- Staff
- #251
Fix Wilson Staff
I was sure pleasantly surprised with the 3,4, and 5 Fybrids I got on-sale from rockbottomgolf.com based on people's reviews and comments on here.
I love the clubs. Hot passionate kind of love too, none of this "married 30 years" love......
I love the clubs. Hot passionate kind of love too, none of this "married 30 years" love......
- Staff
- #253
The OG Fybrids are still some of the best hybrids ever released IMO.
- Staff
- #254
agreed, the 4 is still in my possession. Easy to hit and fantastic sound
Herky
New member
As a long-time Wilson user this thread caught my eye.
However, the thread seems to perpetuate a faulty premise: how to "fix" Wilson.
Wilson doesn't need fixing. It's doing just fine, thank you very much.
This discussion is missing the big picture and lacks some context.
Wilson is a huge global sporting goods corporation and golf is only one slice of their international business.
Wilson sports equipment is used in the NFL, NCAA and MLB. The company makes sports equipment that is used in more than 100 countries. Wilson is omnipresent in baseball, football, tennis, squash and several other sports.
Wilson's main competitors are the big boys of worldwide sports -- Nike and Mizuno.
The company is much bigger (and much more profitable) than the golf-oriented companies (brands) such as Callaway, Acushnet, Cleveland/Srixon, Cobra, Ping, etc.
Can Wilson's golf division ever rival Taylormade/Addidas in the golf business? No. That's not the company's objective. Wilson can do very well with a modest, but important, share of the international golf business.
Wilson has successfully revived its legendary Staff brand in the last 20 years and continues to market its "value" sets in big-box retailers like Walmart. This is obviously a profitable strategy, otherwise Wilson wouldn't do it.
I play Wilson Staff. I don't care that they make cheap starter sets. Heck, not everyone can afford to drop $400 or $500 on a set of irons, especially the casual golfer who only plays twice a month in the summer.
So my conclusion is this:
Wilson Golf should continue to do exactly what it's doing -- making high-quality clubs under the Staff brand without spending multi-millions trying to raise its profile on tour. And it should continue to produce "entry level" equipment for the casual golfer.
By the way, my experience with Wilson Golf (U.S.) customer service has been very positive -- both on the phone and via email.
If I was lucky enough to be the CEO of Wilson I wouldn't make any dramatic changes. Wilson's on the right path and 25 years from now when 4 or 5 golf brands have folded or have been merged, Wilson will still be making quality clubs.
However, the thread seems to perpetuate a faulty premise: how to "fix" Wilson.
Wilson doesn't need fixing. It's doing just fine, thank you very much.
This discussion is missing the big picture and lacks some context.
Wilson is a huge global sporting goods corporation and golf is only one slice of their international business.
Wilson sports equipment is used in the NFL, NCAA and MLB. The company makes sports equipment that is used in more than 100 countries. Wilson is omnipresent in baseball, football, tennis, squash and several other sports.
Wilson's main competitors are the big boys of worldwide sports -- Nike and Mizuno.
The company is much bigger (and much more profitable) than the golf-oriented companies (brands) such as Callaway, Acushnet, Cleveland/Srixon, Cobra, Ping, etc.
Can Wilson's golf division ever rival Taylormade/Addidas in the golf business? No. That's not the company's objective. Wilson can do very well with a modest, but important, share of the international golf business.
Wilson has successfully revived its legendary Staff brand in the last 20 years and continues to market its "value" sets in big-box retailers like Walmart. This is obviously a profitable strategy, otherwise Wilson wouldn't do it.
I play Wilson Staff. I don't care that they make cheap starter sets. Heck, not everyone can afford to drop $400 or $500 on a set of irons, especially the casual golfer who only plays twice a month in the summer.
So my conclusion is this:
Wilson Golf should continue to do exactly what it's doing -- making high-quality clubs under the Staff brand without spending multi-millions trying to raise its profile on tour. And it should continue to produce "entry level" equipment for the casual golfer.
By the way, my experience with Wilson Golf (U.S.) customer service has been very positive -- both on the phone and via email.
If I was lucky enough to be the CEO of Wilson I wouldn't make any dramatic changes. Wilson's on the right path and 25 years from now when 4 or 5 golf brands have folded or have been merged, Wilson will still be making quality clubs.
Wilson makes incredible irons, and now I really want to hit that FG Tour driver. I was between Wilson and Adams for my most recent iron purchase - main reason I went Adams was cause I got a nice deal on them. I could easily have gone the Wilson route if a deal had popped up on the FG Tour V2 irons, they are KILLER. Haven't hit any of the other sets, but knowing Wilson I'm sure they are winners.
That's what I was thinking. Wilson Staff is something I've always kind of lumped in with Mizuno in terms of being predominately an irons company. Yeah, they make other stuff, but I feel like their bread and butter is with irons. Having hit some of their irons, they're amazing, but I've always been a little befuddled when their iron sets are $900 but full sets of Wilson clubs are $300 before I got more seriously into golf and recognized that they're two separate brands. So in terms of technology, make hybrids and irons the main focus. I think their golf balls are alright, though. They need to get some heads in their marketing department and find better naming conventions than simply how many layers the ball has. Right now their packaging, names, everything, is totally generic. Top-Flite has managed to keep their heads in the ball-game with a fairly simple naming convention and smart design. Right now WS makes a great ball, but there's nothing particularly notable about it the way Top-Flite's dimple in dimple is universal across all their balls.
Marketing would be a mix of social media and sponsoring younger golfers with an eye toward finding some up and comers who are pretty social media savvy. As part of marketing, I think they would do well to go grassroots. Sponsor high school or junior state-level tournaments. Put their clubs in the hands of young kids as often as possible.
I know a lot of people are saying to separate Wilson from WS, but I'd say join them at the hip as much as possible. Try to associate the $200 starter set a kid gets in middle school with guys playing and winning at any professional level. Their advertising should be that their product is reducing the barrier to entry. It's good for the game because it's not breaking the bank. Emphasize the Ci11 line of irons, and possibly develop an entire Ci11 line of clubs. I think Cleveland is doing a pretty smart thing with expanding the 588 brand to include more and more products, because golfers associate that 588 number with Cleveland and with tour success. WS should seek to do something similar, but right now their naming convention is all over the map, and they're just not a big enough company to succeed with a muddled message and no real idea of what's new, what's game improvement, what's tour level, what's anything really. That needs to be improved, and it's as simple as clarifying the message from the top.
Cliffs:
R&D focuses on irons
Marketing/staff is about increasing depth and youth with an emphasis on social media and small events
Establish solid synonymous naming conventions for their products; with the emphasis on youth and small events, consider more colorful packaging and audacious advertising.
A common thought in this thread is that Wilson should stop selling the starter box sets in big box retail stores such as Walmart because it hurts the brand image. I started playing golf with a Wilson box set that I loved(especially the oversized irons in the set), and I bought my Wilson Staff Ci9s because I figured the quality would be the same, if not better, and I knew I could trust the brand. It also didn't hurt that I bought my Ci9's highly discounted at about $220. My situation may be in the minority, but I can't be the only one out there. I think the Wilson box sets provide a gateway to the Wilson staff line.
Damoegan
New member
My first good set of irons were Di7's and I loved them.
I know of at least 3 single figure handicap players at my local club playing Ci11 irons.
Even my old Di7 irons went to a buddy and he is now playing off a 7.5 handicap...
I know of at least 3 single figure handicap players at my local club playing Ci11 irons.
Even my old Di7 irons went to a buddy and he is now playing off a 7.5 handicap...
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Wilson does have an identity problem, whether they like it or not. I grew up seeing the Wilson Staff line up, with there FAT SHAFT tech that never really took shape. They had a decent product and they still do, for the most part. However, in my eye (and probably others) they are a brand that is stuck in the past. If you would have asked me to name TWO Tour players who are on staff, I could. Harrington and Lawrie...but I had to think about Lawrie. I couldn't name anyone else, and I just Googled it to find all of 8 total on ALL the tours.
Brand recognition is HUGE, we all know this. When I walk thru Wal-Mart and see some clubs on the rack there from Wilson, that's not the type of product I would choose to buy. I'm not trying to knock on Wal-Mart clubs, but lets be honest with ourselves, not us are wanting to be associated with a bag full of Wal-Mart sticks.
I know some have mentioned mass product smash on the internet. That's a start, but not the key. I feel that you need to remove yourself from the stereotype that is Wilson Golf. That's easier said that done. They need to start from the ground up. Facelift the heck out of that company! New logos, new colors, new pride within the company. You need to bring the passion back for Wilson Golf with Gen X and Gen Y. You need to focus on them, that's your demographic! You want me to buy you clubs? Start by trying to regain some market share, by not making me think of Tom Hanks and white volleyball when I see you logo!
I'll be honest, you won't see me even thinking about Wilson Golf clubs until you can get some serious tech on the market. When you look and find that of the 8 Professionals "on Tour", none of them have WON an event of any sort of a Tour since 2010. It makes you stop and think. If the equipment was on par with the others...Callaway, TaylorMade, Cobra, Mizuno and such...then we would hear more about there stuff. Someone has to be the Wal-Mart brand, I get it, but if want to turn around you brand, you'll have to turn THAT perception on it's ear!
I'm probably not the man who can do that, but I know that's where you need to start!
Brand recognition is HUGE, we all know this. When I walk thru Wal-Mart and see some clubs on the rack there from Wilson, that's not the type of product I would choose to buy. I'm not trying to knock on Wal-Mart clubs, but lets be honest with ourselves, not us are wanting to be associated with a bag full of Wal-Mart sticks.
I know some have mentioned mass product smash on the internet. That's a start, but not the key. I feel that you need to remove yourself from the stereotype that is Wilson Golf. That's easier said that done. They need to start from the ground up. Facelift the heck out of that company! New logos, new colors, new pride within the company. You need to bring the passion back for Wilson Golf with Gen X and Gen Y. You need to focus on them, that's your demographic! You want me to buy you clubs? Start by trying to regain some market share, by not making me think of Tom Hanks and white volleyball when I see you logo!
I'll be honest, you won't see me even thinking about Wilson Golf clubs until you can get some serious tech on the market. When you look and find that of the 8 Professionals "on Tour", none of them have WON an event of any sort of a Tour since 2010. It makes you stop and think. If the equipment was on par with the others...Callaway, TaylorMade, Cobra, Mizuno and such...then we would hear more about there stuff. Someone has to be the Wal-Mart brand, I get it, but if want to turn around you brand, you'll have to turn THAT perception on it's ear!
I'm probably not the man who can do that, but I know that's where you need to start!
Uhh did you forget about Kevin Streelman? Plays the FG Tour V2's and won the Tampa Bay this year along with 4 other top 10's.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #262
They do have more wins this year on the PGA Tour than Mizuno I believe.
Im just not sure I buy the Walmart segment that many have spoken about. A lot of brands are sold at discount stores and are not considered lesser brands. Does one not buy Pro V1s because they also sell cheaper golf balls by Titleist at Walmart? Or TaylorMade? Or Callaway?
Im not discounting your opinion, because its obviously how you view the brand, but for me I am just not sure I think its the overall issue.
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Thanks for the head up. No, I didn't forget about Streelman. I knew after Googling and finding Wilson Golf Staff page here----> http://www.wilson.com/en-us/golf/players/ that he was playing their clubs. However, they don't seem to think it's worth noting on his player profile or even there main golf page about this win with their clubs. You would think that might be something to hang your hat on, but I guess not. So, not being a Streelman fan, I forgot about his win in Tampa...so did they?
Now this is a valid point. When you go to Bridgestone's site, there is info about Kuchar's and Snedeker's wins right on the main page banner, but on Wilson's site, no dice. When you pay somebody to use your clubs and represent your brand, make sure they actually represent your brand, ESPECIALLY when they're winning!
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Thank you for not discounting my opinion. My take (and others?) about being in Wal-Mart is the fact that we don't find Callaway, TaylorMade, or Cleveland clubs on the shelves there. Does that make them a lesser brand, no probably not. With that said, when was the last time you went and bought a driver at Wal-Mart? Golf balls are one thing as you can buy pallets of dozens of them at discount, but performance, game changing equipment off the rack at Wal-Mart? Show me your receipt?
Your right JB, it's not THE issue, but it's AN issue (IMO) that leads to many to not buy their equipment...to a degree.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #266
I dont. But neither would any serious golfer in my opinion. Therefore what they sell there according to that thought, would be completely irrelevant. And FWIW, they do not sell any Wilson Staff clubs at Walmart. However last time I was in one, they did have some Nike clubs.
See this discussion could get off topic very quickly so I won't say much but I just wanted to say this. Wal mart is probably the most shopped store around. Everyone goes there for everything. Why wouldn't they jump on the popular oem wagon and start selling nicer clubs. If they did, I think it would not only drive the prices at other popular golf retailers down, but also help companies like Wilson that have always been in stores like wal mart and target lose that bad stereotype
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Just checking to see if Titleist has Zach Johnson's win on his website bio yet....yep, they sure do! First main page, and bio. Huh, guess they want people to know there equipment is winning on tour?
- Staff
- #270
In fairness they did have this on their main page after Streelman won. http://www.wilson.com/en-us/golf/news/streelman-win/
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #271
See, but that's their market. They pay hundreds of athletes to be able to say most used on tour every year.
But I am not sure I understand the idea of the website thing. Case in point.
As soon as I clicked on their website, this was sitting right in front of me.
http://www.wilson.com/en-us/golf/news/tinning-victory/
And then right with the players listing. There was this.
http://www.wilson.com/en-us/golf/players/73373/#Achievements
It shows what gear they are using and their recent finishes.
Right there is the misconception. Wilson Staff is not a Wal-Mart brand, that is Wilson. I'm sure Wilson is a money making machine with their cheap box sets. Wilson Staff is nowhere to be found in stores such as Wal-Mart. My guess is that if one were to be elminated, from a business standpoint, it would probably be Wilson Staff. So what options does that leave, because there is obviously a misconception with some people. Either change the Wilson Staff name, unlikely, or remove the wilson name from Wal-Mart box sets. I would go with the ladder. On the other hand, are people buying the cheap Wilson box sets because they are a known brand in the sporting goods industry?
Howzat
I'd Rather Be At The Hideaway
It is interesting to me that golf companies seem to have issues seperating their brands. Tour Edge has the same issue with the Exotics line. Car companies have been doing this for years with no issues.
Agent Jay
Grandaddy Alumni
Your right JB. It's a perception though. Most of us here realize that Wilson Staff is not sold there, but we are educated buyers. If Wilson wants to GROW there company to back where they were in the day, don't they need to reach a new demographic? Plus reach us educated buyers again? I look at is like this, and maybe I'm wrong. When someone first starts playing golf, they go buy cheep clubs in most cases. So they look at places like Wal-Mart, for example. So they see Wilson golf clubs, full set $199 with a bag! SWEET! Then they start to get good, they want some good clubs. They don't think, I'll just go back to Wal-Mart. They look at there cheep Wilson clubs and cheep Wilson bag and think...time to move on from the cheep Wilson clubs. Odds they go to find Wilson Staff clubs? Why? Perception.
I haven't seen Nike clubs in Wal-Mart before, but with that said they have the R&D, and star power in golf, Wilson does not.
- Thread starter
- Admin
- #275
I dont think Nike has any more R&D than Wilson does FWIW.
I guess I just disagree with you. I dont think the Wilson Brand being sold elsewhere is the main cause of their issues. I believe it is solely marketing and how little dollars they have to spend.
The perfect example of that is apparel. Nobody stops buying Nike and adidas and Puma because they can get it at TJ Maxx or JC Penny. Why? Because they are different lines or older lines.
Educated consumers will be educated consumers regardless of where the products are. Most golfers do not look at equipment at these stores, hence they would not even notice that they are there or arent there.
Golf has become more than ever a game of social credit. You want to play what is cool, what the pros play, what looks pretty, etc. Nobody wants to play the clubs that never get looked at, are never in commercials, etc.