Tiger Thinks He's Still the Best

[JB]

JB, bro I hope you never make a mistake in life, my brother. Tiger was no different then Enron or MCI, taking serioulsy thought out and calculated chances, thinking that the rules didint apply to them. He messed up, HUGE, truly will not defend that, if that was my sister I wouldve whooped Tiger's A double crooked letter, but the only person that should be hurt by his actions are his childern and most of all his wife, Tiger didnt make a vow to any of you guys on here, I dont remember any of you crying in a magazine article in front of your kids, THAT WAS ELIN, thats who he hurt, everyone else HE DIDNT HURT YOU, GET OVER IT! And I cant wait to meet all of you guys on THP...one day.

Couple of things, everybody makes mistakes. Not everybody goes out of the way to create a pattern of behavior such as this. And dont give me the song and dance that nobody should be disappointed except Elin. Because you have already said you "forgave him" and if he did nothing wrong to you, you would not have to forgive him. He built an illusion and profited from that on any consumer that spent money his way for years. You think he makes a billion dollars if everybody knew he was a scumbag? He built a foundation (that I donated to) based on a myth that was nothing but lies.

And none of this changes the fact that the guy is a complete jerk on the golf course at times.

I also wish everybody could visit our neck of the woods more and see what locals that are around him have to say...Its quite different...:act-up:

 

[Puttin4Bird]

Couple of things, everybody makes mistakes. Not everybody goes out of the way to create a pattern of behavior such as this. And dont give me the song and dance that nobody should be disappointed except Elin. Because you have already said you "forgave him" and if he did nothing wrong to you, you would not have to forgive him. He built an illusion and profited from that on any consumer that spent money his way for years. You think he makes a billion dollars if everybody knew he was a scumbag? He built a foundation (that I donated to) based on a myth that was nothing but lies.

I don't think I'd do so well as a Tiger fan in this discussion anyway. I completely agree with every word of your post.

 

[Smallville]

We all agree that the number one ranked player is the best in the world, correct? Not your opinion, a fact based off of the ranking system, that is accepted by MAJORITY of golf productions, whatever they maybe. He might not be playing like it but if you believe that the number one ranked player is the best in the world going by the same system, Tiger is the 5th best player in the world. We are not asking what he is playing like the fact is based off a system established and recognized globally, Tiger is the 5th best golfer in the world.

No. Right now, I think Kaymer is both the #1 ranked AND the best player, but I don't think it was that way during most of Westwood's short reign at the top. Nor the last year-plus that Tiger was ranked #1. Tiger was just so much better for so long, that even though he sucked, no one could catch him for a while.

Just like Lourena Ochoa was #1 for the women, although her last year she was anything but.

You may agree, but we don't ALL agree.

 

[Mustng5]

Couple of things, everybody makes mistakes. Not everybody goes out of the way to create a pattern of behavior such as this. And dont give me the song and dance that nobody should be disappointed except Elin. Because you have already said you "forgave him" and if he did nothing wrong to you, you would not have to forgive him. He built an illusion and profited from that on any consumer that spent money his way for years. You think he makes a billion dollars if everybody knew he was a scumbag? He built a foundation (that I donated to) based on a myth that was nothing but lies.

And none of this changes the fact that the guy is a complete jerk on the golf course at times.

I also wish everybody could visit our neck of the woods more and see what locals that are around him have to say...Its quite different...:act-up:

Understood. I am understanding you better JB. And I had to forgive Tiger because he made it that much harder from someone, from his walk of life to have everything he had in that sport. Endorsers will second guess themselves now, he added and continues to add fuel to a lot of stereotypes. But I completely understand where you are coming from JB. THP have a good weekend....hit em straight!

 

[Goins]

Tiger screwed up, let all of us down for sure. Its not as easy being a fan as it once was especially when you add how he is currently playing. I have a nagging suspicion though when things do finally come around with his swing and he gets back to winning SOME of the bashing will stop. I can understand the feelings, he was the man and could do no wrong. The life we thought we knew was simply a facade and the real one was not only dissapointing but also disgusting. I'm still a fan of Tiger the player, the man however I'm not.

 

[JB]

Tiger screwed up, let all of us down for sure. Its not as easy being a fan as it once was especially when you add how he is currently playing. I have a nagging suspicion though when things do finally come around with his swing and he gets back to winning SOME of the bashing will stop. I can understand the feelings, he was the man and could do no wrong. The life we thought we knew was simply a facade and the real one was not only dissapointing but also disgusting. I'm still a fan of Tiger the player, the man however I'm not.

Well said. I agree with that part because I too am a fan of his golf game. It does wonderful things for business and the excitement about golf overall. I think he will be back at some point, Im exhausted by the notion and thoughts that comes up that it is every week when he has yet to put together more than a 1-2 good rounds in a tournament, but he is getting closer I think.

 

[Sean]

Maybe I'm one of the few, but I've never been a fan of TW. I always found his on course demeanor off-putting: whether it was his excessive fist-pumping, his moping, sour puss face, or club throwing antics. Not to mention the way he ignored the fans, his caddy's behavior, etc.

 

[blugold]

Well said. I agree with that part because I too am a fan of his golf game. It does wonderful things for business and the excitement about golf overall. I think he will be back at some point, Im exhausted by the notion and thoughts that comes up that it is every week when he has yet to put together more than a 1-2 good rounds in a tournament, but he is getting closer I think.

If/when it happens, can you imagine the excitment from the talking heads and a lot people on this forum. It will be nuts.

 

[cj3ap2]

I don't know if that is a good thing. I think part of the attraction to Tiger is that he doesn't look like a member of the old guard. His club sponser choices, his dress, and the way he plays the game makes him standout against the country club world of golf. And that makes him more appealing to younger fans and people who don't know the "gentleman" world of golf.

I agree that he does appeal to a wider variety (i am of that variety, in fact when i was a kid if i hadn't originally been drawn to the game by tiger at the master in 97, i may never have taken up golf because the rich, exclusive country club world is something i am no where even close to dreaming of, and that does make the sport extremely off putting.)

but that is not the gentlemanly to which i am referring, that would probably fall under snobbery. the gentlemanly golf way is a decorum of behavior on the course. It's not cheating your score, it's treating yourself, your partners and all other patrons, the course and all employees with respect; which means not beating on the ground with your clubs and throwing tantrums making everybody uncomfortable. It means not displaying wild theatrics to show up your opponents (although i do give leeway to tiger a little on this one, even though i've been "tiger fist pumped" by an opponent [which is actually a cool story i'll have to share some time] and it did bother me; in tiger's situation, as a pro winning majors in front of huge galleries is a big big thing so getting a little amped and going overboard with excitement is understandable). Have respect

the people that would be drawn to the game (meaning they'd probably like to do it themselves) for a guy who pouts around drawing attention to himself and treating course and his opponents with disrespect is probably not someone i want taking up the sport, they're certainly not someone i would enjoy golfing with

 

[Vegan702]

When one of these "best" players in the world win more than 1 major, then I will consider them in the running, but with Tiger and Phil still in the game and still winning with multiple majors, it's pretty hard to consider anyone other then those 2 as the best in the world. Now if you only want to consider what they have done over the last 1-2 years, then you might be able to label someone else as best, but they are not truly the best player in the world. And lets not forget Phil also won a major last year.

 

[INgolfer]

Hard to be the best player on tour when you're consistently one of the worst putters week after week. I think he can get back to the top but its going to take more than a consistent swing

 

[JB]

When one of these "best" players in the world win more than 1 major, then I will consider them in the running, but with Tiger and Phil still in the game and still winning with multiple majors, it's pretty hard to consider anyone other then those 2 as the best in the world. Now if you only want to consider what they have done over the last 1-2 years, then you might be able to label someone else as best, but they are not truly the best player in the world. And lets not forget Phil also won a major last year.

So based on that logic, guys like John Daly and Paddy Harrington would be considered ahead of guys like Lee Westwood? I dont know, I always consider the best in the world, what is current in the world of golf. At least over the last 12-24 months. Both Kaymer and G-Mac have both won, both won majors and both played dominant golf and beat the "man" in the last 12 months. I think they deserve that spot personally. GOAT is different than best right now in my opinion.

 

[INgolfer]

i wonder what my world ranking in golf is? Lol. Maybe 1,234,637th? Tiger, kaymer, or abette else better watch out for me!

 

[Esox]

Way earlier in the thread someone posted a thought that is often posted in relation to Tiger and watching golf. Something along the lines of "When Tiger is being dominant, golf is so much more interesting to watch." Another one people use is "I just like to watch great golf."

I notice JB commented on the latter earlier in the thread by saying what that usually really means is "If it's Tiger playing the great golf."

I guess I don't understand why golf is that much more interesting to watch if Tiger is dominant. Aren't there a lot of guys that play great golf? I think golf on TV was kind of boring when Tiger was at his best. The coverage is almost 100% Tiger, and in a lot tournaments there wasn't a lot of drama. It was like Jordan and the Bulls. I watch more golf now than I did then. Watching all the young guys jockeying toward possible greatness pleases me. I think it's interesting, and even more compelling. It's fun to watch them succeed, and it's fun to watch them learn as they fail.

I'm not sure I've let this be known previously, but I could care less if Tiger ever plays well again, and I also think if he does come back to be fairly dominant, that it's too soon, and he needs to suffer a bit longer for being such an ass.

Kevin

 

[Vegan702]

So based on that logic, guys like John Daly and Paddy Harrington would be considered ahead of guys like Lee Westwood? I dont know, I always consider the best in the world, what is current in the world of golf. At least over the last 12-24 months. Both Kaymer and G-Mac have both won, both won majors and both played dominant golf and beat the "man" in the last 12 months. I think they deserve that spot personally. GOAT is different than best right now in my opinion.

Niether would be considered as they are not still winning, Daly hasn't won a tournament in over 6 years and hasn't shown he could ever win again, and Harrington hasn't won in almost 3 years, but still hangs around the top every now and then. I am not discounting what Gmac and Kaymer have done and actually think Kaymer will be considered best in the world in my mind soon if he continues to win and wins more majors. Gmac has had 2 great seasons, 08 and 10, we will see if he can continue at that level this year and beyond for the next few years, but his prior record doesn't show that. Unlike Gmac, Kaymer has improved every year he has played and is the only true threat to hold the #1 ranking for a significant period of time over the current players.

 

[JB]

Niether would be considered as they are not still winning, Daly hasn't won a tournament in over 6 years and hasn't shown he could ever win again, and Harrington hasn't won in almost 3 years, but still hangs around the top every now and then. I am not discounting what Gmac and Kaymer have done and actually think Kaymer will be considered best in the world in my mind soon if he continues to win and wins more majors. Gmac has had 2 great seasons, 08 and 10, we will see if he can continue at that level this year and beyond for the next few years, but his prior record doesn't show that. Unlike Gmac, Kaymer has improved every year he has played and is the only true threat to hold the #1 ranking for a significant period of time over the current players.

By that same logic, TW has not exactly been winning over the 500 or so days. So again, how can we call him the best in the world based solely on the past? He has not won a major in quite some time, and has not been in contention at all. Sure he will be back, but in my opinion the flawed logic says that because he was dominant in the past, (and the GOAT), he is the best in the world right now especially when both Kaymer and G-Mac have won majors in that time as WELL AS other tournaments (including beating said player head to head on Sunday).

I always thought the best in the world was based on how well someone plays, not how well someone played previously, right? There is a reason that Woods is now 5th or so in the rankings.

 

[Vegan702]

By that same logic, TW has not exactly been winning over the 500 or so days. So again, how can we call him the best in the world based solely on the past? He has not won a major in quite some time, and has not been in contention at all. Sure he will be back, but in my opinion the flawed logic says that because he was dominant in the past, (and the GOAT), he is the best in the world right now especially when both Kaymer and G-Mac have won majors in that time as WELL AS other tournaments (including beating said player head to head on Sunday).

I always thought the best in the world was based on how well someone plays, not how well someone played previously, right? There is a reason that Woods is now 5th or so in the rankings.

I wasn't really referring to Tiger, more so Phil. We could go back and forth and bring other variables into it, such as winning on the PGA Tour. The top 4 are Europeans currently, and between them they have 3 wins in the US between them. Tiger and Phil both have multiple wins each on foreign soil in very limited events that are played overseas for them. Does this show a flaw in the OGWR and maybe the events played overseas shouldn't receive the same amount of points as events played in the US, as the events in the US certainly seem harder for those guys to win? Probably not the topic for this thread and might be a thread to itself, which there may be one already, never looked. Top 4 have 40 wins total, 3 in the US, Phil has 41 wins, 3 overseas. Wins since 2000, Phil 27, top 4 34. Kaymer 9 wins since 2008, Phil 7 wins.

I think what we might be seeing is a changing of the guard so to say, with Kaymer supplanting Phil and Tiger. Phil more so because he is older and stats say you will win less as you get older if you were winning before. Tiger we won't really know I think until the year is finished and see how he does and if the swing changes make a difference. Personally I think it's in his head and it may never come back. At certain points in a players career something happens and it's like a switch goes off and you lose something. Miller used to radar with his irons, then couldn't hit the broadside of a barn all of sudden. Watson was great then hit 35 and couldn't putt a ball into the hole from 3ft anymore.

 

[JB]

When one of these "best" players in the world win more than 1 major, then I will consider them in the running, but with Tiger and Phil still in the game and still winning with multiple majors, it's pretty hard to consider anyone other then those 2 as the best in the world.

I wasn't really referring to Tiger, more so Phil.

Yeah, that first post must of confused me. :bulgy-eyes:

 

[SPG40]

Way earlier in the thread someone posted a thought that is often posted in relation to Tiger and watching golf. Something along the lines of "When Tiger is being dominant, golf is so much more interesting to watch." Another one people use is "I just like to watch great golf."

I notice JB commented on the latter earlier in the thread by saying what that usually really means is "If it's Tiger playing the great golf."

I guess I don't understand why golf is that much more interesting to watch if Tiger is dominant. Aren't there a lot of guys that play great golf? I think golf on TV was kind of boring when Tiger was at his best. The coverage is almost 100% Tiger, and in a lot tournaments there wasn't a lot of drama. It was like Jordan and the Bulls. I watch more golf now than I did then. Watching all the young guys jockeying toward possible greatness pleases me. I think it's interesting, and even more compelling. It's fun to watch them succeed, and it's fun to watch them learn as they fail.

I'm not sure I've let this be known previously, but I could care less if Tiger ever plays well again, and I also think if he does come back to be fairly dominant, that it's too soon, and he needs to suffer a bit longer for being such an ass.

Kevin

I agree 100%

 

[manofoak]

I know this is an old thread but HOLY COW...Tiger's off-course antics seem to have cost him his skills also. I am insanely under-impressed with him over the past year. Looks like he will never touch the Golden Bear's records after all. But, the clock IS still ticking...so who knows.

 

[Tadashi70]

Noice, I agree 100%

I watched the interview this morning on ESPN. Although he will always be frowned upon due to his off the course escapades he is still one of my favorites. To me when Tiger is dialed in there are not many people on this planet who can compete with him. During his interview he also said "throughout my career I have taken 3 steps back to make one giant leap forward and I believe this is one of those times." The Tiger everyone used to love watching win tournaments will be back its just a matter of time.