Slow Play is my nemesis
Tadashi70
Well-known member
You tell them at the start of the round to keep up with the group in front of them. This idea is reappeared by the Marshall. If they get out of position they need to get back into position.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
Will that service include you and I riding around the course with a baseball bat
Shane you so violent, lol. Maybe we kill them with kindness. Free drink if they finish at 4 hours or under. 15% their next tee time
Johnny mojo
Mojovated!
That's the best idea I have heard yet. Seriously, sometimes it's just a matter of keeping it simple. You gonna give me a 15% pump the next time I come to play? You bet your sweet six iron Im gonna keep up, and make sure the people in front are moving on as well.
JM
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
51 states and how many millions of golfers? I don't think it would be that easy.
I get what your saying but I think your missing the point of my question. How do you teach them not to be slow? How do you get to the weekend guy with his buddies and doesn't take lessons to play quicker before they even see the course. How do you teach them to play ready golf or how to best operate a golf cart or not take 2 shots off half the tees and how long someone should look for a lost ball.
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
You can say this all you want, but the officially acceptable pace of play on my home course has been 4:25 since I first started playing the course more than 30 years ago. 2:10 per nine and 5 minutes for the turn. And yet play is heavier now than it was in the early 80's when that policy was established. Play really has only slacked off a little during a couple of recessions for financial reasons. The course has matured a lot, and can be slightly more difficult to play than it once was, but the pace really hasn't changed. 4½ hour rounds haven't reduced the annual round count one iota.
Can I play the course faster than the posted pace? Sure, as can most of the people I play with. Since I retired and am no longer confined to weekends, I often do play faster (but not always as this course can be full during prime time 7 days a week). Because of the sheer numbers of players we get, playing faster is rarely an option. It must be wonderful to play a private club with a limited base of players. I have never had that luxury. Public golf is what it is. Allowance must be made for players of all levels. Thus, the more liberal time which is considered "acceptable". If the course is partially supported by local taxes, then management policies can have political overtones. Nobody can be excluded without significant justification. The spectre of being accused of preferential treatment always hangs over any such decisions.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
Scrap we can round and round and you can come up with idea after idea of why it won't work. How about you offer up a solution to the issue?
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
I don't have one hence the question. The 15% off that you said I could see a lot of guys racing around trying to get under time for the deal and then they leave the course in horrible shape and not enjoying the game. I see a lot of what you are saying in previous posts as punishment and not teaching. Penalize them all you want but how will they know how to pick up the pace.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
Dude if you don't have a solution how about you stop ripping mine apart. Stop being a Debbie downer and offer up some solutions.
I see this as an issue and am willing to throw my ideas out there. I don't need you ripping them apart with your negative outlook. Why assume the worse would happen.
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
Your reading it wrong. I'm not trying to rip your idea's. I think we have different thoughts about it. You seem to be trying to get the golfers who are already on the course and I'm thinking about how to get the golfers about to go to the course.
If I remember correctly a former member was from Switzerland and they had to take progressive steps to be able to play a regular 18 hole course and have tests and handicaps. I think to eliminate slow play and improve etiquette is to have some type of system with tests and a handing out of cards to be able to play certain courses and as you learn you would be restricted to other courses. This however would not grow the game and would have many people stepping away from it and the courses would lose money.
I would also like to see courses going from 8 minute tee times to 12.
Tadashi70
Well-known member
I'm not missing anything. Golfers know slow play is an issue but still choose play slow. In Germany you can't play until you have passed a course in rules and skill. US golfers would never go for that because you can't tell them anything. They do what and when they want.
Offer and incentive negative or positive will buy old learning. Pavlov's dog has proven that. If you reward oglers for a 4 hour round and they sucked several times you can take away the incentive and they will play in 4 hours. It's a learned behavior.
Going the other route of penalizing will have the same affect. Golfers that haven't reached the course are well aware of this issue unless they are a once a month golfer. This issue is discussed on TV, on forums, in print. It's not like they don't know.
TNTCigarguy
2014 #THPMC @TntCigarguy
Well said Freddie, well said.
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
You can tell them. You make rules and adhere to them. Set up a progressive system as an individual grows. I'm more of a position of education and teaching a player not penalizing them. Golf should be fun and penalizing them is not what I consider fun. A lot of slow play is from once a month golfers so they don't know. If you get 4-5 groups that golf once a month on the weekend they are going to bring the pace of play to a stand still. I think longer times between each group can help them play at a reasonable pace without people standing and salivating over their next shot.
- Admin
- #139
Whoa. Guys. Simmer down a bit in here.
People are just debating and having a conversation.
People are just debating and having a conversation.
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
The interesting thing about slow play is that you could poll a thousand players and none of them would see themselves as part of the problem. Some it comes from course design/setup and some of it comes from the me me me world we live in today.
I hurry to get done at work, to hurry to get to the course where I can enjoy the great outdoors, great friends/family and golf. If its slow, I just go with the flow. Life goes by fast enough. The world has gone and gotten in one big hurry and with that said, I hate being held up as much as anyone, but when it happens it happens. I also avoid peak times like weekend mornings (unless I'm playing skins) and holidays. I play a lot in the evening and slow play is really not an issue.
I hurry to get done at work, to hurry to get to the course where I can enjoy the great outdoors, great friends/family and golf. If its slow, I just go with the flow. Life goes by fast enough. The world has gone and gotten in one big hurry and with that said, I hate being held up as much as anyone, but when it happens it happens. I also avoid peak times like weekend mornings (unless I'm playing skins) and holidays. I play a lot in the evening and slow play is really not an issue.
Scrap Iron
On The Eh Team
Sorry to derail the thread a little guys.
Borss
New member
You can't change others so there's no use in letting it upset you.
Fourputt
Head Rules Official
You can play ready golf all you want on an open course - we do the same. When the course is full and there isn't any discernible gap, then you play at whatever pace is the rule of the day. Even when tee times are at 9 minute intervals, sheer volume can bog the course down from just one group having a problem.
I have to call foul on this. We jealously guard our freedoms. While freedom to play golf wasn't mentioned in the Constitution, threatening to bar a taxpayer from a municipal course because he sucks at golf just won't fly. However, he can still be expected to hold to a course's recommended pace of play policy, if that course has actually established one. My home course is part of a tax supported recreational district, but that doesn't mean that we ignore problem situations. That's what rangers are supposed to be for. If the course doesn't have such personnel, or doesn't empower them to deal with extreme cases, then I'd find another place to play.
Some courses do take such things seriously. If a reasonably managed course sees that slow play is the cause of reduced revenues, then they will do what is needed to get their act together, or go out of business.
To the first part, you are right. If the course is open, ready golf is king and everyone can play at a good pace and have a ton of fun.
And to the second, we have lots of courses around here that tell you to play in 4:20 at the max but no one even tries. Why? No marshalls. It's the one thing that I hate and I wish it would change but I don't think it ever will. So even though there are set rules, no one adheres to them because no one enforces them. Its a vicious cycle and it's why I will only play certain courses because usually pace of play is pretty good no matter when you play.
Dogman
Re-load
The course I work at went to 10. I think the program actually throws a 9 minute one in once in a while, but pretty much 6 tee times an hour. They figure if you wait until the first group is at least putting before the next group trees off, they stay apart and it runs smoother. Works most days, but I've seen it get screwed up by the third group of the morning. They had a 7, 7:09, and 7:19. At 7:25, the :19 group calls the clubhouse from the tee box, and there's a problem. Dudes from the :09 group are still in the fairway, and the first group is long gone. I have to go take a look, and they are already looking for lost balls out on private property, and sitting there while one dude takes over 10 practice swings, then squirts on OB. They go look for it. I had to ask them to please keep up with the group in front of them, and they just said they couldn't. The other guys were too fast. We didn't have a "Marshall" show up until 8. These dudes should probably have gone bowling.
gatoreric
Member
The real issue is my slow play reading all these responses. Lol. I tried to catch up. Good points by everyone. I have no idea how the pros play as well as they do with all the waiting they do.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dr RosenRosen
Active member
What if a course had a rule that the first two hours of tee times were 4 hour rounds only. The marshall would note what time you teed off and then 4 hours later, regardless of where you are on the course, you are done.
Perhaps the course even offers these rounds at discounted rates. Players that like to play fast would snatch them up. The course wouldn't get bogged down early in the day which would alleviate pressure at prime time, and maybe, just maybe, players that typically play slow would learn how to play faster. The course may also see an economic benefit because players may rent more carts to ensure they finish within the 4 hour time frame.
(Also, how funny would it be to watch the old guys sprinting on 17 and 18 because the clock is ticking and they see the marshall driving their way!)
Perhaps the course even offers these rounds at discounted rates. Players that like to play fast would snatch them up. The course wouldn't get bogged down early in the day which would alleviate pressure at prime time, and maybe, just maybe, players that typically play slow would learn how to play faster. The course may also see an economic benefit because players may rent more carts to ensure they finish within the 4 hour time frame.
(Also, how funny would it be to watch the old guys sprinting on 17 and 18 because the clock is ticking and they see the marshall driving their way!)
Golf 'N Gator
Formally HoosierGolfer
You have to consider that course length's and course setups have a huge impact on slow play, no only at our level, but at the professional level as well.
My home course has a par 5 where there is OB right all the way from the tee to green (500+ yards) with a wide creek at 225 yards (OB right) and a huge cotton wood tree left. This is huge bottleneck hole at our course. The 225 yard creek is the carry distance for many people so there is tons of time lost there looking for balls, and the OB right is an overgrown fence row that splits the front nine and back nine. There are groups waiting at this tee everyday, all day. This is a course problem. It is not all about the "player". The course super's have a part in this very sore subject. This was part of the topic at the PGA show this winter.
I'm on the board at my home course and we have signs in the carts, and at the first tee that says you should complete your round in no more than 4 hours - 15 minutes. Hard to do when you have a hole that averages 25+ minutes to play. We also have angle deep rough most of the time and I see people walking back and forth, back and forth looking for a ball that only missed the fairway by five yards. Change has to start somewhere and it needs to start between the ears of many course super's.
My home course has a par 5 where there is OB right all the way from the tee to green (500+ yards) with a wide creek at 225 yards (OB right) and a huge cotton wood tree left. This is huge bottleneck hole at our course. The 225 yard creek is the carry distance for many people so there is tons of time lost there looking for balls, and the OB right is an overgrown fence row that splits the front nine and back nine. There are groups waiting at this tee everyday, all day. This is a course problem. It is not all about the "player". The course super's have a part in this very sore subject. This was part of the topic at the PGA show this winter.
I'm on the board at my home course and we have signs in the carts, and at the first tee that says you should complete your round in no more than 4 hours - 15 minutes. Hard to do when you have a hole that averages 25+ minutes to play. We also have angle deep rough most of the time and I see people walking back and forth, back and forth looking for a ball that only missed the fairway by five yards. Change has to start somewhere and it needs to start between the ears of many course super's.
dpgator33
Active member
There is a solution to this problem, not one that I have in mind with specifics, but technology would have to be involved. Think ad-hoc wifi, RFID, incentives for quick play, hidden(or not) monitors on tee boxes and greens, a way for the course to better keep track of and manage without having to troll some guy on a cart all the time telling people to keep pace.
Private/elite courses may not have to do this sort of thing but I guarantee someone is out there developing something like this.
As relatively cheap as this sort of technology is becoming, it's only a matter of time.
Not exactly apples to apples, but I envision an evolution similar to how bowling alleys now keep score. It wasn't too long ago that bowlers had to write down their scores after every shot and add up between frames, etc.
Almost every course I play at has some guy scribbling down your cart number and taking down your name. Doesn't that seem a little antiquated?
Maybe I am way off, just thought I would share that thought on the subject.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Private/elite courses may not have to do this sort of thing but I guarantee someone is out there developing something like this.
As relatively cheap as this sort of technology is becoming, it's only a matter of time.
Not exactly apples to apples, but I envision an evolution similar to how bowling alleys now keep score. It wasn't too long ago that bowlers had to write down their scores after every shot and add up between frames, etc.
Almost every course I play at has some guy scribbling down your cart number and taking down your name. Doesn't that seem a little antiquated?
Maybe I am way off, just thought I would share that thought on the subject.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk