Slow Play Idea?

[Tadashi70]

Sorry I can't get down with this idea of alternate shot to speed up play. If anything it slows play.

Play ready golf, grab clubs and walk your ball. Don't travel in packs as each person hits. Move up a set of tees! Take a lesson or two and learn how to hit the ball. Be aware of the groups in front and behind you. Pay Marshall's to do their job. Stop hiring the walking dead. Get lessons!!!!

 

[LargePhil]

Sorry I can't get down with this idea of alternate shot to speed up play. If anything it slows play.

Play ready golf, grab clubs and walk your ball. Don't travel in packs as each person hits. Move up a set of tees! Take a lesson or two and learn how to hit the ball. Be aware of the groups in front and behind you. Pay Marshall's to do their job. Stop hiring the walking dead. Get lessons!!!!

This!

 

[Tcm68]

That sounds like the perfect plan right there.

Signed,
No one ever.

Golf is a sport for all, not just elitist who feel money trumps all.

Ok Apparently you completely missed the sarcasm in this post. That's my point is half the replies in whole thread are exclusive opinions. I mean one guy actually suggested you need to pass a test before you are allowed to play???

 

[Xarraan]

Sorry hard to hear the tone of sarcasm on a forum

 

[Jman]

Sorry I can't get down with this idea of alternate shot to speed up play. If anything it slows play.

Play ready golf, grab clubs and walk your ball. Don't travel in packs as each person hits. Move up a set of tees! Take a lesson or two and learn how to hit the ball. Be aware of the groups in front and behind you. Pay Marshall's to do their job. Stop hiring the walking dead. Get lessons!!!!

There it is, RIGHT there.

 

[Drumdog]

An interesting idea...yes.
But, I hate it and would never play at a course that mandated that.
I doubt they would stay in business long.
Of course, I could be wrong, but I do know they would not get a dime from me.

 

[Fourputt]

I understand where your coming from. I guess I just like to play devils advicate. I think sometime people tend to come across with the attitude that everyone else just bend over backwards to make their lives easier. Just defending those who may be out there trying to enjoy there day off without rushing because the guy behind them is in a hurry. I mean some of these posts actually are suggesting that the game is morphed into something completely different to conform to their personal style of play. Getting home to be with your kid is actually a good reason to hurry. Sorry to single out your post.

Or maybe you have to decide what's more important to you, playing golf or spending time with your kids. :confused2:

Sorry I can't get down with this idea of alternate shot to speed up play. If anything it slows play.

Play ready golf, grab clubs and walk your ball. Don't travel in packs as each person hits. Move up a set of tees! Take a lesson or two and learn how to hit the ball. Be aware of the groups in front and behind you. Pay Marshall's to do their job. Stop hiring the walking dead. Get lessons!!!!

How can alternate shot possibly slow down play, when it's the equivalent of four players playing as a twosome? That makes no sense at all. Alternate shot is actually quite fun and challenging, but I wouldn't want to play it all of the time, and certainly not with a group of strangers.

I'm all for ready golf, it's the only way I play. Even our Men's Club tournaments were played that way. If you are playing at a proper pace, you should never have to worry about the players behind you, aside from the possible single coming up behind you when the course is open. For most of us, that is the least of our worries. Ready golf is just a small part of a complete pace of play program.

 

[kozmo]

Intresting idea.... I think this is a good concept, but don't think it would catch on at all. I do agree that someone has to do something about the amount of time a round takes on a busy weekend... but I don't think this is it. People need to just play "ready golf", but I don't think alot of golfers really know how or what "ready golf" means. I think there should be a "free" ready golf class to teach golfers how to do this. I don't think you can make it manditory, but just give golfers the option to take a class to help the game out and help keep pace. I think it would help.

 

[rollin]

Although I didn't read through every posting, my first thought to speed up play is for all of us "non-pro" golfers to play from the correct tees. Too many times I see folks playing from the wrong tees because their ego's allow them to think "yup, I can add 600 yards to the corse and shoot par" when in reality par is still a ways off, even if they tee it forward. Playing from the tees best suited to your current skill level will help to speed up play (less strokes = less time) and make the game more enjoyable!

As for the pros, I'm sorta' okay with some slightly slower rounds. After all, that's how they make a living and when several thousands of dollars are on the line, taking a few extra seconds on each shot may be the difference!!!

This is not totaly off topic at all but at risk of begining a different debate i dont think tee positions should be based on skill/talent level but should be based on how far one can hit. That is also even how I read it explained in the so called and suggested "tee it forward" program. Shooting 90's i am not real good at all but I can and do hit long. Should i be forced to only hit driver/long chip or short pitch on every average legnth par4's because i'm not consistant. Should i play the foward tee's and 2nd shot aproach all holes inside 75 yards? Should I be forced to do that on sooo many holes simply because I screwed up on a bunch other ones? It cant be about skill level, it has to be about distance when determining tee's.

With that said and As I said previously (although for different reasons) i can shoot 90's and 102 and do it in under 4 hrs if thats what the pace is by others. I will keep up just fine. I can also do it from the blues (tips) too. I dont play the tips but on rare ocassion when the other all 3 are playing them I will too. Even though not real good but again certainly long enough and in that rare situation i will still keep pace. Again, thats not about skill, its about distance.

And its all not about ones talent but is about knowing how to move your a$$ and actually doing it. its that simple when it comes to pace of play..

 

[Fourputt]

This is not totaly off topic at all but at risk of begining a different debate i dont think tee positions should be based on skill/talent level but should be based on how far one can hit. That is also even how I read it explained in the so called and suggested "tee it forward" program. Shooting 90's i am not real good at all but I can and do hit long. Should i be forced to only hit driver/long chip or short pitch on every average legnth par4's because i'm not consistant. Should i play the foward tee's and 2nd shot aproach all holes inside 75 yards? Should I be forced to do that on sooo many holes simply because I screwed up on a bunch other ones? It cant be about skill level, it has to be about distance when determining tee's.

With that said and As I said previously (although for different reasons) i can shoot 90's and 102 and do it in under 4 hrs if thats what the pace is by others. I will keep up just fine. I can also do it from the blues (tips) too. I dont play the tips but on rare ocassion when the other all 3 are playing them I will too. Even though not real good but again certainly long enough and in that rare situation i will still keep pace. Again, thats not about skill, its about distance.

And its all not about ones talent but is about knowing how to move your a$$ and actually doing it. its that simple when it comes to pace of play..

At the same time, if you can't keep your driver in play, maybe you shouldn't be playing a tee set which requires the driver on every hole (That is the generic "you", not the specific one). That does slow play to a crawl. There is nothing I hate much worse than standing on the tee watching the group in front of me searching for the same one or two players' balls in the weeds on every hole as the group in front of them steadily widens the gap. If you can't hit the driver, the place to learn is on the range, not on the course on a busy weekend. The rules of golf don't require that you play driver on every par 4 and par 5.

 

[oiler3535]

I don't think I'd ever play a course that mandated type of play, though if I did I think scramble would be a good one.

I think the problem is that people want to play courses like the pros, so they're constantly in trouble, which takes lots of time. Minimize hazards and play would speed up (though then people would complain about boring courses of course).

Enforcing fast play by pros would work too. First groups out have 1:20 per 6 holes (4hr round). If by hole 4 tee they're over 40 minutes (or 1:20 at hole 7, etc.), they get on the clock and if 4 holes later they're not back on track, 1 stroke penalty, and by 7 holes later if still not back on pace a 2 stroke penalty. Next step is DQ if still over by the end of the round. If put on the clock, one or more player can request a timer (it's the pros, they can have a ref available if needed) if they think it's unfair. If one player takes significantly more than the other(s) only that person is penalized (if pairs, I'd say if the time when they're away to when they hit is double the other player through 3 holes, they'd be defined as 'problem slow', in bigger groups it would be more complicated). After that first group, any group that falls a full hole behind (not par 3) is subject to same penalties.

 

[rollin]

At the same time, if you can't keep your driver in play, maybe you shouldn't be playing a tee set which requires the driver on every hole (That is the generic "you", not the specific one). That does slow play to a crawl. There is nothing I hate much worse than standing on the tee watching the group in front of me searching for the same one or two players' balls in the weeds on every hole as the group in front of them steadily widens the gap. If you can't hit the driver, the place to learn is on the range, not on the course on a busy weekend. The rules of golf don't require that you play driver on every par 4 and par 5.

firstly I hope it didnt sound like an argument with you when i responded. It is simply meant as discussion/debate in friendly way so hope it wasnt taken another way. Thats one draw back of writing vs verbal in person communication. and we are most afterall seeking similar goals with this topic. Different views but similar goals.

Anyway I personaly (and i know you didnt mean me in specific) use my driver an average 8 to 10 times per round depending where I play. I base that decision on legnth/hazards/difficultiness/lay-ups/etc...so i for one am not taking my driver out on every p4 and p5 because it is not necessary for me to do so especially because i can hit fairly long.

My driving just happens to be better part my game but that dont mean i dont have bad days with it. I can have plenty and I can be all over with it on those days but when i am doing that I will keep pace. If poor driving continues for me for couple few holes in a row and if i or the group I'm with are slow and if the group ahead is getting away I will always do the things necesary to keep pace. I will not look long at all for balls, I will walk very fast, i will have very short preshot routine, etc... i will make the changes necessary to do what it takes to keep pace with group ahead of us and if a group is on our tail. You just nead to know how to move along. Its not hard. I've done it plenty. I could be on my way to hitting 4th shot while waiting for another to hit 2nd.

With that said I will chose to do that instead of puting my driver away because I want to get the good ball-striking back with my driver. As long as i know how to still keep pace then i shouldnt be forced to put my driver away. I dont know if/when i'll be getting to a range and also want to work on getting it right it in the real golf play besides.

I know I keep repeating this but its so simple. Its all about knowing how to move, being conscious of it, what to do about it, what changes to make, understanding it, and then actually being able to go out and friggin execute the actual moving along part regardless of skill level, which is all what alot of people just simply fail at actually doing for some reason.

 

[ArmyGolf]

The myth that you cannot walk past the ball of whoever is 'away' doesnt help. Especially when 1 member of a group is struggling.

 

[oiler3535]

The myth that you cannot walk past the ball of whoever is 'away' doesnt help. Especially when 1 member of a group is struggling.

IDK. I play with a bunch of people that I wouldn't walk one inch in front of their ball without a cup and helmet. If close enough, I might bring my clubs to my ball and pick a club, but I'd be backing up before they hit. When playing with people I know unlike to shank it I will, but can't see it as something to always do.

 

[Tadashi70]

Or maybe you have to decide what's more important to you, playing golf or spending time with your kids. :confused2:



How can alternate shot possibly slow down play, when it's the equivalent of four players playing as a twosome? That makes no sense at all. Alternate shot is actually quite fun and challenging, but I wouldn't want to play it all of the time, and certainly not with a group of strangers.

I'm all for ready golf, it's the only way I play. Even our Men's Club tournaments were played that way. If you are playing at a proper pace, you should never have to worry about the players behind you, aside from the possible single coming up behind you when the course is open. For most of us, that is the least of our worries. Ready golf is just a small part of a complete pace of play program.

The OP suggested that during busy times groups play as a foursome. So if 4 singles get paired and don't know each other, this format would take forever. More bad shots would be played as nerves would set it.

I agree alternate shot is great by when I choose to play no as a way to speed up play. Make sense now?!

 

[KyleBob]

decent ideas perhaps but as you said, will never work and would also be very problematic for far too many reasons to mention.
In a "perfect world" as you put it, we wouldn't have this issue in the first place. People would understand how to keep respectable, enjoyable pace and actually be capable of making the adjustments necessary to do it. Just because one had a lesson does not at all suggest they will keep pace. This again refers to the assumtion that a less talented player is the cause of slow play which is often enough not true.

Besides, If one were tested on etiquite and passed that still doesnt mean they would implant it and carry it out when they play. And knowing and following golf's rules by the book would for sure actually slow us all down even more on the weekends. Things like not to drop and hit vs back to the tee, or putting out of turn, or actually taking the full 5 mins to search for a ball, etc, and etc... do not lead to or help the "ready golf" favored style we nead to do to maintain the pace in the first place.

Sorry I should have been more specific, I was trying to keep it brief earlier. What I meant by educating new golfers on etiquette meant the stuff that pertains to pace of play - not so much getting bogged down with knowing the rule book.

Stuff like hitting from the set of tees that fit your game, playing ready golf (especially around & on the green), being ready to hit within 30 seconds when it's your turn, not waiting in a cart while your partner hits and then driving 10 yards over to your ball, parking the cart in a logical place at the green so you get off the green quickly, waiting til you arrive at the next tee box before recording scores...etc, etc...

Most culprits of these slow play crimes are simply not properly educated; they learn by watching PGA Tour pros do 2 minute pre-shot routines. Let's get people to realize that playing quickly (not rushing) often leads to playing better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fourputt]

The OP suggested that during busy times groups play as a foursome. So if 4 singles get paired and don't know each other, this format would take forever. More bad shots would be played as nerves would set it.

I agree alternate shot is great by when I choose to play no as a way to speed up play. Make sense now?!

But any way you look at it, four guys scattering 2 balls is still going to be faster than 4 guys scattering 4 balls. Don't get me wrong, I'm not behind the suggestion. I want to play my own ball just as much as anyone else in this thread, but I know how to do that and keep a better than 4 hour pace without hurrying.

Courses have to start taking the problem seriously and providing education for the people who play there, including (and especially) those who only play once or twice a year. They need to have the starter posted at the first tee to give instructions to each group, or a first tee host who has that task, and then rangers out on the course to make sure that the pace is maintained, passively when possible by being visible, but interceding when necessary to enforce the policy. If the players are informed up front that this is how the course is run, then they have no legitimate argument when they are prodded to catch up. If that means that you sacrifice a couple of balls instead of taking 5 minutes for a search, then so be it. If you have an issue with the policy, then play in off peak hours when you can let others play through, or find a course which doesn't care if you take 5 hours to play. If more courses get behind such a program, then more golfers learn how to play efficiently, and eventually it becomes the standard. Players who believe in the program will only play on courses where the pace is good, and courses which don't join up will be left behind. But it has to start somewhere, and I think that the best thing the individual player can do is complain to the course management, and keep complaining and encourage his friends to follow suit, until the management takes notice.

This site (Play240Golf) is trying to address the situation by offering materials and education for both players and course management. I sincerely hope it catches on.

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

Unless I'm missing something... I checked Muirfield's website and all of their morning tee times are listed as '4 Ball', not Foursomes. (see tee-times on the right at link above).

'4 Ball' or Fourball is defined as follows (from Wikipedia)...

Fourball is allowed in the morning and Foursomes is in the afternoon play, most likely to allow golfers who want the 'recreational and historical experience' of playing at Muirfield, but really aren't that good and just want to play some place semi-famous. Me, I'll pass on this format.

Wow, Good find! Fourball ALLOWED in the mornings? I was told it was foursome only, but apparently that was patently wrong. Please delete this entire thread since Fourball is allowed in the mornings. Good job, GEEK. Wikipedia and everything. I'm sure HCEG is devastated you decided not to play their course. It's one of the most well known courses in the world, by the way, and I don't think I can agree with your assumptions about the club. For starters, they have a handicap requirement, so there really isn't a concern to allow golfers not "that good" to play in one format or another.

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

The OP suggested that during busy times groups play as a foursome. So if 4 singles get paired and don't know each other, this format would take forever. More bad shots would be played as nerves would set it.

I agree alternate shot is great by when I choose to play no as a way to speed up play. Make sense now?!

I enjoy your posts, but I don't understand why you think 4 strangers playing foursomes would be slower than playing their own ball. It's half the shots. Even considering nerves, half is a lot. It's definitely an unpopular suggestion, but I don't think I can agree it would be slower than stroke play.

 

[rollin]

.

This site (Play240Golf) is trying to address the situation by offering materials and education for both players and course management. I sincerely hope it catches on.

I checked that out and agree with all of it. good job with that and bringing it up. Its much the same as some ideas and things I've mentioned and feel strongly about. Its not really about how good you are but really more about how to move along and do the things required to keep up pace. Even if one is hitting all over, the place they can still manage to keep pace. Yes they might be rushing a bit if they are that bad that day but when one is not hitting well then "sorry" but that is the price you have to pay in addition to not hitting well. I have been there plenty and paid that price myself but i always have manged to do it. Partly because i am very conscious of it all. I do not and will not be the cause of slow play even when not hitting good. This has to be the mentality of anyone who is having a bad day striking the ball or it just wont work.

That should cover bad golfing and lesser ability players and should be followed IMO but for every single player out there who is not good and/or having bad day of ball striking who may cause slow play there is another who is good or having a good day but will be just as guilty of causing slow play and who must also follow the guidlines posted in "240golf". In fact most of it doesnt even discuss how good one is but just tells one how to go about not taking up too much time.

I've experienced it soooo many times. Players golfing good but taking far too much time doing everything. I could be having one those bad days or maybe just few bad holes in a row, be rushing, losing balls, doing what my conscious is telling me to do to keep up, working hard at doing it, etc.. and yet still find myself waiting for a golfer who is better or having a good day. Its mind boggling to me how so many players just can not get it in thier darn heads and for some reason just do not know how to move along. And then some how magically and truely believe that because they are hitting good that there is no way they are the slow one. Take forever at thier ball and then if they should go in the woods or weeds, whatever, they will spend forever searching and searching. Then get to the green afterwards and take minutes to clean the ball, set up, line it up, walk/move like a turtle doing it all, etc... oooooh its agrivating. Theres times i'll shoot a 98 and I've had to tell others that we nead to pick up the pace. Can and should that even be possible? No, but sadly it is.

 

[rollin]

there is one area of this discussion that i wonder and must ask because its matter of respect and veru touchy subject. What about people who may be up in age and although understand all of this are just not able to move along quick enough and can be causing slower play? I have seen this too and i'm sure others have witnesssed it as well and dont think there is an answer for it. What to do for that situation?
All the rules and suggestions etc... will not help this situation. But this does happen. For me, i would have to respect it and see no other way or do nothing else about it. I would never ever suggest that they not be playing nor suggest that they pick up and skip a hole either. I have too much respect to ever do that and would not be fair. I will gladly (out of respect) wait, be patient, and expect to be in for a longer round for such a reason. This can also be you, me or a loved one, one day. It is what it is.

 

[deleebar]

I also see the "getting more people to play" vs "slow play" paradox. All of us were beginners at some point, and I'm still learning the game shooting low 90s and high 80s. But just mathematically, a beginner shooting 120 is going to take longer than me...that's 30 more shots and pre-shot routines.

What's the solution? I don't know, and given the number of replies, I'm not sure anyone knows. We can differentiate munis for 100+ shooters, but that just seems like it'll further alienate beginners to golf...and give it even the greater sense of pretentiousness

I do like the idea (mentioned earlier) about having a "certified golfer" through training on pace of play and etiquette. And providing discounts and privileges for these golfers. This would be accessible to everyone, maybe even a quizzed online class. I'm sure most beginners take their etiquette knowledge from watching the pros, and this class can enforce the differences between them and us. You don't always have to play away, or walkout your pitch. Play ready golf.

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[oiler3535]

there is one area of this discussion that i wonder and must ask because its matter of respect and veru touchy subject. What about people who may be up in age and although understand all of this are just not able to move along quick enough and can be causing slower play? I have seen this too and i'm sure others have witnesssed it as well and dont think there is an answer for it. What to do for that situation?
All the rules and suggestions etc... will not help this situation. But this does happen. For me, i would have to respect it and see no other way or do nothing else about it. I would never ever suggest that they not be playing nor suggest that they pick up and skip a hole either. I have too much respect to ever do that and would not be fair. I will gladly (out of respect) wait, be patient, and expect to be in for a longer round for such a reason. This can also be you, me or a loved one, one day. It is what it is.

My course (being shorter than most and relatively inexpensive) has a lot of seniors. And while some are extremely impressive (I know 3 guys and 1 woman who can still shoot their age while being in 80s and 1 90s), I know what you mean. Luckily, in my experience, most are wise enough that they have carts and move along quickly. And many on my course will let 1 group go through on every hole after they hit their tee shots. Seems a pretty damn good compromise to me.

P.S. An addition to my earlier post re: pro rules, I think they should each get 2-3 timeouts like in curling where they get 30-60 seconds to think about a shot.

 

[TheGeekGolfer]

Wow, Good find! Fourball ALLOWED in the mornings? I was told it was foursome only, but apparently that was patently wrong. Please delete this entire thread since Fourball is allowed in the mornings. Good job, GEEK. Wikipedia and everything. I'm sure HCEG is devastated you decided not to play their course. It's one of the most well known courses in the world, by the way, and I don't think I can agree with your assumptions about the club. For starters, they have a handicap requirement, so there really isn't a concern to allow golfers not "that good" to play in one format or another.

Wow...sarcasm much. Simply clarifying...but, thanks for the awesome props on my on my astute usage of Wikipedia...you da man!

Tap

 

[Smallville]

I also see the "getting more people to play" vs "slow play" paradox. All of us were beginners at some point, and I'm still learning the game shooting low 90s and high 80s. But just mathematically, a beginner shooting 120 is going to take longer than me...that's 30 more shots and pre-shot routines.

What's the solution? I don't know, and given the number of replies, I'm not sure anyone knows. We can differentiate munis for 100+ shooters, but that just seems like it'll further alienate beginners to golf...and give it even the greater sense of pretentiousness

I do like the idea (mentioned earlier) about having a "certified golfer" through training on pace of play and etiquette. And providing discounts and privileges for these golfers. This would be accessible to everyone, maybe even a quizzed online class. I'm sure most beginners take their etiquette knowledge from watching the pros, and this class can enforce the differences between them and us. You don't always have to play away, or walkout your pitch. Play ready golf.

That's a general statement, but if they are playing ready golf, while they may take longer in theory, if they are keeping up with the pace of play, and playing ready golf it should not be a problem.

Tom Watson has mentioned (I have no link, but do remember reading it in one of several newspaper articles the Kansas City Star did on him over the years) that he likes playing with his friends who shoot 100 because they keep up better than others who shoot lower scores. So we're talking 30+ shots difference there as well. It all goes back to ready golf.