Mike, Andy, Dana, Grant Waite, any of those guys, that was displeased and then you will have some merit. Additionally, from reading your posts you got only the DVD, and tried with that. Did you get a lesson? If you would have, you most likely would have said so by now to try to make me look silly.
I really think you should give Stack a shot.
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How accessible is the swing if instructors have to be certified? When was the last time a stack and tilt swing won on the PGA tour?

Using your logic, the two plane swing my instructor teaches is the best swing technique. You can't dispute that, because you have never had a lesson with him.

I don't think the s/t swing is a bad thought. I just don't think it is right for everybody.
 
I enjoy talking to my four year old, that doesn't make him a great swing coach.
 
blugold said:
How accessible is the swing if instructors have to be certified? When was the last time a stack and tilt swing won on the PGA tour?

Using your logic, the two plane swing my instructor teaches is the best swing technique. You can't dispute that, because you have never had a lesson with him.

I don't think the s/t swing is a bad thought. I just don't think it is right for everybody.
Click to expand...

But on the contrary the swing is very accessible. They have DVDs, books and tons of online information. However, they certify instructors, so that people(like many of you) don't criticize the swing, when they aren't actually doing what stack and tilt advocates. It is for this reason, I say that you cannot criticize the method or say it does not work, when you most likely aren't completing the moves they recommend. Therefore, I ask that you go to a true stack and tilt teacher and take a lesson from them before you make any statements about the swings success or validity. You could go to your two plane teacher and say, " teach me stack and tilt." Now he could just say, " ok just put all your weight on your left foot and swing short," or something incorrect like that. Now for all you know, you get bad results from what he said stack and tilt was, so of course think stack and tilt sucks. See what I mean?

When was the last time stack and tilt won on tour? Well Matteson is a Stacker(on the DVDs) and just got runner up at John Deere, and has made 750k this year alone. JJ Henry, Bill Lunde and Cejka finish 1 2 3 at the turning stone last year. JJ Henry took 3rd at Byron this year and has made around 700K, Charlie took second at the AT&T, and 3rd at Greenbrier, and has bagged 1.6 million so far. So I guess to answer your question , they have 1 win within the last two years, but a whole lot of good finishes to their credit, and a whole lot of money. I'd like to make 700K 3/4 through the year from golf. Hope this helps clear up some things and shows you that Stack and Tilt actually has some decent results among its tour staff. I mean a 1 2 3 finish is pretty impressive!

Edit: I hope you all don't think I'm getting too riled about this. I'm not involved with Stack and Tilt in any way, aside from a simple 19 year old guy who took 10 lessons from his local S&T guy and got to meet Andy once. I'd just like to add, that I won my first junior tournament and set an all time scoring record about a year after I switched to Stack and Tilt. I just really think it's a good method and I'm a big numbers guy so it works for me. I understand there are those of you who simply can't do it, or won't try it, but that doesn't mean I can't try to change your minds!
 
pinhigh27 said:
But on the contrary the swing is very accessible. They have DVDs, books and tons of online information. However, they certify instructors, so that people(like many of you) don't criticize the swing, when they aren't actually doing what stack and tilt advocates. It is for this reason, I say that you cannot criticize the method or say it does not work, when you most likely aren't completing the moves they recommend. Therefore, I ask that you go to a true stack and tilt teacher and take a lesson from them before you make any statements about the swings success or validity. You could go to your two plane teacher and say, " teach me stack and tilt." Now he could just say, " ok just put all your weight on your left foot and swing short," or something incorrect like that. Now for all you know, you get bad results from what he said stack and tilt was, so of course think stack and tilt sucks. See what I mean?

When was the last time stack and tilt won on tour? Well Matteson is a Stacker(on the DVDs) and just got runner up at John Deere, and has made 750k this year alone. JJ Henry, Bill Lunde and Cejka finish 1 2 3 at the turning stone last year. JJ Henry took 3rd at Byron this year and has made around 700K, Charlie took second at the AT&T, and 3rd at Greenbrier, and has bagged 1.6 million so far. So I guess to answer your question , they have 1 win within the last two years, but a whole lot of good finishes to their credit, and a whole lot of money. I'd like to make 700K 3/4 through the year from golf. Hope this helps clear up some things and shows you that Stack and Tilt actually has some decent results among its tour staff. I mean a 1 2 3 finish is pretty impressive!
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So, all of your posts are in this thread and this thread alone. But my opinion of S&T isn't valid unless I've spent my money to find out that whether it's snake oil or not?

Do you not see why people might question your motives?
 
SharkHat said:
So, all of your posts are in this thread and this thread alone. But my opinion of S&T isn't valid unless I've spent my money to find out that whether it's snake oil or not?

Do you not see why people might question your motives?
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So you rate a new driver before you try it? Because watching stack and tilt DVDs or reading the book, and then forming an opinion off that is like reading Ping's newest press release and say the G20 is a bust- before you even hit it. People spends thousands a year on clubs, so they can spend 100 bucks 1 time to go see a S&T teacher. And if it doesn't help you, hey now you know, just try it. 100 bucks is a lot less than the 400 some people spend every year on a new driver. How do you judge the snake oil if you never buy it? Stack and tilt isn't even close to snake oil, did you read about the pga tour finishes?
 
pinhigh27 said:
So you rate a new driver before you try it? Because watching stack and tilt DVDs or reading the book, and then forming an opinion off that is like reading Ping's newest press release and say the G20 is a bust- before you even hit it. People spends thousands a year on clubs, so they can spend 100 bucks 1 time to go see a S&T teacher. And if it doesn't help you, hey now you know, just try it. 100 bucks is a lot less than the 400 some people spend every year on a new driver. How do you judge the snake oil if you never buy it? Stack and tilt isn't even close to snake oil, did you read about the pga tour finishes?
Click to expand...

Gee, you've changed my mind! Maybe you're right! Stack and Tilt really is the perfect swing for every golfer. And if all of us would only just spend $100 to find out for ourselves, we could all play better golf!

And then we could all recruit another 10 or 20 people to spend $100 too!


This is sounding more and more like an infomercial. Really? There's like, six whole guys in the money on tour? Even though it's the perfect swing for everybody?
 
I try the stack & Tilt every now and then with limited success. We don't have a qualified instructor in my neck of the woods that teaches it. I bought the DVD first edition and found it helped my ball striking a bit. I'm not your technical type guy so all that angle, tuck your butt stuff just blew over my head. My knees are wore out (especially the right one) and I tried it, to take the pressure off that knee. I feel like I am standing on a pole since my right leg is two inches shorter than my left :bulgy-eyes:
 
I think I'd like to give stack and tilt a try. I'll have to see if there's an instructor around me. Seems to make sense to me based on all the math/physics stuff.
 
pinhigh27 said:
But on the contrary the swing is very accessible. They have DVDs, books and tons of online information. However, they certify instructors, so that people(like many of you) don't criticize the swing, when they aren't actually doing what stack and tilt advocates. It is for this reason, I say that you cannot criticize the method or say it does not work, when you most likely aren't completing the moves they recommend. Therefore, I ask that you go to a true stack and tilt teacher and take a lesson from them before you make any statements about the swings success or validity. You could go to your two plane teacher and say, " teach me stack and tilt." Now he could just say, " ok just put all your weight on your left foot and swing short," or something incorrect like that. Now for all you know, you get bad results from what he said stack and tilt was, so of course think stack and tilt sucks. See what I mean?

When was the last time stack and tilt won on tour? Well Matteson is a Stacker(on the DVDs) and just got runner up at John Deere, and has made 750k this year alone. JJ Henry, Bill Lunde and Cejka finish 1 2 3 at the turning stone last year. JJ Henry took 3rd at Byron this year and has made around 700K, Charlie took second at the AT&T, and 3rd at Greenbrier, and has bagged 1.6 million so far. So I guess to answer your question , they have 1 win within the last two years, but a whole lot of good finishes to their credit, and a whole lot of money. I'd like to make 700K 3/4 through the year from golf. Hope this helps clear up some things and shows you that Stack and Tilt actually has some decent results among its tour staff. I mean a 1 2 3 finish is pretty impressive!

Edit: I hope you all don't think I'm getting too riled about this. I'm not involved with Stack and Tilt in any way, aside from a simple 19 year old guy who took 10 lessons from his local S&T guy and got to meet Andy once. I'd just like to add, that I won my first junior tournament and set an all time scoring record about a year after I switched to Stack and Tilt. I just really think it's a good method and I'm a big numbers guy so it works for me. I understand there are those of you who simply can't do it, or won't try it, but that doesn't mean I can't try to change your minds!
Click to expand...

Except we are all snowflakes. Not everybody has the same flexibilty, coordination, arm length, or even the same amount of limbs. To say that it's the right swing for everybody is as ignorant as saying that it is complete rubbish without investigating it.

I don't believe it's rubbish. The idea makes sense too me. But that's all I know of it, just the general idea. And bio-mechanically speaking, other swing ideas make more sense to me.
 
pinhigh27 said:
But on the contrary the swing is very accessible. They have DVDs, books and tons of online information. However, they certify instructors, so that people(like many of you) don't criticize the swing, when they aren't actually doing what stack and tilt advocates. It is for this reason, I say that you cannot criticize the method or say it does not work, when you most likely aren't completing the moves they recommend. Therefore, I ask that you go to a true stack and tilt teacher and take a lesson from them before you make any statements about the swings success or validity. You could go to your two plane teacher and say, " teach me stack and tilt." Now he could just say, " ok just put all your weight on your left foot and swing short," or something incorrect like that. Now for all you know, you get bad results from what he said stack and tilt was, so of course think stack and tilt sucks. See what I mean?

When was the last time stack and tilt won on tour? Well Matteson is a Stacker(on the DVDs) and just got runner up at John Deere, and has made 750k this year alone. JJ Henry, Bill Lunde and Cejka finish 1 2 3 at the turning stone last year. JJ Henry took 3rd at Byron this year and has made around 700K, Charlie took second at the AT&T, and 3rd at Greenbrier, and has bagged 1.6 million so far. So I guess to answer your question , they have 1 win within the last two years, but a whole lot of good finishes to their credit, and a whole lot of money. I'd like to make 700K 3/4 through the year from golf. Hope this helps clear up some things and shows you that Stack and Tilt actually has some decent results among its tour staff. I mean a 1 2 3 finish is pretty impressive!

Edit: I hope you all don't think I'm getting too riled about this. I'm not involved with Stack and Tilt in any way, aside from a simple 19 year old guy who took 10 lessons from his local S&T guy and got to meet Andy once. I'd just like to add, that I won my first junior tournament and set an all time scoring record about a year after I switched to Stack and Tilt. I just really think it's a good method and I'm a big numbers guy so it works for me. I understand there are those of you who simply can't do it, or won't try it, but that doesn't mean I can't try to change your minds!
Click to expand...

To the first bolded part.
That is a huge assumption. Based on almost everything you have posted here, it is all about the perception from those leaving their lessons. So if I go to any teacher and show progress or enjoy my lesson, it would in fact be the most effective swing out there and if you dont believe me, all I would say is "You have not spent time with this instructor".

What if I told you I had been to a lesson with a certified instructor and did not care for the swing. I did not progress and in fact over time I found that I was regressing more than just about any time previously. The response would be either "You werent doing it right" or "You did not give it enough of a chance". Reality is, there is absolutely nothing in the world that is perfect for every golfer and to think otherwise is pretty ridiculous.

To the second bolded part.
And based on the question, the real answer is not often. And yet according to most of the other posts, every winner that we have had would most likely be better off if they went the stack and tilt method.

blugold said:
Except we are all snowflakes. Not everybody has the same flexibilty, coordination, arm length, or even the same amount of limbs. To say that it's the right swing for everybody is as ignorant as saying that it is complete rubbish without investigating it.

I don't believe it's rubbish. The idea makes sense too me. But that's all I know of it, just the general idea. And bio-mechanically speaking, other swing ideas make more sense to me.
Click to expand...

The bolded part to a T.
 
pinhigh27 said:
So you rate a new driver before you try it? Because watching stack and tilt DVDs or reading the book, and then forming an opinion off that is like reading Ping's newest press release and say the G20 is a bust- before you even hit it. People spends thousands a year on clubs, so they can spend 100 bucks 1 time to go see a S&T teacher. And if it doesn't help you, hey now you know, just try it. 100 bucks is a lot less than the 400 some people spend every year on a new driver. How do you judge the snake oil if you never buy it? Stack and tilt isn't even close to snake oil, did you read about the pga tour finishes?
Click to expand...

Last time I checked, Ping was not charging for a press release.
 
JB said:
Last time I checked, Ping was not charging for a press release.
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Someone paid for the drivers to get the press release in the first place, just like someone bought the DVD or book, then talked about it online.....
 
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