Question for those of you that play a draw. Alignment and aim related.

[Playdough]

Thank you for that. It is something I really have been thinking about a lot. I always look back over my shoulder at the flag and I think my brain just wants to make by body swing towards it. I'll try it.

Here's a way to combat that. Cookie has played a a round with me where we discussed aiming. My way of aiming is not in front of me, but an object on the background. If your looking at the flag and trying to hit a draw your going to hit a pull everytime. You will hit it where your eyes are looking. If you hit a 5 yard draw, then find a tree, sign, object something that is 5 yards right of the flag and hit at that. Then your draw will carry the ball back to the "intended" target. Cookie was asking me what I was aiming at. I would say, the third tree left in that cluster of 5 twenty yards behind the green. My stock shot should carry it back to pin high 15-18 feet right of the pin. That way I hit at that tree instead of trying to aim at the flag but hit it 5 yards right of the pin and hope that I blindly hit there.

 

[Playdough]

Thanks PD. Do you mean put a stick in the ground at an angle?

You probably would have put a little angle away from you to not hit the rod on your follow through but you want it fairly up and down to force your self to hit around the rod.

 

[Hawk]

Guess I should mention that Marc told me to put the ball more forward in my stance and it definitely helps me when I don't want to draw or hook the ball so much. I would like to hear if others position the ball differently for draw vs fade. More forward for fade, further back for draw?

I'm pretty forward in the stance for everything. In lessons, he always made me do that and it's just habit now.

Here's a way to combat that. Cookie has played a a round with me where we discussed aiming. My way of aiming is not in front of me, but an object on the background. If your looking at the flag and trying to hit a draw your going to hit a pull everytime. You will hit it where your eyes are looking. If you hit a 5 yard draw, then find a tree, sign, object something that is 5 yards left of the flag and hit at that. Then your draw will carry the ball back to the "intended" target. Cookie was asking me what I was aiming at. I would say, the third tree left in that cluster of 5 twenty yards behind the green. My stock shot should carry it back to pin high 15-18 feet right of the pin. That way I hit at that tree instead of trying to aim at the flag but hit it 5 yards right of the pin and hope that I blindly hit there.

Thanks PD. That makes sense. I need to trick the brain a little. Will be a good thing to practice on. I should probably set up on the end of the range that I don't like to force myself to learn.

 

[Wake]

Guess I should mention that Marc told me to put the ball more forward in my stance and it definitely helps me when I don't want to draw or hook the ball so much. I would like to hear if others position the ball differently for draw vs fade. More forward for fade, further back for draw?

Typically its the opposite, back in the stance for fade, forward for draw.

 

[Playdough]

I corrected my post, but I said 5 left of the pin...i actually ment right of the pin. And its not really tricking your mind..if you think that way then you will still want to look at the flag. You have to take the flag out of the aiming process. If the pin is left center and you know you hit a 5 yard draw. Then you have to pick an aim point that allows you to hit the left center of the green without ever looking at the flag once over the shot. Focus on the aim point in the distance not the flag itself.

 

[bogeybrain]

Guess I should mention that Marc told me to put the ball more forward in my stance and it definitely helps me when I don't want to draw or hook the ball so much. I would like to hear if others position the ball differently for draw vs fade. More forward for fade, further back for draw?

if im in a no draw situation I open my left foot and raise my hands up a little higher . if im trying to hook a shot around something I stand closed with the face square to where I want the ball to go and I swing on the line that I want it to start.i also put the ball back in my stance and try to keep a flat swing

 

[Hawk]

Makes sense. I think I was just under the assumption that I should be getting the push draw back to center every time and maybe that was a bit too lofty of a goal. I'm stupid.

 

[IceyShanks]

A great thread Ryan, for me I aim about right center of my target, so it's not all the way right and it's not completely center, then if my draw is a lot then I'm on the left side, if my draw is not as much then it's about center.

The only caveat to that is my weird miss from time to time is a push right, and when I'm aimed right that does not end well, so when I feel or see that shot creep in I go back to aiming center and then it's either, hopefully, on the left or right of target.

My draw get's weird from time to time though and I never know how much it's going to turn over. The closed stance has never bothered me, but an open one sure does!

 

[Playdough]

Typically its the opposite, back in the stance for fade, forward for draw.

I agree with this. I play the ball fairly far back to still hit a draw. Usually when the ball is farther forward you are delaying the impact leading to a more closed face at impact resulting in a draw...but that also depends on your release. I have a bit of an early release but alot of lag, so I can play it farther back and still hit a draw.

 

[tahoebum]

If I'm hitting a draw off the tee, which I often do with my 3 wood, I aim it about 10 yards right of where I want it to finish. Usually that is right center to right edge of the fairway. Anything more than that and it can quickly turn into a hook that can run into trouble.

When I'm hitting a draw with a short or mid iron, I move it only about 3-4 yards in the air if my swing is on.

 

[Mulligan9111]

Guess I should mention that Marc told me to put the ball more forward in my stance and it definitely helps me when I don't want to draw or hook the ball so much. I would like to hear if others position the ball differently for draw vs fade. More forward for fade, further back for draw?

I only move the ball in my stance when I want to adjust the trajectory (higher versus lower).

 

[Agent Jay]

Hawk, I was fighting this shot all day yesterday. It is not my usual ball flight, but an interesting thing happened and my guess is you (and most low handicap golfers) will have a tendency to do this as well. Minor quick back story so you know where I'm coming from. Cliff note story. Made a diving catch in a co-ed softball game just over two weeks ago and took a brunt of the landing in my right shoulder. Soooo, everything feels fine now, but when I get to the top of my swing, I'm trying to get my right arm (wrist down to my elbow) to stay more verticle. With a proper turn to the top it should (more or less) be over your right hip. However, trying to get to get to this position has been hard since that puts strain on my shoulder, that I wasn't feeling until I swing.
So this caused (me) two things in my swing, 1) I would come to the top so I would not the feel pain, and my hands (set at top) are to high, more over my right knee. 2) Since my hands are set to high you (I) can't (usually) get you hand to come back to the correct position at impact. As much as I tried to get long and deep, so my hand would come lower and from the inside, the more it hurt. Down side is my hips would still make the correct turn, firing open to fast, hands coming over the top and left it goes.
So how do you fix this?
Work on turning and getting your hands set deeper over your hip. Flexibility is the key here and hardest part about getting older. If you can get you hands deeper over you right hip, plus work on keeping your right elbow more vertical and coming down to your right hip once you start you downswing. This will force you hands to come from an inside angle. You will be able to square up your club face normally and hit to the 4 o'clock spot on the ball, rather than 2 o'clock.
I'll try to post a couple of picture of the difference at the top so you can see it from the down the line angle, if you want. (Once my boss goes to lunch in about 30 minutes)

 

[ddec]

I'm pretty forward in the stance for everything. In lessons, he always made me do that and it's just habit now.

I'm the same way with that.

I'm with you though man, I've been working hard this year on aiming more right and drawing it back in. It's been a struggle when it comes to consistency, but it's a work in progress. I've been trying to force the issue even when the hole layout doesn't fit that shot shape. So from your original question I am in the camp of starting a little right and trying to bring it back to center.

 

[Hawk]

Hawk, I was fighting this shot all day yesterday. It is not my usual ball flight, but an interesting thing happened and my guess is you (and most low handicap golfers) will have a tendency to do this as well. Minor quick back story so you know where I'm coming from. Cliff note story. Made a diving catch in a co-ed softball game just over two weeks ago and took a brunt of the landing in my right shoulder. Soooo, everything feels fine now, but when I get to the top of my swing, I'm trying to get my right arm (wrist down to my elbow) to stay more verticle. With a proper turn to the top it should (more or less) be over your right hip. However, trying to get to get to this position has been hard since that puts strain on my shoulder, that I wasn't feeling until I swing.
So this caused (me) two things in my swing, 1) I would come to the top so I would not the feel pain, and my hands (set at top) are to high, more over my right knee. 2) Since my hands are set to high you (I) can't (usually) get you hand to come back to the correct position at impact. As much as I tried to get long and deep, so my hand would come lower and from the inside, the more it hurt. Down side is my hips would still make the correct turn, firing open to fast, hands coming over the top and left it goes.
So how do you fix this?
Work on turning and getting your hands set deeper over your hip. Flexibility is the key here and hardest part about getting older. If you can get you hands deeper over you right hip, plus work on keeping your right elbow more vertical and coming down to your right hip once you start you downswing. This will force you hands to come from an inside angle. You will be able to square up your club face normally and hit to the 4 o'clock spot on the ball, rather than 2 o'clock.
I'll try to post a couple of picture of the difference at the top so you can see it from the down the line angle, if you want. (Once my boss goes to lunch in about 30 minutes)

Would definitely like to see the pictures. I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean with the deeper hands?

 

[Agent Jay]

Would definitely like to see the pictures. I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean with the deeper hands?

No problem. Once the boss leave I will get them to you.

 

[bogeybrain]

I think there is something that happens to me subconsciously if I move the ball forward in my stance. I absolutely will not draw ,hook,double double, or anything even resembling left . I have no explanation for it but it just does not happen. I almost always use the same ball postion with the exception of on different feel shots where im trying to get the ball very low or high. if I want it low I put the ball back in my stance and compress the ball.if I want it high I put it forward and finish my swing high sort of sweeping at the ball but I HAVE to stand open and keep my hands flat through impact when I put it forward in my stance or the chance of it doing what I want is zero. now that I think about it I think I might be stupid

 

[Agent Jay]

Would definitely like to see the pictures. I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean with the deeper hands?

If I knew how to make a gif I'd just do that, but I don't. Maybe I'll do a quick Agent Jay Office Tip for you! Post it to my YouTube account and link it here.

 

[bogeybrain]

Would definitely like to see the pictures. I'm not 100% sure I know what you mean with the deeper hands?

the way I take what hes saying is that instead of coming over the top with a closed face and across the ball at impact causing the left to right side spin he means being flexible enough to drop down inside the swing plane quick enough to be coming inside out through impact

 

[bogeybrain]

kinda like jim furykish

 

[Hawk]

I gotcha.

 

[fupresti]

My draw starts right of the intended target and then shapes back to point of alignment.

 

[Agent Jay]

the way I take what hes saying is that instead of coming over the top with a closed face and across the ball at impact causing the left to right side spin he means being flexible enough to drop down inside the swing plane quick enough to be coming inside out through impact

Yes, but without the funky of the take-a-way.

I'll post that YouTube video up here in a few minutes for you.

 

[KellyBo]

Typically its the opposite, back in the stance for fade, forward for draw.

That's what I've always thought but read this article.

How To Fade the Driver
Some of you have no problem fading the driver, but I will go through what Shawn Clement has to say. The way you hit a fade is very similar to how you hit a draw but with some minor adjustments. Again, line the logo of the ball up where you want it to end up. Take your stance as you did for the draw, but have the ball in a more forward position. The ball needs to be lined up on your instep rather than inside your instep. Open the face of the club ever so slightly and then hit through the ball. This should see you fade the ball.


Here's another article that is interesting about ball position.

"I often talk about the effects of ball position. Most players assume that to draw the ball you move it back and to fade it you move it forward. That is true for players who push the golf club - but for players who pull the club it's a disaster!"

Guess that clears that up. I'm more confused than ever. I think I'll just shoot for straight down the middle again. I need a lesson with my old coach in Macon. I used to hit the ball so straight. <sigh>

 

[PiratePenguin]

I currently tend to play a straight or very, very slight fade intentionally these days for control reasons, but I can draw it if I want to/need to and used to play a draw 100% of the time.

My thought is that intentionally trying to hit a push-draw brings a block into play and if you are already aiming right and it a block, bad things happen. If I aim right and hit a straight ball that then draws left, then I've taken the right side mostly out of play. It tends to be the less risky play, IMHO.

 

[Playdough]

I guess I don't understand the idea of of a push-draw. Are you trying to hit an intentional push? Meaning you are forcing yourself to hit it right of where you are aiming and then turning it over to get it back to the target? That seems like that could be wildly inconsistent..maybe I don't understand the idea of a push-draw. Help there please?