Help me understand power vs speed...

[rollin]

I'm sure you all want to show of your high school physics knowledge but I think OP is looking for something a little more related to the golf swing and a little less theoretical. I really like the Ernie Ells idea, perfect example; now we just need to lean how to do that!

I know hat you mean. But besides simply being interesting to some people it is also advantageous imo to understand it better. It is directly related to the swing. A bit over the top perhaps but if one can have an understanding just why and how the ball is reacting when it is struck I believe he is better for it.

To use a simple example - If one knows an (out-to-in) swing path causes a slice simply because he was told and then stops it because he was taught how to correct it that is just great but if he also knows exactly why it causes the slice I believe it makes him better for it. One may say "whats the difference?" as long as he corrects it the result is the same. But I think that logic is not good. One is certainly much better off for understanding why and how.

 

[BIGBALL]

Play "Swing the Club" not "Hit the Ball".....

When you're trying to hit the ball, that becomes your focus and tension creeps in. So while you're using more effort to swing hard, you've actually slowed down the rotational force. It's something that I've battled with for years and my old instructor used to tell me all the time to stop trying to hit the ball, just swing the club.

Yea, swing THROUGH the ball is key - and something I still struggle with. Most guys I have seen who suffer from this are former athletes, a lot of them baseball players ( like myself ). In those sports, the ball is moving, and you attack the ball. Golf is a whole different animal - stupid thing is just sitting there, mocking me lol. Lately, I have started to pick a target of where I want the CLUB to swing to, and maintain that image while I address the ball. Shawn Clement is a big proponent of this. It is helping, although I still tend to hit at the ball, especially on tougher shots.

 

[golf4life]

So this has been boggling my mind since i first started hearing it. I have been golfing a pretty short amount of time but constantly hear, "you don't need to swing hard because you have so much power". I hear it from good players, the pga pro that that has been giving me lessons, and several other randos. Now before you think this is some vain way of patting myself on the back, I want to say i legitimately am slightly confused when i hear the phrase. As far as I know, the ball does not give a crap how much i can bench when the face makes contact with it. What does it mean? I just heard it again when the commentators were discussing gary woodland 308 yard 3 wood. Isn't club-head speed the only thing that matters for distance and ball contact?

I believe what they are trying to get at is that since you are so strong, if your swing mechanics are sound, you will not have to try and swing hard, it will naturally be a fast swing due to proper mechanics and your inherent strength.

Trying to swing hard for amateurs usually means casting with the arms and actually decelerating when you reach the ball reducing club head speed when it really matters.

Taking the Couples swing again as an example, he's actually generating a pretty high club head speed (I believe upper teens if not 120), but he does it in tempo and gradually so that his club head is travelling at peak speed right when it strikes the ball. His speed comes from good flexibility, decent strength and unbelievable swing mechanics.

And of course, ball speed is what really matters anyways. And ball speed is maximized by applying the center of the club face to the ball which usually takes an "in control" swing using proper mechanics fueled by fluid tempo.

 

[Juddphoto]

I am no physicist and although a draw does go further its not because one way rotates the ball differently in its traveled direction. Both balls spin backwards. The only difference is that one spins on this axis ( \ ) and the other on this axis ( / ) but both spin backwards and in the same relative relation to their forward directions.

The differences for a fade being shorter are because it is hit with a more open club face and also the out-to-in swing path. This leads to higher loft and also less mass behind the ball therefore shorter distance.

Although on opposite axis sides, if one were able to create the exact same speed, loft, and, mass behind the ball, both balls will travel the exact same distance. Go out in opposite directions from each other and come back in and meet in the middle. They would simply mirror each other. The exact same scenario for each ball except from the opposite sides. But the golfer simply cannot create the same givens from both sides. But a lefty will do the exact opposite.

Not to confuse the reader. But the ball does spin differently on a draw and a fade in relation to its trajectory, . With a fade, as you stated, you are opening the club face for the purpose of creating greater back spin and higher loft which combine to produce a softer lamding with little roll. Unfortunately, you do lose some distance with a fade but in exchange, you gain some control.

With a draw you are producing a spin which rotates in favor of the direction of the swing path and ball flight which is why the ball rolls forward a greater distance than with a fade upon landing, but does not encourage a higher ball flight or short soft
landing. That is why you need to add loft to the ball by hitting upwards as it rests upon the tee. With a fade you do not have to hit upwards because you are using an open face.

A fade is not the mirrored opposite of a draw. A righty and a lefty facing each other, hitting the same identical stroke, will produce mirrored results as long as everything is identical. Both will either hit a draw or a fade, but this has no relevance to golf as a golfer must play right or left handed not both. Sounds more like synchronized swimming. In golf, the difference between a fade and a draw are much more than simply the spin on axis being opposite but equal. It's not that your statements are wrong, some simply belong to different branches of study (applied physics vs.mechanical engineering).






.

 

[Agent Jay]

Ouch...my head hurts reading all of this. ha ha

Swing speed at impact equal distance, but it's more than just that, we all know this. There is a difference between power and whip/flexibility. I saw mention of Els and Couples, two great examples. Another thing I would mention is distance the club head travels. Which sounds weird I know, but someone who's 6'2" will be able to have more accelerated distance more effortlessly than someone who's say, 5'7" will. So someone who's 5'7" will need to create more power based upon flexibility, wrist hinge and whip than someone who's taller. So I think of this analogy....What's going to hurt more, a rubber band wrapped around your fingers that is pulled back and snapped on your arm from a distance of 1 inch, or pulled back to 10 inches? So how can I make the 1 inch distance FEEL and WHIP like the 10 inch distance? I would wind up the band tighter around my fingers to give me more torque on the band, right?

Same principle can be applied with a golf swing, the more torque I can generate and the longer I can hold my wrist hinge before releasing it square down the target line, the more club head speed I will generate. I don't need POWER to generate speed, I need torque and whip. That's why you (and I) can outdrive a lot of guys who are stronger and taller.

 

[Jman]

For as far as couples hits it, he doesn't swing that fast. Does he have some speed, yes, but not 125 speed. Couples speed is deceiving because it is all generated from his right hip to to his. He drops the club in such a away that the rotation of his hips speed the club up once it reaches his hip.

The key to a good swing is tempo. A gentle back swing saves no more power then a fast back swing. If all positions are correct they save equal amounts. But saving is nothing if you don't know how to,use what has been saved. Most golfer have no clue

Always talking to me. I have no clue.

 

[ATLGolfer]

I've heard Hank Haney say "swing fast, not hard." That makes some sense to me.

The goal is to increase club head speed while not adding unneeded grip pressure and overall tension to the swing.

 

[rollin]

Not to confuse the reader. But the ball does spin differently on a draw and a fade in relation to its trajectory, . With a fade, as you stated, you are opening the club face for the purpose of creating greater back spin and higher loft which combine to produce a softer lamding with little roll. Unfortunately, you do lose some distance with a fade but in exchange, you gain some control.

With a draw you are producing a spin which rotates in favor of the direction of the swing path and ball flight which is why the ball rolls forward a greater distance than with a fade upon landing, but does not encourage a higher ball flight or short soft
landing. That is why you need to add loft to the ball by hitting upwards as it rests upon the tee. With a fade you do not have to hit upwards because you are using an open face.

A fade is not the mirrored opposite of a draw. A righty and a lefty facing each other, hitting the same identical stroke, will produce mirrored results as long as everything is identical. Both will either hit a draw or a fade, but this has no relevance to golf as a golfer must play right or left handed not both. Sounds more like synchronized swimming. In golf, the difference between a fade and a draw are much more than simply the spin on axis being opposite but equal. It's not that your statements are wrong, some simply belong to different branches of study (applied physics vs.mechanical engineering).

I think its safe to say we are certainly on the same page here. Picturing in the mind and interpreting what is written is not always easily translated. I thought you meant something very different. And I am certainly no physics major as I said but interesting and always willing to learn more.

But bottom line is (I think you would agree) that the same scenario simply can not be duplicated for both shots with a given right handed hitter. I think you pretty much say this already. As is the opposite for a lefty. The way one and his club are facing and all angles, pivot point, etc, that are involved just do not allow him to create the exact same (but opposite sided) launch scenario with all the same factors. Simply by default of being one sided the givens at point of contact cannot be mirrored unless he turned himself and his club around to the other side. So the draw shot ends up with more favorable launch factors for distance. Sort of the penalty (if we can call it that) for hitting from one side while trying to create both shots.

There are plenty who believe right-to-left shots go further because the ball spins forward on one and backwards on the other. From how you worded (or how I took) your post, I thought you may have been (sorry to say) thinking this. It just came off to me as being that drastic. Of course after they do top one and do give it forward spin and see it go 25 yards and make a bee-line slam into the ground is when they realize what forward spin is. Anyway always enjoy thinking about this kind of stuff and enjoy your or any ones input. Grabs my interest and curiosity to learn more.

.

 

[Juddphoto]

Help me understand power vs speed...

You are quite right.we are on the same page. The written word is wonderful, but it does have its limits especially, as we have been talking about, complex yet subtle forces at work. I hope others read our posts. It's not because we are geniuses, but in Jack Nicklaus book "Golf My Way" the first part of the book is about exactly what we are discussing: how perfect shots are nearly impossible to hit and why playing fades or draws to better control the outcome of any given shot is essential to good golf.

When I first read it I was scratching my head wondering why he opened the book talking about spin, etc.. Don't I want to hit it long and straight? I finally got it and it has really changed my approach to the game in the sense that I understand most of my shots will be imperfect and that has helped me relax around the course.

Thanks again for te good dialogue.

David

 

[adamw238]

How I see power and motion..I will keep this simple. we can drop all the other thoughts that get generated from just to many ways to look at MOTION. So we have three things IN GOLF to deal with that move or are going to move. BALL CLUB PERSON. Its just as simple as that for being very clear on what are the three Components of The Golf game. The rules are that they dont have to all sink up in order to make the game easy or you improving.

I really tried to read all of this. I saw some things about soft tissue and killing.

 

[rollin]

You are quite right.we are on the same page. The written word is wonderful, but it does have its limits especially, as we have been talking about, complex yet subtle forces at work. I hope others read our posts. It's not because we are geniuses, but in Jack Nicklaus book "Golf My Way" the first part of the book is about exactly what we are discussing: how perfect shots are nearly impossible to hit and why playing fades or draws to better control the outcome of any given shot is essential to good golf.

When I first read it I was scratching my head wondering why he opened the book talking about spin, etc.. Don't I want to hit it long and straight? I finally got it and it has really changed my approach to the game in the sense that I understand most of my shots will be imperfect and that has helped me relax around the course.

Thanks again for te good dialogue.

David

This is all why I am so great at this game Yea right! lol
Its just kind of weird though when it comes to trying to explain to someone how or why its better to control something from an angle that seems (and in a way is) more complicated vs straight on dead center. Of course one has to learn to hit the draw or fade before they can gain the advantage for using either one vs a straight ball. But its very difficult to explain why its better. .

Sometimes I try to tell someone this when the subject does pop up on rare occasion. I hope its a good analogy. Technically (on contrary to what most will think) when driving a car on the highway people will generally sway (even if just a tad) somewhat from side to side when going dead on straight. You see and experience it all the time from our selves and others when the highway is straight on. There are always an almost constant even if subtle corrections But when in a turn we will generally be much smoother in keeping a smoother line. Something about the added extra variable that actually makes for better control. I guess we are controlling the amount of turn where as going straight there is no amount of anything to control except for trying to be perfectly dead on straight and is harder to actually do.

 

[rollin]

I am not to dictate this as though I am 100% correct but is simply how I understand the difference in power vs speed.

I believe there is something to be said for power and speed. I think both exist separately but when put together correctly are the perfect storm. I am to understand the ability through correct timing for everything (all body motions) to come together all as precise as possible to the point of contact puts more of your body into the strike. Basically adds more mass or energy behind the ball. That mass being your body or the energy from your body transferring to the ball. Upper, mid and lower body.

We've all heard the expression "all arms" like in baseball. Commentators will often compliment when a hitter knocks one out with just his arms admiring his strength to do it without using much body. Basically a miss hit, his timing was off or he was slightly fooled by a pitch and had to adjust. Either way he did not get his body into the ball but it went out anyway even with the loss of his body mass (or energy) behind the ball and that's why the admirable comment. Some few guys do it all the time but not most. Had he got his body into the ball it would have gone even much farther. For most hitters not getting the body involved enough will often enough generally be the difference in a long fly pop and caught for the out vs the home run even if the swing speed is the same.

A heavier bat (more mass) at the same swing speed will also hit the ball farther than a lighter bat. That is a fact (more mass) and more power. So (like the heavier bat) when we add our body weight or transfer the body's energy via all motions coming together at the right precise time its like putting more mass behind the ball with results similar to a heavier bat vs a lighter one. Same speed but more power put into the ball.

Hey, this doesn't sound all too bad after a "Black label" on the rocks. Does it?

 

[BIRDOG]

How I see power and motion..I will keep this simple. we can drop all the other thoughts that get generated from just to many ways to look at MOTION. So we have three things IN GOLF to deal with that move or are going to move. BALL CLUB PERSON. Its just as simple as that for being very clear on what are the three Components of The Golf game. The rules are that they dont have to all sink up in order to make the game easy or you improving. There is no best design club nor ball for playing great everday. There is no optimum height either low or high for getting the ball close or away from where your having to go and that is the CUP. You will be called upon during every round to produce some way to get from here to there because only you put you in that spot. What puts you in bad spots is always because you were trying to mechanically control the ball and club and what you thought would do this in fact did that and at that point that becomes an issue because what you thought didnt work so you simply think I have no clue how to do what I thought. Well on the BALL AND THE CLUB AND YOUR PERSON points of your and everyones interest will have to be the SOUTH POLE OR BOTTOM FOLLOWED BY A MIDLINE OE EQUATOR THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE IN THE MIDDLE OF THINGS FOLLOWED BY THE TOP AND THEN THERE IS FRONT AND BACK. Those are the order of IMPORTANCE SIMPLY because the further down the list you believe starting at the ball the most important aspect of controlling your score through the ball will always translate up for reason of all three must focus on the same orientation for reasons of it so easy when you do. The Hardest point is the SOUTH POLE so with that said maybe starting out your place is elsewhere therefore you work to get to the SOUTH POLE that how you start improving BUT on your way there there are times even a SOUTH POLE GUY just needs lets say to move the back or move the front or CHOP AT THE EQUATOR or TUMBLE THE NORTH POLE for reasons of I BET YOUR NOT IN THE FAIRWAY OR MISSED THE GREEN AND THATS WHEN THOSE COME INTO PLAY. ANY THOUGHTS OR FEEL PAST YOUR TWO HANDS TWO FEET AND HEAD are a waste of time and on your best days it becomes just Set your head up relative to the south pole and go. SPEAKING ONLY AS A SOUTH POLE DOMINATE CONTROLLER OF THE BALL MY TOOL AND MYSELF. ALSO WE ARE A MOVING INVERTED PENDULUM FROM SECTION TO SECTION THAT IS STILL ALL CONNECTED SOMEWAY SOME HOW.... YOU HAVE TO EXPECT YOUR SOFT TISSUE TO PERFORM HOW IT SHOULD AS WELL AS THE SOLID TISSUE. We are a continuous tension system with brief moments of compression we dont have to worry about creating forces or expelling forces we just do. Solid is A PERSONAL THING AND IMPLIES A LOT OF WAYS WE ALSO NEED NOT SOLID AND THIN AND CHUNKY AT CERTAIN TIMES FOR KILLING THE ENERGY INTO THE BALL BECAUSE CONDITIONS ARE VERY FIRM VERY FAST OR JUST FAST GREENS WITH SOFT FLOOR. Golf is about understanding how to USE THE LOFT AND ADDING OR SUBTRACTING IT IS A FUNCTION OF WHAT REGION OF THE BALL YOUR TRYING TO APPLY AND CONTROL THAT WITH. I understand as well that we can simply not care and just whack it well I just simply dont care alot and know i am whacking the south pole because I have taught myself how to use and apply it to all three things in the game. The small bones of hands and feet and this is the only body stuff ill speak of allow for your state of FUNCTION TO BE GOOD GREAT OR BAD. FROM DAY TO DAY WE WILL VARY IN HOW THEY WILL OPERATE AND OR HOW THEY INTERACT WITH WHAT WE SEE OUTSIDE OF US. Your job is to be aware that they create FUNCTION AND MOVEMENT AND STABILITY BUT ARE CONNECTED TO ALL OF YOU AND BETWEEN THOSE FAR POINTS IS A HEAD MOUNTED ON TOP SO THERE'S FIVE AREAS THAT ARE ALWAYS DOING THE WORK AND EFFORT. Human movement is just about those points or places all the other stuff is just stuff and its all connected to the outer LIMBS AS YOUR HEAD IS A LIMB THAT IF BREAKS YOUR DEAD SO TREAT IT AS SUCH AND WITH RESPECT AND IF IT MOVES IT MOVES WHO CARES THE WAY YOU THINK AT THAT MOMENT MAY DICTATE THAT. The Divot on the ground or the spot on the face is all you have to understand why or how to make all things work together. Sweet spots and CG's and BALANCED whatever are STATIC NON MOVING THINGS. EVERYTHING IN MOTION THINGS SHIFT AND MOVE AROUND AND DO NOT HAVE TO BE CENTERED OR PIVOTAL OR PREDICTABLE IN ORDER FOR THAT MASS IN MOTION TO WORK BEST SO UNBALANCED THING PERFORM JUST AS WELL AS BALANCE THING. Think balance is key sucks you right back into thinking your doing something wrong and that sucks you right back into you just made Golf hard again and you stop moving period and start flinching and stalling and sticking. YOU CAN MOVE THE BALL YOU AND CLUB FROM ANY ANGLE TO ANY ANGLE THROUGH AT ANY ANGLE AND IF YOUR DIVOT POINTS OR EXPLAINS WHY YOUR BALL LEFT THAT WAY AND WENT THAT WAY OR DIDN"T GO THAT WAY THEN YOU KNOW HOW IT WENT WRONG OR RIGHT. ALL A BALLS DISTANCE COMES FROM A COLLISION AND SWEEPING IS A COLLISION WITH HIGH AMOUNTS OF SPIN or HIGH AMOUNTS OF LOW IN THE FACE AND THE BALL WILL NOT RISE BUT IT WILL TRAVEL FORWARD.. Its only a screw up if you did not intend to do that no matter what you do. SO UNDERSTANDING HOW TO MOVE THE ROUND BALL FROM HERE TO THERE BASED ON WHATS IT USING FOR TRACTION WE KNOW WHAT THE PROPULSION IS COMING FROM IS HOW YOU HAVE TO BREAK THE GAME DOWN. In flight its the AIR AND IF THE AIR IS MOVING AND WHAT DIRECTION and for some what density or non density do I play in. EVERYTHING IS A MANIPULATION BASED ON SIZE AND SCALE OF THE MANIPULATION REQUIRED IN YOUR WORLD OF HOW TO DO IT. Now you will all learn and find some new cool way to hit this shot or do this or do that. THE COOLNESS OF A SHOT STILL COUNTS AS ONE AND THE NON COOLNESS OF A SHOT COUNTS AS ONE AND IF THEY BOTH GO IN WHICH ONE IS MENTALLY EASIER TO DO WHEN IT COUNTS COOL COMES WHEN YOU HAVE TO RECOVER OR OVERCOME A BAD ANGLE. Just pay attention on the course and you learn when MORE MANIPULATION IS REQUIRED AND WHEN LESS MANIPULATION IS REQUIRED. I will stick with little curves and balls falling one way or another I BIG CURVE IT WHEN IM NOT IN FAIRWAY PERIOD OR IF TEE SHOT DEMANDS IT OTHER THEN THAT I DON"T RISK A BAD SCORE FOR THINKING I MUST CURVE IT NOR DO I THINK CURVING IT GUARANTEES A GREAT SCORE again the AIR HAS A LOT TO SAY AND DO WITH WHAT YOU DO ITS WITH OR AGAINST YOU PLAYING WELL. DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO WITH YOUR HANDS TO GET THE BALL WHERE YOU TOTALLY BELIEVE YOU NEED TO GET IT AND its about LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION for IMPROVEMENT AND PLAYING AT A HIGH LEVEL. HOW FAR IS JUST HOW FAR YOU CAN RELOCATE THE BALL AND YES SOME DO IT FARTHER THEN OTHERS BUT THE BEST RELOCATE IT BETTER REGARDLESS OF THEIR ABILITIES TO MOVE IT FAR PERIOD END OF STORY. DOING A TASK FOR HARDER LEADS TO AT SOME POINT YOU WILL HURT YOURSELF AND YOU TOTALLY LOST YOUR ABILITY TO PERFORM WELL YOUR EVERY THOUGHT IS ABOUT DISTANCE and that I cannot help one with and do not care to because your body can do it all and not very thing or cell in you is designed for power or stretch so your nerve cells gets chewed to bits on a laymen s term level and lots of other things with that focus and or intent. Your gray matter can handle BALL CONTROL AND SCORE CONTROL UNREAL WELL AND GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO MOVE THAT CONTROL A LITTLE FARTHER IF NEEDED BUT IT SOMETIMES LAYING BACK IN ORDER TO SUCCEED AND GIVE OUR SELF OUR BEST ROUND THAT DAY OR THAT SHOT AT THAT MOMENT POSSIBLE. So control leads to less movement simply because your not having to whind up for length and length leads to you having to move to accomplish it either more or faster. so shifts of things are relative to the dynamics f how hard you think you need to move the ball goes straight into how you think you need to move the club in order to do it. Thats what TEMPO IS or thinking out a shot to be played whats needed from these 5 points to be successful to do this right now. That wont ever change all 5 points will on every shot have to sort it out and one day you will just walk up and stand there and apply the answer with these 5 areas doing it as 1. What people see is there issue not your and don't feel the need to explain it. They work of of some totally different IDEA OR BOOK OR WHO KNOWS WHAT and WHO CARES. No matter if we push or pull or swing or hit THE MUSCLES AND BONES WORK HOW THEY WORK ON LINES OF PULL OR LINES OF MOVEMENT SO EXPECT THEM TO DO THAT AND IF YOU WANT TO THINK PUSH PULL TUG OR WHATEVER THAT'S YOUR CHOICE OR THINK NADA ITS A BETTER CHOICE AND YOU WILL LEARN WHERE THE RESISTANCE IS IN THINGS BY NOT TRYING TO CREATE A FEEL OR LEVERAGE OR LOAD. FLEX THE GRIP THE SHAFT FLEXES HENCE THE HEAD FLEXES THATS HOW THAT THING STACKS OUT you can FLEX THE MIDDLE YES or just MOVE THE HEAD on some path or track you see fit they all produce a great shot no one is better then the other. The Kick in a shaft has been and will always be after the ball has left for on and its unpredictable for two and your hand or hands can do what the same thing the shaft is trying to do anyways, If you workout and lift lots of weight they you realized how much load your hands and arms can do with a weight bar flexing against them with dead weights on the ends put it on your torso and see how long it can take that kinda stress or load its the same thing as wanting your body to flex anything or whip or pivot it . AGAIN Golf is easy if you train it to be played that way. Ball location trumps everything Im just lucky I can relocate mine any distance needed as relates to a Golf hole there not all 600 yard holes and if they were i still have three shots to get it there getting there early has no advantage other then it can backfire on you.

LMFAO, I read like ten lines before I realized you were just messing around.

 

[Mystery Meat]

In order to get speed..you must master the basics of the South Pole..IMO..I will keep this brief and to the point.

First some examples of masters of the SOUTH POLE its only for one reason this is how i have come to see it and understand does not mean you have to I am just sharing with you what I have found to be a mind opening world for function movement control rather then just beating the curved surface of something hoping for a good outcome. Watch all the ways he controls the south pole and the fact that he just nudges or rolls or influences everyone around him by doing so and it gives him a perfect eye view of their feet so he can read what they are thinking and move the south pole accordingly. The south pole from a non hands perspective. Control OTHER OBJECTS for scoring or handling is important to at least be aware so that you don't train from the perspective of just kick on it that's why his feet touch every part you can imagine most people just pound the same place all there life and never get to use the ball to its potential nor them self so unless the angles right there toast but he creates the angle and opprotunity he sees at that moment. Yes he can do alot BUT IT STARTED WITH HOW DO I HANDLE THIS THING TO MY POTENTIAL AT SOME POINT IN HIS LIFE. He may of just saw it or was told or whatever but the only way a ball hugs the turf and moves that way like he does in is keeping the south pole under control from everyplace possible. I personal tried it both with soccer ball and golf ball to prove to ME that its either the way or what is another way they gives me the ability to keep this thing in the field of play I am given yet at the same time around thing that get in my way. Two hands two feet and his head working unlimted angles unlimited stop starts or turns and forwards and backwards movement. there is nothing LINEAR OR STRAIGHT LINE ABOUT HIM HE IS ALL OVER THE PLACE and thats good because his not a victim of NO IMAGINATION. There are more then just him in soccer he just happens to be one I appreciate the little small cool things he does while playing and the amount of BELIEF IN HIMSELF IT TAKES TO DO IT AND NOT CARE IF HE GETS BURNED THAT IS THE BIG PART HE DONT CARE IF IT WORKS OR NOT HE DOES IT THE OTHER TEAM IS TO BUSY GOING JESUS THIS GUYS FEET ARE FREAKING ME OUT THEY CANNOT PREDICT WHERE HE IS THINKING OR GOING AND WATCH HE OFTEN GOES RIGHT THROUGH THEM OR OFF THEM THEY ARE LETS GO AROUND THINKERS IF IT FITS OR IT CAN BOUNCE OF IN HIS FAVOR HE TAKES THAT CHANCE. Doing tricks when at practice is one thing doing this when it counts and when your career is going to be judge by your STATS is a career that you can say I did all I wanted to with that soccer ball when I did it. That is what the biggest thing I HAVE LEARNED IS THAT WHAT DID I DO WITH THAT GOLF BALL WHILE I HAD A CHANCE TO DO IT ITS ME AND THE GOLF BALL WE ARE TEAM MATES HE IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN THE TOOL BECAUSE THE TOOL HE IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS FOR ME OR AGAINST ME. The other players may compete against whatever I have learned that the ball and me are 1 and let the day fall out as it may but I will get everything I want out of that day and take the good and bad and make this game MENTALLY SO SIMPLE ITS STUPID. Few have had the chance to see me when I get in that place and I take the ball and do what I do bank shots hole outs skidders toppers whatever but thats how i got to know how to USE THE SOUTH POLE WHERE BEFORE IT WAS ALWAYS WHERE AM I COMING IN FROM OR WHATS MY PATH OT WHATS THIS AND WHY THAT. NO MORE ITS ROUND THERES A POINT ON IT THAT GETS THIS AFFECT AND THE BOTTOM CONTROLS THE STABILITY OF THAT AFFECT . If you can do cute and fancy then plane jane STRAIGHT is really just all you want to do but you got CREATIVITY AKA FANCY IF NEEDED.

 

[Juddphoto]

Wow, Carnage, I finally found your the whole post of your question after three days or so. I hope I can offer a better answer than before. Club-head speed and ball contact do combine to produce the directional force that determines the distance the ball travels. When I say this my understanding is that you mean the speed of the club head and the nature of the impact the club head has on the ball as determined by both the swing path of the club head and the angle of the club head to the impact point of the ball.

These two forces, club head speed, and "angle of impact" are the two major variables in producing ball speed and flight trajectory of the ball. Once you can produce a relatively straight swing arc, or swing path, and you can bring the club face square to the ball at impact, you can begin to work the ball by making small changes to your swing. In short you can learn to draw or fade the ball and all the variations of those two shots, cuts, etc...

In a recent article in Golf, or Golf Digest, the case was made for the swing path of the club head being accountable for something like 80 percent of the flight path of the ball while the angle of the face at impact with the ball only had 20% influence on the flight of the ball. The importance of all this is that if you mis-hit a ball at top speed, it will not travel as far as a ball properly struck at a lower speed because the mis-hit will travel away from its target, left or right being irrelevant on a flat surface. Okay, all that is basic stuff. But there is the juicy stuff.

Almost all the distance gained by golfers over the past twenty plus years has been due to changes in ball design, not because players are generating greater speed, or making better contact with the ball, or because the clubs are better. For hitting with. No, it is because the balls are made to travel greater distances when they are struck with the same amount of power "(speed and mass)" as before. That is why ball fitting has become important. Because there are so many different types of hitters out there and the ball companies have begun to customize the ball to fit the type of hitter you are.

Yet, in the end, a player who can generate faster club head speed, and return the club face to square at impact will outhit the other guy as long as he is hitting the right ball for who he is.

What is interesting is that one day there may be only one set of tees for men and women. Players will simply play different balls to equalize distance. Although I don't think that will come about for reasons we do not need to discuss, it would be possible to neutralize distance as a factor. I actually think it would be great to play against someone who was handicapped in some way that affected their distance and I could be given a ball that created equality between us, or vice versa.

 

[blugold]

Jeebus this thread.

 

[JB]

One more chance to keep this on topic before we just lock it up

 

[blugold]

Almost all the distance gained by golfers over the past twenty plus years has been due to changes in ball design, not because players are generating greater speed, or making better contact with the ball, or because the clubs are better. For hitting with. No, it is because the balls are made to travel greater distances when they are struck with the same amount of power "(speed and mass)" as before. That is why ball fitting has become important. Because there are so many different types of hitters out there and the ball companies have begun to customize the ball to fit the type of hitter you are.

I don't think ALL the distance gain is because of the ball. Players are fitter and better coached now. It's not because of the equipment.

 

[Mystery Meat]

:act-up:Very good thread,,,nice cut and dry. I love reading and looking at items from different prospectives. I just got done reading a power accumulator topic by JoRgen Erickson III. He states that a item has more power by "moving without moving". I find this interesting and will delve further..that is why I mentioned the South Pole theory.

it appears the area of force you apply is key..

great stuff.

 

[Mystery Meat]

I don't think ALL the distance gain is because of the ball. Players are fitter and better coached now. It's not because of the equipment.

Agree,,but need to look at this from all angles ..keep an open mind to this. I will see if I can try and contact lee. A engineer type of a mind and thought process is what I always enjoy. Than I will sit and try and decipher. Didn't mean to babble, but once I get going..I get going.

Interesting stuff

 

[kc720]

Swing speed comes from proper technique. Power comes from swing speed generated by proper technique. Distance comes from proper contact and transferring all the power generated by good swing speed etc... and swinging hard is counter productive to all of that...

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

 

[Mystery Meat]

Swing speed comes from proper technique. Power comes from swing speed generated by proper technique. Distance comes from proper contact and transferring all the power generated by good swing speed etc... and swinging hard is counter productive to all of that...

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

agree ..The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, 'A flute with no holes is not a flute. And a doughnut with no hole is a danish.'"

a lot of times it has to do with all the stars being aligned correctly per say. Repetition my young man..repetition,,. Repeat a task that is done effectively, and than ingrain it,

excellent

 

[blugold]

Agree,,but need to look at this from all angles ..keep an open mind to this. I will see if I can try and contact lee. A engineer type of a mind and thought process is what I always enjoy. Than I will sit and try and decipher. Didn't mean to babble, but once I get going..I get going.

Interesting stuff

I need to consider that distance gains are from the ball? Nah. I don't. Players are stronger, more flexible, better coached by smarter people with better tools. Does the ball help? Sure. But it isn't the reason for ALL the distance gains.

 

[Mystery Meat]

I need to consider that distance gains are from the ball? Nah. I don't. Players are stronger, more flexible, better coached by smarter people with better tools. Does the ball help? Sure. But it isn't the reason for ALL the distance gains.

a lot of it is hereditary, some of us may never hit it far no matter are genetics. I'm a shirt hitter,...but straight..very straight. Would love to hit farther, but a 42 and a bad back..I take what I get brother

 

[blugold]

a lot of it is hereditary, some of us may never hit it far no matter are genetics. I'm a shirt hitter,...but straight..very straight. Would love to hit farther, but a 42 and a bad back..I take what I get brother

But that doesn't mean whatever distance you have gained is because of the ball.