Maximum Coil... Backswing or Downswing?

[BradMorris]

During the process of trying to rebuild my swing over the last year and a half I've a had a few "ah ha" moments. One of which was when I began to grasp the concept that the backswing is NOT really meant to be a coiling process as much as it is a mechanism to put me in a position to create maximum coil in the downswing. To me, this concept is exemplified in these two images of Fred Couples, where on the left he has made a relaxed turn to the top, but that is not where he is fully coiled, that is achieved in the right image when he starts his hip turn back to the left, generating his maximum coil in the downswing, which is then released through the ball.



This is probably common knowledge to most of you guys, but to me, someone who has always viewed the backswing as the coiling mechanism, much like cocking a gun, this was a "light bulb moment". Maximum coil is created in the downswing, not the backswing! One other thought is that the hip-move back to the left must be started before the club actually reaches the top of the swing (even if it is only a split second before). If it is started after the club has come to a stop at the top, much of the coil potential could be lost, which can lead to weak slappy shots.

Is this a proper concept, or am I off base here?

 

[Tadashi70]

I can see where you might think that but you are at max coil at the top of your swing. The left hip
and left shoulders are released on his downward move.

Coil against a solid base and that energy will transfer back into the Ball

 

[BradMorris]

Thanks for your reply. Right now I'm really working on the relationship between my shoulders and hips in the downswing and maybe I'm getting a little too caught up in this area. I will rethink this one. There quite often seems to be a wide gap between "feel versus real" in this game. Thanks again.

<edit> Maybe torque would have been a better word to use than coil.

 

[Mystery Meat]

:act-up:Many many moons ago...( in 1983 when I started this goofy game).. I was taught to lift up my left heel. I tell you what, when I qualified for high school varsity golf..I was so so long with even wooden headed drivers. Now I leave my left foot down,,and I'm a short knock but straight. Great thread, I wonder what would happen if I tried to lift that left foot up again?

Maybe this old fart might try that again

mm

 

[ChristopherKee]

:act-up:Many many moons ago...( in 1983 when I started this goofy game).. I was taught to lift up my left heel. I tell you what, when I qualified for high school varsity golf..I was so so long with even wooden headed drivers. Now I leave my left foot down,,and I'm a short knock but straight. Great thread, I wonder what would happen if I tried to lift that left foot up again?

Maybe this old fart might try that again

mm

Justin Rose lifts the left foot when he is trying to hit a big one vs strait one. Saw a Youtube video of him talking about it, said when he needs an extra 10+, it's usually 10+ left or right though.

 

[BradMorris]

:act-up:Many many moons ago...( in 1983 when I started this goofy game).. I was taught to lift up my left heel. I tell you what, when I qualified for high school varsity golf..I was so so long with even wooden headed drivers. Now I leave my left foot down,,and I'm a short knock but straight. Great thread, I wonder what would happen if I tried to lift that left foot up again?

Maybe this old fart might try that again

mm

I would say be careful with any changes! One of the things that ended any advancement in serious golf for me was when, in my mid 20's, and only 4 or 5 years after taking up the game, I decided I didn't like the fact that I could only hit a power fade (even though I was starting to win matches in local tournaments and take money off of the guys I played with). So one day I went out and hit about 500 balls trying to force myself (the key word being force) to "swing from the inside" while having no idea what I was doing. In trying to do that, I hurt my back so badly that I could not get out of bed for 2 days, and even when I was able to play again I found that I had lost the ability to make the proper initial move without severe pain. That pain never went away, and over the following years I manufactured a swing that allowed me to swing around it, but it was totally unreliable over any extended period of time. And now, 25 years later, I'm still swinging around the damage that I did that day, and in the last 5 years my swing has gotten so short that some days I can barely get my left arm past 9 o'clock on the backswing.

This has basically put me in a position of either giving up the game or rebuilding my swing. I am working on the rebuilding, along with stretching and strengthening. Both of which require far more commitment than I have ever put into ANYTHING in my life, with the underlying fear that it may be all for naught. Only time will tell. Hopefully last year was not a harbinger of what's to come.

 

[MarcH]

This drill might be the best ever for how to coil back and through.

[video=youtube;m-awjWc5lVg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-awjWc5lVg[/video]

 

[Mystery Meat]

:act-up:Great great posts...and great thread.. It is weird, in high school I was a big hooker of the ball...and very long. Now I keep it down, I'm straighter..and 30 yards shorter.. I have no ball flight now, Just pretty straight . But that left heel lift and plant did make me very very long. Something to think about, but agree..injury may arise.

 

[BradMorris]

:act-up:Great great posts...and great thread.. It is weird, in high school I was a big hooker of the ball...and very long. Now I keep it down, I'm straighter..and 30 yards shorter.. I have no ball flight now, Just pretty straight . But that left heel lift and plant did make me very very long. Something to think about, but agree..injury may arise.

It works for Bubba!

 

[Mystery Meat]

:act-up:Here is my 11cents,,lol.. If we all hit the ball 300 plus off the tee. I betcha guys a coke, we would never care what our motions look like ( steep/shallow/ cast/ flip..yada yada yada ,.. Freaking bs) . I'm sure of this..we are all so fraeaking worried about consistency and straight,,

hell if I hit it 300 plus..I wouldn't care if I swung cross eyed..or on my head

imo

mm

 

[BradMorris]

... I'm sure of this..we are all so fraeaking worried about consistency and straight,,

hell if I hit it 300 plus..I wouldn't care if I swung cross eyed..or on my head

Absolutely. Consistency is my #1 objective right now. I have plenty of speed (even with my short swing), I am simply trying to nail down some concepts that I can use to keep the club more under control and remove excess hand and arm movement in the downswing that may throw it off plane and out of sync.

 

[blugold]

Absolutely. Consistency is my #1 objective right now. I have plenty of speed (even with my short swing), I am simply trying to nail down some concepts that I can use to keep the club more under control and remove excess hand and arm movement in the downswing that may throw it off plane and out of sync.

If your after more consistency, my thoughts:

1) keep your front heel down
2) turn against your hips
3) keep your weight as on the balls of your feet (my biggest issue)

 

[Mystery Meat]

If your after more consistency, my thoughts:

1) keep your front heel down
2) turn against your hips
3) keep your weight as on the balls of your feet (my biggest issue)

Bingo,,,

I,,, im thinking #2 is the pivot or the good ole McClean X Factor. I coil a lot on backswing, but never get uncoiled properly on downswing. That is where the left foot up and replant may help...and maybe get that distance that we all thrive or miss. I have consistency whipped in the bud, just need some uncoiling power

 

[BradMorris]

Bingo,,,

...the good ole McClean X Factor.

Which brings us back to the original point of my post. Are Fred Couples and Bubba actually increasing their X-Factor (coil between the hips and shoulders) in their downswing, or are they simply uncoiling what they created in their backswing? To me it looks like they are increasing the coil between the hips and shoulders. Maybe they are not. Just something I thought I would throw out for discussion as I watch the snow melt outside and hope for a better 2014.

 

[Mystery Meat]

Which brings us back to the original point of my post. Are Fred Couples and Bubba actually increasing their X-Factor (coil between the hips and shoulders) in their downswing, or are they simply uncoiling what they created in their backswing? To me it looks like they are increasing the coil between the hips and shoulders. Maybe they are not. Just something I thought I would throw out for discussion as I watch the snow melt outside and hope for a better 2014.

I would say say a big yes

 

[BradMorris]

...3) keep your weight as on the balls of your feet (my biggest issue)

Good reminder! This is something that I constantly forget to think about, and getting flat footed definitely leads to me moving around too much during the swing. Thanks.

 

[Mystery Meat]

Research a swing theory called the "pitching machine". One gear turns CCW other clockwise...and ball spits out of the middle. That is what bubba and fred c are doing,,the "pitching machine theory" ...turning their body gears to the max. They load it so so good..like a spring..and hOld off spring from uncoiling too early..( upper body) as lower body pivots


And weight on balls of feet is subjective..a feel thing..hell weight on heels will getcha hitting from the inside and maximum coil

off to have a beer,,have some Milwaukee's best cooled up for today,..

 

[blugold]

Which brings us back to the original point of my post. Are Fred Couples and Bubba actually increasing their X-Factor (coil between the hips and shoulders) in their downswing, or are they simply uncoiling what they created in their backswing? To me it looks like they are increasing the coil between the hips and shoulders. Maybe they are not. Just something I thought I would throw out for discussion as I watch the snow melt outside and hope for a better 2014.

I would bet you there is more coil/tension in their swings than it looks like.

 

[Mystery Meat]

:act-up:Blu gold.. How u guys get 20000 plus posts...? What the hell.. Most I ever had was 1300 on golf spy..and I was a member their since 2009. Wow..

 

[Tadashi70]

Which brings us back to the original point of my post. Are Fred Couples and Bubba actually increasing their X-Factor (coil between the hips and shoulders) in their downswing, or are they simply uncoiling what they created in their backswing? To me it looks like they are increasing the coil between the hips and shoulders. Maybe they are not. Just something I thought I would throw out for discussion as I watch the snow melt outside and hope for a better 2014.

Like I said earlier, I think your line of thinking good. But players aren't holding their upper body still while their hips uncoil. Once they reach the top, they are uncoiling and releasing the stored energy for the back swing.

 

[Mystery Meat]

:act-up:Tadasi

hard to do of some or most of us. Flexibility is an issue here.. This is the move that separates the great players from the rest. Wish I know what I do now 30 years ago. Never was told about the pivot..all hands and arms

 

[blugold]

:act-up:Blu gold.. How u guys get 20000 plus posts...? What the hell.. Most I ever had was 1300 on golf spy..and I was a member their since 2009. Wow..

You would have 20,000+ post if you were on a forum like THP since 2009

 

[Mystery Meat]

:act-up:Tadashi...u help me with my pivot,. I would buy you a 12 pack of Milwaukee's best for your enjoyment

 

[BradMorris]

Like I said earlier, I think your line of thinking good. But players aren't holding their upper body still while their hips uncoil. Once they reach the top, they are uncoiling and releasing the stored energy for the back swing.

Right on. I see what you are saying. I knew they couldn't hold back the upper body, that's why I wondered if they were actually starting the hip turn forward a split second before the upper body reached the top, allowing momentum to increase the coil. A move that would most likely land me in the E.R. if I tried it anyway so it's a moot point for me. It was just something I was pondering. Thanks again. Appreciate your reply.

 

[Tadashi70]

Right on. I see what you are saying. I knew they couldn't hold back the upper body, that's why I wondered if they were actually starting the hip turn forward a split second before the upper body reached the top, allowing momentum to increase the coil. A move that would most likely land me in the E.R. if I tried it anyway so it's a moot point for me. It was just something I was pondering. Thanks again. Appreciate your reply.

I wondered this too, many times. And because of the fluidity of Couples swing I can see where that might the case. But there is a slight pause and shift in direction. Freddy has even talked about his slight pause once everything is in place and then he free wheels it.

Now I have seen a pro start his hip prior to the upper body completing its turn but I can't of his name. If I remember I'll pull up a video.