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sleuth

sleuth

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Hey guys,

Thought I would open this thread to get an outsiders look and opinion on my problem. I recently was offered a position at a local private company and I have until Monday to decide.

I currently work for a very large corporation and I telecommute. It's a global company with dozens of offices across America, but zero presence in Iowa. Let me start by saying I hate the corporate structure. At least where I work it inhibits growth and creativity. I always have to follow company policy or what our senior leadership says because 'It works after all this time' and I feel that's somewhat counterproductive. Some of the senior managers have been there so long I would have to wait until they leave/retire in order to move up any higher. Now these are just my gripes with where I work. I maintain a good salary, very good benefits, I enjoy working with my team, and did I say I telecommute? Having a daughter, and with another on the way, this is invaluable. At the same time it also makes it difficult to grow within the company as I can only move onto other virtual positions. Even though there's usually a lot of open positions in some ways I find it very difficult to move within a corporation.

The company I would be working for is growing and is currently at 200 employees. The benefits are pretty bad in comparison: insurance premium, 401k match, PTO days. However there's potential to grow and develop as the company grows. I don't know what to expect at a smaller private company. My wife was part of one (vastly smaller) and they were purchased and all laid off. That is one worry of mine. However she loved the experience. My wife doesn't really have sound advice for me. She now works for a corporation as well, and she likes it there.

Both are project management positions. The new position would require more work and responsibility. I'm only 30 and have asked my friends for advice, but we're all young and stupid and everyones response is pretty much the same - uhh take the money duh. Any older/wise people out there have any wisdom to impart in my decision? Either job will make me happy tbh. While I sound unhappy with where I currently work the telecommuting is awesome and I get to spend tons of time with my daughter, thus happy. I think I would be happy at the new company - everything sounds awesome, interviewed with 2 executives and they sound open to new creative ways to grow the company, the people are great, could be great for my future, love the culture and they have a kegerator in the kitchen with free beer and food!!

BTW, I've already asked my current team to match the offer if they can.
 
Probably the wrong guy to ask about this, but here goes. I sort of quit caring so much a couple years ago.

My only concern with work is that I make the most money I can, have security, and a benefits package to take care of my family (including time off). I get nothing out of it other than that. At this point in my life, I look at it conservativey and from a more pragmatic approach.
 
Was this through a headhunter?
If so, did they discuss with you the counteroffer strategy?

Normally there is very specific protocol that one asks of a candidate when asking a current to match. By doing so, you are showing your hand to the current company about many factors including financial and loyalty.
 
JB said:
Was this through a headhunter?
If so, did they discuss with you the counteroffer strategy?

Normally there is very specific protocol that one asks of a candidate when asking a current to match. By doing so, you are showing your hand to the current company about many factors including financial and loyalty.
Click to expand...
Not through a headhunter.

My wife was a recruiter at one point in her life and she walked me through how I should approach a counteroffer with my current employer.
 
Hawk said:
Probably the wrong guy to ask about this, but here goes. I sort of quit caring so much a couple years ago.

My only concern with work is that I make the most money I can, have security, and a benefits package to take care of my family (including time off). I get nothing out of it other than that. At this point in my life, I look at it conservativey and from a more pragmatic approach.
Click to expand...
Dude I'm right there with you. I'm a very cynical guy. If you were to ask me for a thoughtful, honest answer for what would make me happy? I don't think I could answer that. If I'm not going to enjoy or love my job, shouldn't I just try to make as much money as I can? This is why I'm sort of leaning towards accepting but I really need to make a clear decision here.
 
Few things to consider...

First of all, a company of 200+ seems pretty established and I wouldn't necessarily worry about being small and less job security (this is an assumption without knowing more about it).

And with that being said it comes down to this simple question.... Would you rather have less pay, solid job security and benefits and get to spend more time with your family or would you rather take a risk (relatively speaking) and make some sacrifices in life to further your career?

If it was me, I would be taking the new job knowing there is better opportunity to advance my career (but there is some selfishness associated with my opinion because I do not ahve a wife or kids...)
 
sleuth said:
Dude I'm right there with you. I'm a very cynical guy. If you were to ask me for a thoughtful, honest answer for what would make me happy? I don't think I could answer that. If I'm not going to enjoy or love my job, shouldn't I just try to make as much money as I can? This is why I'm sort of leaning towards accepting but I really need to make a clear decision here.
Click to expand...

That's my motto. That and will it be able to weather the ups and downs of the economy. I give a little in income for that luxury at the moment.
 
I would say do whats best for you and your family. I would rather make $5 an hour and be with my family. If your pay is good now and your benefits are good to I would stay there. Plus you can Telecomute so that probably makes everything better to. And for me growing up with a dad that was always gone with work I wish he could have spent more time at home instead of work. But anyway you pick man I wish you the best.
 
Sounds like you're going to make more salary wise, but lose money as far as benefits and now traveling to work. So money wise, you have to look at all that.

Career wise, it all depends on what your goals in your career are. I'm a mechanical engineer, and initially had goals of one day either being a general manager of a small private company or of a branch of a larger one. Now, with kids, I realize the highest I'd probably ever want to be is an engineering manager. There's no way I'm ever going to put in over 40 hours a week on a regular basis. Time with my kids is far too important, and I think it's ludicrous to have people work more than that anyways. I won't make as much money not going as high up as originally planned, but that's not my main priority anymore.

And what day to day work do you think is going to make you most happy? If you enjoy what you do, and enjoy all the time at home, that's a win win. If you think the new work will be more enjoyable, and don't mind cutting down your time at home, then that could be a good scenario too.
 
JB said:
Was this through a headhunter?
If so, did they discuss with you the counteroffer strategy?

Normally there is very specific protocol that one asks of a candidate when asking a current to match. By doing so, you are showing your hand to the current company about many factors including financial and loyalty.
Click to expand...
And to be honest, with my venture of looking outside the firm my current manager should not be shocked. A couple things happened in the past year that I expressed my deep anger and frustration about.
 
I think you will be fine in either location, each has pluses and minuses.

i can't advise what you should do. I will share my own experience. I turned down several chances to leave my current position because it was safe, the benefits were great and I had a massive amount of freedom which translated into the ability to be very involved with my kids. I'm currently seeing some of the downside professionally...some peers are more advanced in the careers, I'm seeing that I should be in higher positions relative to my skill, etc. it is hard and I'm currently exploring options within the company to move up. That said, I do think there's a healthy amount of the grass always being greener. Looking back ... it is hard to quantify the freedom and time spent with the kids and how that contributed to the relationship I have with them, how involved I am with their lives, etc. Those things were - and continue to be - extremely valuable. It is probably easier to devalue that side because it is what I have, as opposed to the career advancement, which I don't have. I will also say that it turned out that many of those opportunities to leave would have been short lived, the companies got bought out or re-orged, etc (not all, but enough that it would have hurt to have given up the current security). Anyway, that's my story. I think you will be fine in either place, it is just a matter of what really matters to you at this point in your life. I'd also ad that PM positions are pretty prevalant so I wouldn't necessarily worry about this being the only opportunity that will come your way. Hope this helps. Good luck with your decision. You'll be good either way.
 
tequila4kapp said:
I think you will be fine in either location, each has pluses and minuses.

i can't advise what you should do. I will share my own experience. I turned down several chances to leave my current position because it was safe, the benefits were great and I had a massive amount of freedom which translated into the ability to be very involved with my kids. I'm currently seeing some of the downside professionally...some peers are more advanced in the careers, I'm seeing that I should be in higher positions relative to my skill, etc. it is hard and I'm currently exploring options within the company to move up. That said, I do think there's a healthy amount of the grass always being greener. Looking back ... it is hard to quantify the freedom and time spent with the kids and how that contributed to the relationship I have with them, how involved I am with their lives, etc. Those things were - and continue to be - extremely valuable. It is probably easier to devalue that side because it is what I have, as opposed to the career advancement, which I don't have. I will also say that it turned out that many of those opportunities to leave would have been short lived, the companies got bought out or re-orged, etc (not all, but enough that it would have hurt to have given up the current security). Anyway, that's my story. I think you will be fine in either place, it is just a matter of what really matters to you at this point in your life. I'd also ad that PM positions are pretty prevalant so I wouldn't necessarily worry about this being the only opportunity that will come your way. Hope this helps. Good luck with your decision. You'll be good either way.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are/were in a very similar situation. Retrospect being 20/20 and all - did you make the right decision? Could you have made the family/kids work with more responsibility and work?
 
sleuth said:
Sounds like you are/were in a very similar situation. Retrospect being 20/20 and all - did you make the right decision? Could you have made the family/kids work with more responsibility and work?
Click to expand...
I'll try not to get all Dr. Phil on you...

My dad worked all the time, was not very involved with us, was emotionally detached, etc. I knew that I wanted to be a different kind of dad. That was extremely important to me. I am doing that. Maybe I could have done that elsewhere. I knew my current place allowed me to do it. I really shouldn't complain about it, that is/was my top priority. But it has become hard seeing the professional downside. I don't know if I could have done it elsewhere or with more responsibility. I'm inclined to say no but there could be some subliminal wishing involved too :)

It will be okay either way. Make the best decision you can and look forward.
 
It's been touched on, but I'll call it outright. You mentioned at least 3 times that you tele-commute for your current job. That is obviously a HUGE benefit that most people would give their eye-teeth for. You also say that with the new job, you will possibly be able to grow within the company and have more input in the process of how things are done. Another very valuable, but intangible dollar wise, benefit. Besides the pay, the benefits and everything else that you can put a dollar value to, you have to try to put a value to that. But part of that valuation comes with the extra responsibility at the new job. Will you find yourself working 60 hours a week with this new job? That may be something you want to find out by asking directly and/or talking with other employees in similar positions to what you are going to be taking. It may not be so bad giving up the telecommute to go work for 40 hours a week, figure at least 45 - 50 with travel to and from. But do you come up with the same answer if that turns into regularly putting in 50 - 60 hours per week, plus commute, and may plus weekend work?

Just food for thought.
 
I think it really depends on what you're looking for. I've worked for both. A couple small, <50 employee companies, and some larger ones. Currently working for one of the larger tech companies in the world. If you're looking for security and family time, usually the larger company is the way to go, assuming you're in good standing with them. That said, the most fulfilling moments in my career have come while working at the smaller companies. I get more of a sense of purpose there and I feel like my contributions are more impactful, if that makes sense. It's a lot of hard work, but working in a start up is fun (as fun as work can be anyhow). I'm pretty happy at the moment, and to be honest could probably coast out the rest of my career here if I wanted to, but I imagine I'll find my way back to the small company/start up environment eventually. Just fits my personality.

At the end of the day you have to do what makes sense for you & your family. Sometimes more money isn't the right answer.
 
I did not have a situation like you but here is what I did, I did work in a corporate world in my past. I work my way from driving a truck to being the regional manager covering 7 states with a nationwide company. There was nowhere to go from there but I could have stayed there and retired there if I chose to, but an opportunity came along in a field I knew nothing about. I decided to make a change and I was given the opportunity to learn and progress. I have been doing this now for 9 years, working from home. I had the time to spend with my boys that I never would have been able to working for the corporation. I was able to coach them in their sports, pull them out of school to go to a game here and there, attend special events during the day at school with them among other things that I could not have done working in an office. I would not change a thing if I had it to do over as spending time with my family was the best thing for me. I'm not telling you which way you should go as that's your choice, I just wanted you to know how life worked out for me being able to work from home and spending time with the family. Good luck in your decision.
 
Most have touched on the same I was going to say. You're a lot like me, my family is the most important to me, too. Other's have mentioned this, so this is just touching on it again. With your telecommute, there isn't much you have to do to get ready for work I would imagine. On the other hand, you would now have to get up earlier (guessing) shower, shave, eat breakfast, so warm up the car (in the winter) and get out the door in time to make your commute to work. This is all extras that you probably don't have to do very often with your current job. Plus the added fuel costs for driving to work. Then don't forget the fact that whatever the commute is, is less time with your family. Even a 15 minute drive to work means at minimum a 1/2 hour lost per day. Plus, if you're like me, you'll get an hour for lunch...but even with a 15 minute drive...you probably won't go home for lunch. So if you have a "normal" 8-5 work day? Then you'll want to leave for work no later than 7:45 and then wouldn't get home until 5:15. Plus once you get up in the morning, you won't get much time with the kids due to getting ready for work...so basically your day will be a 7am to 5:30pm, no family time.
I'm not trying to scare you off from the new job, honestly I'm not...but these are things I think you should consider. The pay at the new place is going to have to offset, pretty well, your current job in my opinion.
One the other side of the coin, I work for a small business in a small town. I'm pretty high up on the ladder, and my pay is good for the area I live, good enough where my wife is a stay at home Mom. I know my boss(es) all very well, and consider them friends of mine now. I'm confident that, with the years I have put in here, they look at me as a valued member of this business. A lot of my co-works have worked here WAY longer than I have, and that's saying something. I work with at least 4 guys who have each been here at LEAST 20 years. Small businesses, when ran buy the right people, are GREAT to work for. Typically, once you have settled into your job, as long as your doing your job correctly, you're there for as long as you want to be.

Those are my two cents, for what it's worth.

Good luck with your decision!
 
Texasbrons said:
It's been touched on, but I'll call it outright. You mentioned at least 3 times that you tele-commute for your current job. That is obviously a HUGE benefit that most people would give their eye-teeth for. You also say that with the new job, you will possibly be able to grow within the company and have more input in the process of how things are done. Another very valuable, but intangible dollar wise, benefit. Besides the pay, the benefits and everything else that you can put a dollar value to, you have to try to put a value to that. But part of that valuation comes with the extra responsibility at the new job. Will you find yourself working 60 hours a week with this new job? That may be something you want to find out by asking directly and/or talking with other employees in similar positions to what you are going to be taking. It may not be so bad giving up the telecommute to go work for 40 hours a week, figure at least 45 - 50 with travel to and from. But do you come up with the same answer if that turns into regularly putting in 50 - 60 hours per week, plus commute, and may plus weekend work?

Just food for thought.
Click to expand...
You're right and I didn't put it in my initial post. During my recruitment process they told me how busy and chaotic the work place is. They even outright said people have burned out within the first year of working and left. Talking to the other PM's they don't seem to work 50-60 hours if you do your job well, but who knows. This is definitely a consideration that I didn't describe that is weighing on me. Is the extra money worth the added stress? Then again, that's also why people get paid more. The work doesn't come easier if you make more money.

Weighing personal life and my career/future is a tough one.
 
sleuth said:
Hey guys,

Thought I would open this thread to get an outsiders look and opinion on my problem. I recently was offered a position at a local private company and I have until Monday to decide.

I currently work for a very large corporation and I telecommute. It's a global company with dozens of offices across America, but zero presence in Iowa. Let me start by saying I hate the corporate structure. At least where I work it inhibits growth and creativity. I always have to follow company policy or what our senior leadership says because 'It works after all this time' and I feel that's somewhat counterproductive. Some of the senior managers have been there so long I would have to wait until they leave/retire in order to move up any higher. Now these are just my gripes with where I work. I maintain a good salary, very good benefits, I enjoy working with my team, and did I say I telecommute? Having a daughter, and with another on the way, this is invaluable. At the same time it also makes it difficult to grow within the company as I can only move onto other virtual positions. Even though there's usually a lot of open positions in some ways I find it very difficult to move within a corporation.

The company I would be working for is growing and is currently at 200 employees. The benefits are pretty bad in comparison: insurance premium, 401k match, PTO days. However there's potential to grow and develop as the company grows. I don't know what to expect at a smaller private company. My wife was part of one (vastly smaller) and they were purchased and all laid off. That is one worry of mine. However she loved the experience. My wife doesn't really have sound advice for me. She now works for a corporation as well, and she likes it there.

Both are project management positions. The new position would require more work and responsibility. I'm only 30 and have asked my friends for advice, but we're all young and stupid and everyones response is pretty much the same - uhh take the money duh. Any older/wise people out there have any wisdom to impart in my decision? Either job will make me happy tbh. While I sound unhappy with where I currently work the telecommuting is awesome and I get to spend tons of time with my daughter, thus happy. I think I would be happy at the new company - everything sounds awesome, interviewed with 2 executives and they sound open to new creative ways to grow the company, the people are great, could be great for my future, love the culture and they have a kegerator in the kitchen with free beer and food!!

BTW, I've already asked my current team to match the offer if they can.
Click to expand...

In this stuation, it really depends on a few things..... how much do you enjoy change? You have an amazing setup with family time and flexibilty. You have great benefits, which are going away at a lot of places. Your current place sounds like an amazing place, and even though there is no room to move up, you have to decide if that disappoints you or not.

I used to want to become some big time executive and become well off, but once I was an advisor at a bank for 5+ years, I saw folks that worked their lives away and put their family, health and well being second.....And then they started to die off before they even were able to retire. For me, money doesn't matter much as long as I"m able to maintain my fairly inexpensive lifestyle and spend time with those I love. I'm really concerned with quality of life. I'm going back to school to become a teacher so I can try and make a difference while also giving myself the opportunity to have a better family life.

In the end, it all comes down to what makes you happy. If you could do the job you do for the rest of your life.....Without those moves up, how would you feel? Some have to move up and become that fancy executive. Is that you? Good luck with whatever you decide. May it work out however you imagine it. :)
 
threeboysdad said:
I did not have a situation like you but here is what I did, I did work in a corporate world in my past. I work my way from driving a truck to being the regional manager covering 7 states with a nationwide company. There was nowhere to go from there but I could have stayed there and retired there if I chose to, but an opportunity came along in a field I knew nothing about. I decided to make a change and I was given the opportunity to learn and progress. I have been doing this now for 9 years, working from home. I had the time to spend with my boys that I never would have been able to working for the corporation. I was able to coach them in their sports, pull them out of school to go to a game here and there, attend special events during the day at school with them among other things that I could not have done working in an office. I would not change a thing if I had it to do over as spending time with my family was the best thing for me. I'm not telling you which way you should go as that's your choice, I just wanted you to know how life worked out for me being able to work from home and spending time with the family. Good luck in your decision.
Click to expand...
I know the flexibility of working from home. Man you make this decision sound so easy lol
 
sleuth said:
You're right and I didn't put it in my initial post. During my recruitment process they told me how busy and chaotic the work place is. They even outright said people have burned out within the first year of working and left. Talking to the other PM's they don't seem to work 50-60 hours if you do your job well, but who knows. This is definitely a consideration that I didn't describe that is weighing on me. Is the extra money worth the added stress? Then again, that's also why people get paid more. The work doesn't come easier if you make more money.

Weighing personal life and my career/future is a tough one.
Click to expand...
If enough people before you have burned out and left that they are telling you about it in the interview, that's a pretty big red flag to me. They are telling you about their culture and it seems somewhat clear to me that you won't have much work/family balance. The smaller company is paying more because they have to.
 
I'm about the same age(31) as you and about to compete for a promotion that I am not 100% sure I want. I want it because I don't want to work for some of the people I will be competing with, I want the money, I want to progress an make changes with in the department and this promotion is the first step. However I don't want it because I know there will be battles and I don't ever stand down from them which is a bad thing where I work and who I work for.

My advice is that if you want to progress and have more responsibility, make more money, have new challenges and these opportunities aren't available where you are at then I would take the new job offer.

Things to consider are what it's gonna cost to commute(fuel,oil changes,tires,general vehicle maintain,vehicle replacement more often), cost of food, proper work attire(if you don't already have it), additional health care coverage now subtract those costs from what the pay increase is and see if you still come out ahead. I would also consider what it would cost you to put the difference in 401k money into some type of retirement fund.

After all that if you are gonna break even is the new job gonna allow you to surpass what you'd make in say 5 yrs then I'd go for it.
 
Not much more to add.

I would say make sure you weigh all the financial aspects. Include estimated expense of travel time, cost differences of what's being offered vs what you have now. Opportunities to advance and estimated pay for those positions going in to the future for both companies. Put all of that information on the table in front of you, all of the factual items. These are the things that are black and white. Ignore the emotional items that are going in to this decision. If you simply look at the black and white would you take the new job or stay at your current one? Answer yes or no.

If the answer is YES, you would move to the new job the decision making process moves forward. If you answer NO, then you have your decision.

Let's assume the answer is YES. Now we have to move on to the emotional aspect. Are you willing to give up time with your family? Are you willing to drive to work? Are you willing to work harder than you are now?

This clearly isn't an easy answer. I would say the biggest question to answer is what are you willing to do to provide a better future for your family? Which job gives you that opportunity? Once you have THAT answer, I think you'll know where you need to be.

My dad was and still is an over the road truck driver. He missed out on a lot of things as I was growing up. But he did what he had to do to provide the best opportunity for his family. Sometimes we make sacrifices to better those around us. You're not going to be gone for 3 to 4 days at a time like my dad, but it sounds like you already know the answer to your own question of what you should do...in my opinion.
 
tequila4kapp said:
If enough people before you have burned out and left that they are telling you about it in the interview, that's a pretty big red flag to me. They are telling you about their culture and it seems somewhat clear to me that you won't have much work/family balance. The smaller company is paying more because they have to.
Click to expand...

golfinFF said:
After all that if you are gonna break even is the new job gonna allow you to surpass what you'd make in say 5 yrs then I'd go for it.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I wonder how/why they burned out. Was it the hours or could they just not deal with the stress? The latter I'm not too worried about because I can manage that. They are growing and have a lot of work and why they're busy. They're looking to move into new sectors and create more opportunity, which sounds good for me, maybe. I realise this red flag and its been haunting me, but the future looks brighter there. I hate to say it but the money is driving me. I can invest more towards our future (retirement, mortgage, kids college), but then comes the possibility of sacrificing family life. I just wish it was easier to monetize how important all this was. Being young, I'm thinking I should venture out and try it. If it doesn't work out I should have plenty of time to rebound. At least that's how I'm currently thinking.
 
Eff getting burned out. Work will never be center stage in my life. I've seen what that does to a person. Least work/most money = success imo.
 
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