course mgmt within your own ability. Hero, or Humble? Did you learn it and when?

[tequila4kapp]

As a result of this thread I started thinking about how should play holes. This is a corollary to TCs (?) advice about playing to the 150 marker, but I hit my 7 iron about 155-160 and under normal circumstances feel pretty confident from that distance and in. So if I subtract that number from hypothetical hole distances it becomes somewhat clear that there's really no reason to hit driver, except for longer par 4's or maybe a short par 5. A 400 yard par 4 stretches this to the limit - a 3W (235), 7i (155-60) and I'm probably a few yards short. Anything shorter than that definitely should not involve driver. Even something like a 550 par 5 breaks down comfortably as 3W (235ish), 5i (180ish), 9i (135).

 

[MarkMark]

Being a higher-handicapper, I'm thinking of trying the following rules next time out.

Drive: 3-wood unless terribly difficult to get into trouble or requires large carry. If I can get to 150-to-100 with a shorter club, do so.

Approach shot distance 6-iron or less: shoot for the center of the green

Approach shot distance 5-iron or more: layup to the best possible position to pitch on. Play for bogey, hope for par.

It will be interesting to see how many doubles and triples I can avoid, as well as whether any layups result in unexpected pars.

I just recently starting playing smarter on the course. I always went for it no matter what then i realized that my best shots come from 40-110 yards out so often I will shoot to layup there. The other thing I like about working the course in a smarter way is that I can really try and aim for something rather than just hitting it hard and hoping. You know, aiming at that 100 yard marker...don't hit it too short of that or too long of that. It's fun actually.

 

[Canadan]

I play to 100-125 for the most part. Trying to drive a 300+ yard hole is not worth all that much for me as I'll probably be dealing with a feel shot inside 50 yards (not awesome)..

I play most par 5's in three unless I've got an iron in my hand or plenty of bailout with a hybrid. I'd much rather putt for birdie than flop for eagle.

 

[McRock]

I have two great examples of this. First, I'd say that when I'm in a competition, I tend to be 'humble.' But I only say that after one year of truly having a course management game plan. And this particular year, I was in the lead in my city tournament by the 27th hole, and never more than a couple shots behind before. So for me, I had no reason to 'hero' it up. However, in league, I went for it all the time. I always tell people "it's not fun if you don't try." I wasn't horribly competitive in league, it was really just more about having fun.

Then there was the Des Moines outing. Very long dog leg par 4. For me, it's like a 4 iron tee off with a 4 iron into the green, all carry on the second shot. Caught the tee shot a little thin, tried to be humble and just try to lay up as close to the ravine as possible. Hosel rocket, not any closer, the hole (and round) went downhill from there. Sometimes being 'humble' can make me a little too lazy in what I'm trying to accomplish.

~Rock

 

[rollin]

as I continually read this thread I find alot who have "humbled" themselves or "play to thier stregnths" have done so with better results vs the other way. I think many who are newer to the game or many who have played for years but do not play much at all shuold seek such adivise if they really want to lower scores. However due to human nature, it still takes many beatings before one may realize this is the best option for lowering scores.

Also finding in some posts that it does really hurt and can be frustrating when one (like i have daone) "plays it smart" but still screws up the shot anyway. You may feel like you got punished for doing the right thing but you can always ask yourself.. "how many more screw ups would I have if I chose the other route?" I think the answer would be obvious.

I also think some of it walks a fine line between knowing when to play it smart vs satisfying the nead or risk/reward department built in to human nature and/or as some would also say, to improve on your game to make some of those shots. Their theory being that they feel how can they get better if they dont take the shots? I think there will always be just enough situations that pop up where one can take such shots but in the more forgiving situations when less risk is involved. I'm sure it will be enough times (more than you think) to put that feeling and desire at ease.

Even when one becomes good enough to succeed more often than fail at those shots it seems the better you become at this game, the more you would rather concern yourself by putting yourself at your next best shot position instead even though your capable of making the hard one. I think that is game/course mgmt that too many are blind to when it comes to realizing how it can lower scores.

 

[Hawk]

Personally, my success to failure ratio when playing a hole a little more conservatively heavily favors success. In the past, maybe not so much, but I also have worked hard on the important part of that process, which is getting the ball in hole with a wedge and a putter. For me, success is having a putt at par. I'll make some and miss some, but getting to a par four green in four because I decided to play outside myself brings doubles into play, which are the real round killers.

I think people mistake playing conservatively for swinging conservatively. I might decide that hitting my fairway wood from the rough 220 yards out is a bad idea, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to give the alternative shot my full attention.

In a perfect world I'd be able to pull off big shots, but I rarely can and that's not really the point of golf anyway.

 

[Mulligan9111]

as I continually read this thread I find alot who have "humbled" themselves or "play to thier stregnths" have done so with better results vs the other way. I think many who are newer to the game or many who have played for years but do not play much at all shuold seek such adivise if they really want to lower scores. However due to human nature, it still takes many beatings before one may realize this is the best option for lowering scores.

Also finding in some posts that it does really hurt and can be frustrating when one (like i have daone) "plays it smart" but still screws up the shot anyway. You may feel like you got punished for doing the right thing but you can always ask yourself.. "how many more screw ups would I have if I chose the other route?" I think the answer would be obvious.

I also think some of it walks a fine line between knowing when to play it smart vs satisfying the nead or risk/reward department built in to human nature and/or as some would also say, to improve on your game to make some of those shots. Their theory being that they feel how can they get better if they dont take the shots? I think there will always be just enough situations that pop up where one can take such shots but in the more forgiving situations when less risk is involved. I'm sure it will be enough times (more than you think) to put that feeling and desire at ease.

Even when one becomes good enough to succeed more often than fail at those shots it seems the better you become at this game, the more you would rather concern yourself by putting yourself at your next best shot position instead even though your capable of making the hard one. I think that is game/course mgmt that too many are blind to when it comes to realizing how it can lower scores.

Honestly, I think a lot of newer golfers are influenced by what they see the tour players doing. They see Bubba Watson trying to hit a bender around some trees and think, hey I should try that sometime. I definitely used to be this way. I used to always try and go for the green on every par 5 and hit those impossible shots around trees etc. Then my instructor took me out for a playing lesson and pretty much showed me why I wasn't getting any better score-wise. After each time I tried one of those "miracle" shots, he threw a ball down and told me to just get the ball back in play. Quite literally every time I just put the ball back in play, I lowered my score by at least 2 stokes on that hole.

Hitting those 1/1000 shots are a ton of fun, especially if done with any type of success, but to really lower your score you have to play the higher percentage shots.

 

[JTnumbers]

I always choose the Hero shot unless I'm not comfortable with the shot.

 

[rollin]

Honestly, I think a lot of newer golfers are influenced by what they see the tour players doing. They see Bubba Watson trying to hit a bender around some trees and think, hey I should try that sometime. I definitely used to be this way. I used to always try and go for the green on every par 5 and hit those impossible shots around trees etc. Then my instructor took me out for a playing lesson and pretty much showed me why I wasn't getting any better score-wise. After each time I tried one of those "miracle" shots, he threw a ball down and told me to just get the ball back in play. Quite literally every time I just put the ball back in play, I lowered my score by at least 2 stokes on that hole.

Hitting those 1/1000 shots are a ton of fun, especially if done with any type of success, but to really lower your score you have to play the higher percentage shots.

I agree with all said. We probably most all went through this. In the begining you learn to hit balls and make some decent plays and then all a sudden you tryin to make pro shots. Then you may actually make one and thats all it takes to get pounded like an idiot for years before you wake up and take that different aproach to the game.

 

[TheDoctor]

I have always tried to play sensibly, unless I am striking the ball very well and then occasionally I might go for shots that normally I wouldn't - with varying degrees of success sometimes....

Having only started playing again in the last 12 months after a long time not playing, I have usually tried to play bogey golf, although on the par 3's I do get a bit disappointed if I don't make a couple of pars during the round but this year I only managed to break 90 once. I know this is down to lack of playing time as it is consistency that I have struggled with - one example is a round I played earlier in the year which, when I checked the scores afterwards, I was 6 over for 13 of the holes, but finished 20 over, so when it went wrong, it went very wrong

Hopefully next year I will get to play more regularly and my first aim will be to break 90 (so will be finding that thread) with a view to getting down as close to 80 as I can by the end of the year

 

[Vegan702]

I don't really adhere to one or the other. By nature I am a risk taker. In my golf game I think I am proficient enough to go after most shots and most times they work out. When they don't work out it doesn't usually spell disaster, a lost shot here and there. I am sure if I played this game for a living I would analyze the situations differently, but since I play for fun and the small bets between playing partners, I would rather go the hero route than the safe route. I once heard or read a golfer hits 4 or 5 great shots a round and that is what brings them back to the course the next time, for me I know this to be true as I could shoot a really high score, but if I hit 4-5 great shots in that round I am content. A score of 75 to me played safe isn't as fun as a score of 80 with some risk taken and maybe made or not.

I play everyday with a older gentleman around 63, scratch golfer, he is down the middle, 1 or 2 putts every hole, but just a very bland game. I couldn't play that game everyday, content with pars. I need that thrill every round. I want to try and carry a 3w 230yd over water onto the green trying to get there in 2 vs going the long away around in 3 or 4.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of a persons personality vs. how they play the game. Do straight laced people in their every day lives play a safe golf game or do they take risks on the course that is opposite what they do in life? Do risk takers in every day life never play it safe on the course?

 

[livegolf]

When playing a course for the first time the I try to hit clubs the distances where I can see it land. Other than that, no rhyme or reason just depends on how I am hitting it that day and my score.

 

[wadesworld]

I once heard or read a golfer hits 4 or 5 great shots a round and that is what brings them back to the course the next time, for me I know this to be true as I could shoot a really high score, but if I hit 4-5 great shots in that round I am content. A score of 75 to me played safe isn't as fun as a score of 80 with some risk taken and maybe made or not.

I play everyday with a older gentleman around 63, scratch golfer, he is down the middle, 1 or 2 putts every hole, but just a very bland game. I couldn't play that game everyday, content with pars. I need that thrill every round. I want to try and carry a 3w 230yd over water onto the green trying to get there in 2 vs going the long away around in 3 or 4.

As one who has turned in more than my share of 100+ rounds containing 4 or 5 great shots, while the great shots keep me coming back, they don't make me satisfied. I've been making "a few great shots" most of my life, and I'm tired of it.

I want to take pride in surgically dissecting a hole. If I can talk myself out the 5-wood pulled into the trees for a double or triple and into the 7-iron, wedge for bogey or par, that will keep me coming back and happy. I feel confident the more I do it, the more the bogey will turn into a par. And then as my game improves, I can start giving the 5-wood a try as I gain more confidence that a miss will simply require a chip rather than a penalty stroke or impossible shot.

 

[BIGBALL]

Great thread! I think you have to know your game & play to your strengths - here is my example. I actually hit my driver almost always on the tee - and only for this reason... up until this year I really struggled with the driver. This year, I bought a new driver, played the cally black, and worked on a couple different shots with the driver. I can now tee the ball lower, and hit a low stinger type shot that I am almost certain will find the fairway, and on longer holes, I can still tee it up higher and hit the big ( for me! ) power fade. For whatever reason, on tee shots with hybrids, etc, my miss is fat - which is death of the tee imo. I guess the other thing is, I never go into a round saying, "I'm going to play conservative," or vice versa. I play each hole on an individual basis. If I am on a par 5, ball in the fairway, hazard in front with a 50/50 chance of getting it there, I will go for it, only because I know my wedge game is the strongest aspect of my game, and I am confident I can get it up & down and still save par. Or on a dog leg right 200 yards out, I will cut the corner because I hit a fade, and my miss is a pull, which wouldn't kill me there. But if it's a dog leg left, I'm hitting to the middle of the fairway, because if I try to hit the ball left, it's either straight, or a duck hook, and that would be death. And if on a par 4, I am only 150 yards out and in mid to heavy rough, I will probably hack it out to the fairway because I do tend to struggle out of rough - and again, I'll rely on the strength of my wedge game to help.

I have had fits lately though, because I have been finding a lot of 90-95 yard shots, which is a bit more than I can hit a lob wedge, and too little for a sand wedge. I struggle, for whatever reason, taking more club and swinging easier - just not in my DNA on less than a pitch shot lol! I really need to start working to avoid being in that situation!

 

[Heelz]

Yes indeed, great thread. I have no issues at all playing humble golf when it is needed, especially off of the tee box.

 

[rollin]

I don't really adhere to one or the other. By nature I am a risk taker. In my golf game I think I am proficient enough to go after most shots and most times they work out. When they don't work out it doesn't usually spell disaster, a lost shot here and there. I am sure if I played this game for a living I would analyze the situations differently, but since I play for fun and the small bets between playing partners, I would rather go the hero route than the safe route. I once heard or read a golfer hits 4 or 5 great shots a round and that is what brings them back to the course the next time, for me I know this to be true as I could shoot a really high score, but if I hit 4-5 great shots in that round I am content. A score of 75 to me played safe isn't as fun as a score of 80 with some risk taken and maybe made or not.

I play everyday with a older gentleman around 63, scratch golfer, he is down the middle, 1 or 2 putts every hole, but just a very bland game. I couldn't play that game everyday, content with pars. I need that thrill every round. I want to try and carry a 3w 230yd over water onto the green trying to get there in 2 vs going the long away around in 3 or 4.

It would be interesting to see a comparison of a persons personality vs. how they play the game. Do straight laced people in their every day lives play a safe golf game or do they take risks on the course that is opposite what they do in life? Do risk takers in every day life never play it safe on the course?

As one who has turned in more than my share of 100+ rounds containing 4 or 5 great shots, while the great shots keep me coming back, they don't make me satisfied. I've been making "a few great shots" most of my life, and I'm tired of it.

I want to take pride in surgically dissecting a hole. If I can talk myself out the 5-wood pulled into the trees for a double or triple and into the 7-iron, wedge for bogey or par, that will keep me coming back and happy. I feel confident the more I do it, the more the bogey will turn into a par. And then as my game improves, I can start giving the 5-wood a try as I gain more confidence that a miss will simply require a chip rather than a penalty stroke or impossible shot.

I agree with what "wadesworld" said here in response to post by "vagen". No right or wrong but just feel the same way as far as being "tired of it". I basically find it senceless to not allow my score to drop due to never before realizing how important it is to play to my stregnths. I will have just enough good shots in a round to satisfy the desires while still playing smarter. I'd much rather have the satisfaction of lower score. I've been making few great hero shots per round forever and they dont make me feel great anymore at all when I struglinh to break 90 again. I'd take um all back to even mach my low of 86 again. Perhaps when I'm a 5 capper I'll take more of um

 

[rollin]

It would be interesting to see a comparison of a persons personality vs. how they play the game. Do straight laced people in their every day lives play a safe golf game or do they take risks on the course that is opposite what they do in life? Do risk takers in every day life never play it safe on the course?

i dunno what the answer to that would be. But one may say it actually harder or takes more to play it smart/safe than it does to take risks (as far as golf). Its actually easier imo to just get up there and say "go for it" vs "play it smart". This is probably why soo many take the beatings far too many times for far too long before changing the plan of attack.

 

[dhill]

Originally Posted by Vegan702

It would be interesting to see a comparison of a persons personality vs. how they play the game. Do straight laced people in their every day lives play a safe golf game or do they take risks on the course that is opposite what they do in life? Do risk takers in every day life never play it safe on the course?

I find that true for me. I tend to be a more risk averse person and thus after a too many rounds fighting it I now try to stick to my game plan for every round.
That can be harder after a few bad shots when you just want to know the heck out of the ball but I'm better at controlling that right now.

At this point I just want to be more consistent ball striker so when I am playing it safe I don't flub a shot, etc and then get no benefit out of how I'm playing the safer shots.

 

[golfinFF]

I played course management today and shot my best round year to date and cut 17 strokes off my score the last round I played there.

I did not make every smart/safe shot but I did make 90-95% of them! I also played each shot as its own and hole and not the whole hole at one time.


Tapatalk killing phone batteries since day 1

 

[toughestsoldier]

I pose this question to you guys. When you find that you just made a bad shot in a situation you could laid up do you really was it really a bad decision.
As i consider ways to improve my score and playing style i ask did i make a bad decision or do I need to execute better.(General thought not a specific occassion)

 

[Scrap Iron]

I played course management today and shot my best round year to date and cut 17 strokes off my score the last round I played there.

I did not make every smart/safe shot but I did make 90-95% of them! I also played each shot as its own and hole and not the whole hole at one time.


Tapatalk killing phone batteries since day 1

Crap that is big time man. Keep it up that is awsome.

 

[wadesworld]

I pose this question to you guys. When you find that you just made a bad shot in a situation you could laid up do you really was it really a bad decision.
As i consider ways to improve my score and playing style i ask did i make a bad decision or do I need to execute better.(General thought not a specific occassion)

The key thing to consider is was there really a realistic chance of executing?

When you yank a 5-wood 2nd shot into the trees on a tight hole, think about how much chance you had to put the ball on the green or miss where you want. From that distance, for a lot of us, the answer is probably less than 40%. Lets be honest, we really don't know where that 5-wood is going.

If you lay up, there's likely northwards of an 85% chance your third shot will be on the green.

 

[golfinFF]

Crap that is big time man. Keep it up that is awsome.

Thank Scrap Iron, I have been playing terrible golf most of this yr. and just decided when I went out yesterday to play safe golf and see what happens. It also helped I took my range finder out with me(first time) it gave me a great reference if I should go for it or just lay up. Between the range finder and gps app I had all the information I needed on every shot.

I pose this question to you guys. When you find that you just made a bad shot in a situation you could laid up do you really was it really a bad decision.
As i consider ways to improve my score and playing style i ask did i make a bad decision or do I need to execute better.(General thought not a specific occassion)

When I played yesterday I considered what my chances were of hitting that perfect shot from the lie I had. If I didn't like the odds I chose a different shot. On the few bad shots I hit I still was happy cause they were still in play and I knew I made the right decision just poorly executed the shot.



Tapatalk killing phone batteries since day 1

 

[rollin]

I pose this question to you guys. When you find that you just made a bad shot in a situation you could laid up do you really was it really a bad decision.
As i consider ways to improve my score and playing style i ask did i make a bad decision or do I need to execute better.(General thought not a specific occassion)

I think this is the magic question or as many have posted in this thread in thier own opinions that some feel as if they nead to take certain shots in order to get better at them. In other words they feel " how can I improve if I dont take the shots?". .

First off you are a 10 capper and that is much better than most golfers who ever play the game. With that in mind you are more capable than most at succeeding at such shots. So these decisions are probably a bit easier to make for you vs others who can not shoot continuous low 80's nor even dare reach high 70's.

The only thing I would usually say to someone who questions about how will they get better if they dont take the shots is this. I feel there will always be just enough long shots to take where the situation is less risky as far as miss hits are concerned. This should give anyone enough practice at such shots until you get good enough to make them more often than not. And then when a siuation arises where you are faced with a big shot with the higher risk it may now be more practicle to do so.

I think it all comes down to risk reward and for what reasons. What is the risk vs the reward? Am I trying this shot just for satisfaction of making it? Am I going to be more pissed about screwing it up vs not taking it? Will making it give me one of my best scores for a round? Will screwing it up give me one of my worst scores for a round? Then there is other things like perhaps for arguement sake you may be better with a wedge from 80 yards out than you are at chipping from 15 yards out in high grass. So you made the shot, you cleared the corner or made the big hazzard but its not on the green. Would you rather be left with your favorite 80 yard wedge or your least favorite chipping situation? Did you want to you play to your stregnths or experiment? How often will you do it? Is ther any real reason to take it?etc ..... I can go on and on. There is no right or wrong but one thing for sure is that most mid and probably all high cappers who learn to play humble will lower thier scores.

 

[rollin]

I was thinking about this topic again and how being humble, playing my stregnths, or playing/managing what is given helped me on one specific hole my last round. It was a 470yrd p5, fairly sharp dog leg left that hooks itself around water and swamp. This is certainly reachable in two for me but the second shot would be long and perfect as there is little if any at all room for error.

At the end of the hole the fairway narrows and really turns pretty hard left into the fairly small green. Anything more than 5 to 8 yrds or so off the green on ither side and you are in swamp or tall fescue. You need to be on or very close for it to work or its costing strokes as it is a high risk shot.

So i end up with hit a great drive about 270 which carries a left side bunker and put me left side farway and left me with a 4 or 5 iron to cut across the swamp to the green. I am basically in the spot where a really good consistant golfer (which I am not) would want to be on this hole to go for it in two. But for me just far too much risk.

So i decided to hit an 8 iron to that last turn of the farway with a fairly forgiving landing area and which would leave me about 50 to 60 yard wedge to the green. I hit a good 8 to that spot and then a wedge on and then 1 putted for bird. Even if i misshit the wedge off the geen a bit I could have still had shot at par.

I am so glad I "managed" this hole because not too long ago I would have went for that 4 or 5 iron and more often then not ended up in the water and swamp that I had to cross over which would have left me only a few yards closer from where I was, another storke down, and still faced with basically the same shot. And then being a little bit closer (probably another club legnth) i would have probably tried it again and who knows how many strokes later it could have cost me. The small green layout and its surroundings are just not forgivable enough on this one.

I am also glad for another reason. Was shooting upper 80's (86 low on two ocassions) about 5 yrs ago and due to hardly any golf since till this season I havn't been able to get back there. Although not been able to get it done yet this year i did manage two 90's and two 91's. I ended up with my third 90 with this round. Had I played that p5 without being humble i probably would have been mid 90's again with not much to be proud of or any real shot at getting back to 80's.

It gave me a real shot at braking 90 again. I duffed a par 3 tee shot on 17 over to the womens tee box but still managed to saved par with a 2 from there. Now here I am lying 2 on 18 green and 5 foot putt for brid and an 89. I actually been 1 and 2 putted all day except for two 3 putts. After all the good days putting from everywhere on most the greens i mange to miss this 5footer for an 89 on hole 18. aaarrrrggg!! lol But you all know too much how that goes.

Anyway point being, managing that hole and being humble there on that p5 among couple other holes that day really helped giving me the oportunity to score 80's again. Now, if I can just get rid of the total "blow-up" holes inbetween my humble pars and bog's I'll be OK. lol