if we were not allowed to play other fairways or leave the design of the hole

[Kobey]

There is a very deep green side bunker right in front of the green (the green is wider than it is in depth), however if you are able to hit your drive up over the trees and far enough down the fairway that is to the left of hole you are suppose to be playing on, you will have a shot at the green with no bunkers or trees in your way.QUOTE]

Which side are you on, anyway?

 

[HoselRocket104]

Doesn't happen much on my old course. I remember doing it once on a hole (upper right hand corner). Took me 8 shots to get it back to the right hole. Took a 13 on the hole in a member tourney.

 

[TripleBogieTim]

White stakes tell me where I can play and where I can't.

Agreed

 

[rollin]

Picture this just for fun.
Here is this sport (golf) that is very popular. Your very new to golf. Dont follow it much but just started to. know little about its rules. But you decide looks fun enough that you'd like to try. You get some used clubs, start hitting balls, even get a few lessons. Learn bit more about the game and how to play, develope a swing and can manage to do so just decently enough to start hitting the course for first time. You learn some more rules and know to play the ball as it lies but it never pops up in thought or conversation about the fact you can play from another fairway.

Perhaps first time you head out with an instructer or at least someone who does know the game to help you along. You hit your first tee shot and heads over or through a tree line and on to the middle of this other fairway while people are playing there. Your thinking "oh crap", and think to yourself what am i supose to do? You partner walks with you and waits for the others on that hole to play. The coast is now clear and you get to the ball and he advises you what club to use for this shot and what to do.

You think to yourself and say to him, "What do you mean?" "I can play the ball from here?" " but I'm on thier hole" . He says "yea, you play it from right here". You say- "wow, really?", "thats kind of wierd", "i thought I was out of play or something" "shouldnt I be over there on that first hole?", "I can jus hit here and thats ok?". He says- "yea its ok if its where your shot went as long as not out of bounds" ......hmmmm....Now wether you might then think that this is pretty cool or not you must admit it would be a bit strange and against logic to actually learn you can hit from there.

You just missed the intended target area by a very wide margine, playing on someone elses hole and yet its all just dandy and perfectly legal. I would think it would certainly throw up a question mark in your head. Its really not so crazy to think the game should'nt be played that way. And yes i know its not the rules but I find it interesting to think about it.

 

[spino]

If by design then would be just fine because it was by design and intended to be that way for those holes.

if your only concern is the design of the course, the solution is pretty simple, i think: white stakes exist, and they are part of the design.

moreover, do not forget what this game is about:

"The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground
into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules."

 

[blugold]

Picture this just for fun.
Here is this sport (golf) that is very popular. Your very new to golf. Dont follow it much but just started to. know little about its rules. But you decide looks fun enough that you'd like to try. You get some used clubs, start hitting balls, even get a few lessons. Learn bit more about the game and how to play, develope a swing and can manage to do so just decently enough to start hitting the course for first time. You learn some more rules and know to play the ball as it lies but it never pops up in thought or conversation about the fact you can play from another fairway.

Perhaps first time you head out with an instructer or at least someone who does know the game to help you along. You hit your first tee shot and heads over or through a tree line and on to the middle of this other fairway while people are playing there. Your thinking "oh crap", and think to yourself what am i supose to do? You partner walks with you and waits for the others on that hole to play. The coast is now clear and you get to the ball and he advises you what club to use for this shot and what to do.

You think to yourself and say to him, "What do you mean?" "I can play the ball from here?" " but I'm on thier hole" . He says "yea, you play it from right here". You say- "wow, really?", "thats kind of wierd", "i thought I was out of play or something" "shouldnt I be over there on that first hole?", "I can jus hit here and thats ok?". He says- "yea its ok if its where your shot went as long as not out of bounds" ......hmmmm....Now wether you might then think that this is pretty cool or not you must admit it would be a bit strange and against logic to actually learn you can hit from there.

You just missed the intended target area by a very wide margine, playing on someone elses hole and yet its all just dandy and perfectly legal. I would think it would certainly throw up a question mark in your head. Its really not so crazy to think the game should'nt be played that way. And yes i know its not the rules but I find it interesting to think about it.

That's the beauty of golf though. There is no one way to play a hole.

 

[Kobey]

Picture this just for fun.
Here is this sport (golf) that is very popular. Your very new to golf. Dont follow it much but just started to. know little about its rules. But you decide looks fun enough that you'd like to try. You get some used clubs, start hitting balls, even get a few lessons. Learn bit more about the game and how to play, develope a swing and can manage to do so just decently enough to start hitting the course for first time. You learn some more rules and know to play the ball as it lies but it never pops up in thought or conversation about the fact you can play from another fairway.

Perhaps first time you head out with an instructer or at least someone who does know the game to help you along. You hit your first tee shot and heads over or through a tree line and on to the middle of this other fairway while people are playing there. Your thinking "oh crap", and think to yourself what am i supose to do? You partner walks with you and waits for the others on that hole to play. The coast is now clear and you get to the ball and he advises you what club to use for this shot and what to do.

You think to yourself and say to him, "What do you mean?" "I can play the ball from here?" " but I'm on thier hole" . He says "yea, you play it from right here". You say- "wow, really?", "thats kind of wierd", "i thought I was out of play or something" "shouldnt I be over there on that first hole?", "I can jus hit here and thats ok?". He says- "yea its ok if its where your shot went as long as not out of bounds" ......hmmmm....Now wether you might then think that this is pretty cool or not you must admit it would be a bit strange and against logic to actually learn you can hit from there.

You just missed the intended target area by a very wide margine, playing on someone elses hole and yet its all just dandy and perfectly legal. I would think it would certainly throw up a question mark in your head. Its really not so crazy to think the game should'nt be played that way. And yes i know its not the rules but I find it interesting to think about it.

Picture this for fun? I don't have to. That is almost exactly my story. When I started I played from the other fairway anyway, even though I just knew it had to be against one of the rules. The way I figured out it was legal was when I saw Tiger do it on TV. I was shocked that he didn't get some kind of penalty or have to move the ball back into his own fairway, so I did some research on it and found out it's legal.

 

[SharkHat]

I'm sorry, but what rampant problem are we trying to fix again? I just don't really understand why this a problem at all.

If you don't want to play from the wrong fairway, pick your ball up and bring it back to the hole you're playing.


Edit to add - it should be noted that on the first hole of the DFW Invitational I played my second shot from the middle of the driving range.

 

[blugold]

I'm sorry, but what rampant problem are we trying to fix again? I just don't really understand why this a problem at all.

If you don't want to play from the wrong fairway, pick your ball up and bring it back to the hole you're playing.


Edit to add - it should be noted that on the first hole of the DFW Invitational I played my second shot from the middle of the driving range.

First, no problem, just a discussion.

Second, want to speed up play? Make everybody play from the driving range.

 

[rollin]

if your only concern is the design of the course, the solution is pretty simple, i think: white stakes exist, and they are part of the design.

moreover, do not forget what this game is about:

"The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground
into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules."

Just because white stakes exist does not mean there could not have been a rule of not being allowed to play another fairway. And if the rules could have been or were always different from the start then we would have grown use to the way it was played all along and would all seem very normal to us. Especially because (like it or not) one can ceratinly say it does make some logical sense if we wernt allowed to do it. It wouldnt IMO have changed what the game is about at all. Just simply played with a different rule. There are rules now that many believe are rediculous. Why would it ever been so bad to have always had this hypothetic rule which is one that actually could be easily understood as to why it would exist?

Picture this for fun? I don't have to. That is almost exactly my story. When I started I played from the other fairway anyway, even though I just knew it had to be against one of the rules. The way I figured out it was legal was when I saw Tiger do it on TV. I was shocked that he didn't get some kind of penalty or have to move the ball back into his own fairway, so I did some research on it and found out it's legal.

And i know we both alluded to this a bit earlier and is exactly what I meant. It almost seems natural and logical that one wouldnt be allowed to do it. I just always found it strange. And believe me i'm not looking to make golf any harder for anyone including myself.

 

[blugold]

And i know we both alluded to this a bit earlier and is exactly what I meant. It almost seems natural and logical that one wouldnt be allowed to do it. I just always found it strange. And believe me i'm not looking to make golf any harder for anyone including myself.

The difficulty is that you have to devise a stake system to delineate one fairway from the next. Not every course has a tree line separating holes. We can't use an "imaginary line". Too much interpretation there.

 

[rollin]

Blu, it certainly would take some figuring out in many cases. And would also be problems figuring out the line between two holes that do have alot of wooded area between them. Hitting into the woods, finding the ball to chip out or take a drop and wouldnt know if you crossed that line without any actual line being there. Certainly wouldnt be without its flaws for sure.

 

[blugold]

Blu, it certainly would take some figuring out in many cases. And would also be problems figuring out the line between two holes that do have alot of wooded area between them. Hitting into the woods, finding the ball to chip out or take a drop and wouldnt know if you crossed that line without any actual line being there. Certainly wouldnt be without its flaws for sure.

I would argue that it is nothing but flawed.

But it also goes to show how useless a rule it would be.

 

[rollin]

You know what could sound somewhat flawed and "useless" as I think about it? and even a bit funny. Is designing, building/creating an entire hole and (with exception of the teebox and the green) not having to actually play it. Sometimes depends just how one looks at things.

 

[blugold]

You know what could sound somewhat flawed and "useless" as I think about it? and even a bit funny. Is designing, building/creating an entire hole and (with exception of the teebox and the green) not having to actually play it. Sometimes depends just how one looks at things.

I will also argue this, if the hole/course designer didn't want the option to play from an adjoining fairway in place, that designer would have put a hazard in that location instead of another fairway.

 

[wadesworld]

Picture this just for fun.
Here is this sport (golf) that is very popular. Your very new to golf. Dont follow it much but just started to. know little about its rules. But you decide looks fun enough that you'd like to try. You get some used clubs, start hitting balls, even get a few lessons. Learn bit more about the game and how to play, develope a swing and can manage to do so just decently enough to start hitting the course for first time. You learn some more rules and know to play the ball as it lies but it never pops up in thought or conversation about the fact you can play from another fairway.

Perhaps first time you head out with an instructer or at least someone who does know the game to help you along. You hit your first tee shot and heads over or through a tree line and on to the middle of this other fairway while people are playing there. Your thinking "oh crap", and think to yourself what am i supose to do? You partner walks with you and waits for the others on that hole to play. The coast is now clear and you get to the ball and he advises you what club to use for this shot and what to do.

You think to yourself and say to him, "What do you mean?" "I can play the ball from here?" " but I'm on thier hole" . He says "yea, you play it from right here". You say- "wow, really?", "thats kind of wierd", "i thought I was out of play or something" "shouldnt I be over there on that first hole?", "I can jus hit here and thats ok?". He says- "yea its ok if its where your shot went as long as not out of bounds" ......hmmmm....Now wether you might then think that this is pretty cool or not you must admit it would be a bit strange and against logic to actually learn you can hit from there.

You just missed the intended target area by a very wide margine, playing on someone elses hole and yet its all just dandy and perfectly legal. I would think it would certainly throw up a question mark in your head. Its really not so crazy to think the game should'nt be played that way. And yes i know its not the rules but I find it interesting to think about it.

I think you're overstating it.

In 35+ years of golf, I've never wondered whether I could play out of another fairway. Nor have I ever had anyone ask me if they can play out of another fairway.

People just seem to realize that if it's in the boundaries of the golf course, they can take a swing at it. In fact, I'd say the problem is not that people are concerned about where they can't hit. A person is far more likely to take a swing at a out-of-bounds ball than he is to think he can't hit from another fairway.

 

[Castor Hades]

I may be killed for this one lol ...but I have a theory about this and not really a positive one in ways but just consider for a moment with some thought. By no means do I wish the game harder for myself or any of us than already is but still always had this thing to feel as though playing other fairways or leaving the designed shape of a hole should not be without penalty. In other words, being forced to play the contour of the hole itself that you are on.

(hypothetic but often real scenario with anyone) I or you tee off and hook or slice a bad one and it goes to the other fairway but ends up with a great fairway lie and a very good approach to the pin or a second shot not much worse off at all then if we had hit it straight and no consequence to suffer for the bad shot.

Again, put aside the fact it makes the game harder for a moment and just think, does this really seem right to you? I always felt no it does not. I have seen courses that have several holes back n forth with no real boundaries in between them and you can basically get away with this (if you had to) on numerous occasions. Then of course we have the holes here and there in places where you may purposely play the other fairway which to me also could be questioned here.

One player on one hole hits a long drive but way left and he's in the woods/weeds/whatever. Another player on another hole hits the same exact poor shot but in another fairway. The first guy has lost ball, stroke and distance, the second guy has shot at green with no consequences at all. Doesn't seen quite right to me if you think about it in that way.

I can make a similar case for doing it on purpose and also hitting across and over trees on a dogleg. This theory won't allow for such a shot. Must play the contour of the hole. Want to beat the dogleg? Then have the shot shaped to go around it following the contour of that hole playing its designed shape.

In either scenarios we can call it playing the intended design of each hole for what it was designed. For this hypothetic situation we would say anything other than that would be a penalty.

Should we be allowed to screw up that badly and suffer no consequence? In fact sometimes even be rewarded for it? Do it on purpose? Leave the intended design of the hole for whatever reason with no penalty?

Don't shoot me. I'm taking a chance here that you all don't think this is ridiculous but thought be interesting if anyone just might not totally disagree with even some of this logic and just may be stir up some good opinions and conversation with it.

I understand, and I don't want to sound like a douche...but:

Golf isn't fair.




I know it's not the same thing, but:

"One player on one hole hits a long drive but way left and he's in the woods/weeds/whatever. Another player on another hole hits the same exact poor shot but in another fairway. The first guy has lost ball, stroke and distance, the second guy has shot at green with no consequences at all. Doesn't seen quite right to me if you think about it in that way."

Yes...they just have different shots, maybe they both slice equally bad every time, but they are a lefty and a righty...it'll even out. But, there's a problem with this logic, golf can't be fair, is it fair that in a PGA, Web.com, national or a club event some guys get to play with good weather and the others don't?

As said...

Golf is not, and never has been, a fair game.
- Jack Nicklaus

 

[Kobey]

I will also argue this, if the hole/course designer didn't want the option to play from an adjoining fairway in place, that designer would have put a hazard in that location instead of another fairway.

That's what I said earlier. Especially if the two holes were going in opposite directions, they could put a pond in the fairway of the adjoining hole that wouldn't really affect the play of that hole, but would be very chancy for someone on the other hole to hit it over there. They could also use clumps of bushes, sand traps or other things to accomplish the same purpose. But since they don't, I guess they care more about speeding up play than keeping people following the contours of the hole.

Maybe that will be next on the agenda. If they get rid of a lot of hazards and make courses easier, they can push people through faster. Then we can complain about how boring our two hour rounds are.

 

[Wongstongs]

I'm going to have to disagree with you rollin. Part of the fun when you are playing a dog leg is guessing if you can cut it and make it over the trees/water/whateveritmaybe. You can take the risk and if you fail, you are penalized for it.

I don't really understand what is so wrong with being able play off another fairway. How many times do you actually get a better lie/angel when you are playing from a different fairway? I personally have never had one, it has always been quite the disadvantage and I get penalized for an errant tee shot.

 

[Kobey]

I'm going to have to disagree with you rollin. Part of the fun when you are playing a dog leg is guessing if you can cut it and make it over the trees/water/whateveritmaybe. You can take the risk and if you fail, you are penalized for it.

I don't really understand what is so wrong with being able play off another fairway. How many times do you actually get a better lie/angel when you are playing from a different fairway? I personally have never had one, it has always been quite the disadvantage and I get penalized for an errant tee shot.

You probably play on well designed courses then. Most of the ones I play on are risk/reward as well, but sometimes you get a course where they put all the risks on the hole you are on and no risks to go around them. I think those are the ones he has in mind, poor designs that encourage you to play the hole differently than it was intended.

 

[rollin]

Maybe that will be next on the agenda. If they get rid of a lot of hazards and make courses easier, they can push people through faster. Then we can complain about how boring our two hour rounds are

hahaha that's funny!

 

[rollin]

I think you're overstating it.

In 35+ years of golf, I've never wondered whether I could play out of another fairway. Nor have I ever had anyone ask me if they can play out of another fairway.

People just seem to realize that if it's in the boundaries of the golf course, they can take a swing at it. In fact, I'd say the problem is not that people are concerned about where they can't hit. A person is far more likely to take a swing at a out-of-bounds ball than he is to think he can't hit from another fairway.

Maybe your ight for many but I know I wasn't sure about it when I started and Kobey mentions my hypothetic story almost matches his real life experience. So I think it fair to say there are people out there who wouldn't realize this and/or be surprised by it. Perhaps not many though but still.

Agreed no one ever said it was or had to be fair. Playing in the rain and bad weather? Perhaps another topic I can speculate on...lol.. but I'll give you guys a break Hey, you brought it up. lol

I'm going to have to disagree with you rollin. Part of the fun when you are playing a dog leg is guessing if you can cut it and make it over the trees/water/whateveritmaybe. You can take the risk and if you fail, you are penalized for it.

I don't really understand what is so wrong with being able play off another fairway. How many times do you actually get a better lie/angel when you are playing from a different fairway? I personally have never had one, it has always been quite the disadvantage and I get penalized for an errant tee shot.

sure agree, it can add something to the game to take the risks on such a hole. As far as better angle and such, it does happen just enough and as others mention even doing it on purpose just for that reason. Not better off most the time but enough.

Guys/gals, I'm always gonna have an answer for my theories, don't you know me by now? lol I'm big that way LOL
You may find it hard to believe me but I am capable to accept defeat if it can be shot down but IMO I don't think this one can really ever be shot down so far as to say it 100% could never work or should never had been this way.
Of course we all know its not this way and it is what it is. What I know for certain is that we'll all be hacking away at it whatever ways it is.

 

[Wongstongs]

You probably play on well designed courses then. Most of the ones I play on are risk/reward as well, but sometimes you get a course where they put all the risks on the hole you are on and no risks to go around them. I think those are the ones he has in mind, poor designs that encourage you to play the hole differently than it was intended.

I guess I never thought of that. All the courses I play up here are basically cut out of forests. Almost every course I have played is lined with trees and fairways are separated by pine/douglas trees.

 

[Mulligan9111]

Maybe your ight for many but I know I wasn't sure about it when I started and Kobey mentions my hypothetic story almost matches his real life experience. So I think it fair to say there are people out there who wouldn't realize this and/or be surprised by it. Perhaps not many though but still.



Agreed no one ever said it was or had to be fair. Playing in the rain and bad weather? Perhaps another topic I can speculate on...lol.. but I'll give you guys a break Hey, you brought it up. lol



sure agree, it can add something to the game to take the risks on such a hole. As far as better angle and such, it does happen just enough and as others mention even doing it on purpose just for that reason. Not better off most the time but enough.

Guys/gals, I'm always gonna have an answer for my theories, don't you know me by now? lol I'm big that way LOL
You may find it hard to believe me but I am capable to accept defeat if it can be shot down but IMO I don't think this one can really ever be shot down so far as to say it 100% could never work or should never had been this way.
Of course we all know its not this way and it is what it is. What I know for certain is that we'll all be hacking away at it whatever ways it is.

It's easily shot down. There is already a system in place to prevent golfers from going and playing from where they shouldn't be playing (hazards, out of bounds markers, etc.). Other than that it's all fair game, that's golf. As Walter Hagen once said, "you can hit 3 bad shots and 1 good shot and still make par".

 

[rollin]

It's easily shot down. There is already a system in place to prevent golfers from going and playing from where they shouldn't be playing (hazards, out of bounds markers, etc.). Other than that it's all fair game, that's golf. As Walter Hagen once said, "you can hit 3 bad shots and 1 good shot and still make par".

you can technically and easily say any suggestion is easily shot down in any sport or game simply by just saying this is what the rules are and what the markers are for. But that doesn't mean it could never or would of never made any sense other ways too.