How much are you willing to pay for extra distance off the tee???

[jlukes]

This thread has some great info on maximizing distance

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...river-Center-of-Gravity-Launch-Angle-and-Spin

from this article

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/launchOptimize.php

In closing, let me review my recommendations and the reasons for them:

1. Begin by finding the length, shaft, and clubhead that the golfer hits consistently, at high ball speed, in a consistent place on the clubface. Use a loft within 2-3º of what the golfer needs, but don't worry too much about loft now -- just consistency, ball speed, and comfort. This is the step where you have to be good at the clubfitting art, and it is necessary to get this right if the rest is to follow.
2. Now vary the loft, using these components, to give the maximum distance for the golfer.
3. You are now within 10 yards -- 15 at the most -- of what is "on the table" for that golfer's swing. You might be able to get a small fraction of this distance using a launch monitor and different shafts. Bigger improvement can be made if you can get the golfer to hit the ball consistently high-center on the clubface.

Remember that errors in step #1 can cost 5-20 yards consistently, or even the ability to hit consistent drives. Don't get caught up in step #3, where fewer yards are harder won.

 

[sandiegonative]

FWIW, I was discussing how a club is marketed, not the tech specs listed on the website. Listing the adjustability of a club like Callaway is wonderful and their wording uses the term forgiveness. But keep in mind that TaylorMade also lists all of their adjustability of each club. So does every other company.

ICT is what they tout about forgiveness and discuss it often with just about every single club they release.

If you want to talk about just what companies list on their website, I can do that. Here is a piece directly under a TaylorMade driver.

JetSpeed is the first-ever driver to incorporate TaylorMade’s renowned Speed Pocket technology. Why put the Speed Pocket in a driver, which is already at the COR limit of .822? In this case the Speed Pocket is engineered to promote less spin. JetSpeed’s Speed Pocket also offers a huge performance advantage when impact is made low on the face, where most driver mis-hits occur. With most drivers, low impact generates too much spin, making the ball fly too high and land short. JetSpeed’s Speed Pocket is engineered to minimize that added spin dramatically, to give you more distance. You’ll get a noticeable boost in power when you catch it thin. And when you hit it center-face? Ba-boom.

Here is another.

SLDR is built to help you hit longer/straighter drives by promoting a high launch angle, lower spin-rate and faster ball speed.

If that is not about forgiveness, I am not sure what is. While I am not promoting any product in this, I hit everything and play what I think works best for me, which right now is a Callaway driver, but I think you might be looking at this the wrong way.

Maybe, I'm not conveying my thoughts correctly but I agree with most everything you are saying.

For clarification, those statements about how the technology aids in forgiveness are IMO a part of marketing, print marketing to be exact. When I think of technical specifications, I think head volume, loft, shaft, and etc. Maybe that's just me. I don't know. I have no clue how I missed the line about "straighter drives" with the SLDR. Thanks for pointing that out.

With all that said, I think we can both agree, overall the SLDR marketing/selling point is about gaining distance. Callaway on the other hand is marketing BB as a driver for the masses, distance, forgiveness, and one size fits most. They are marketing the BBA as a driver for those looking for maximum adjustability that will lead to launch/spin characteristics never before achievable.

At the end of the day. I believe I've done what you stated. Tried out drivers and selected the best one for both good and bad swings.

 

[sandiegonative]

Thanks for the link to your post JLukes. I'll check them out when I get home.

 

[JB]

Maybe, I'm not conveying my thoughts correctly but I agree with most everything you are saying.

For clarification, those statements about how the technology aids in forgiveness are IMO a part of marketing, print marketing to be exact. When I think of technical specifications, I think head volume, loft, shaft, and etc. Maybe that's just me. I don't know. I have no clue how I missed the line about "straighter drives" with the SLDR. Thanks for pointing that out.

With all that said, I think we can both agree, overall the SLDR marketing/selling point is about gaining distance. Callaway on the other hand is marketing BB as a driver for the masses, distance, forgiveness, and one size fits most. They are marketing the BBA as a driver for those looking for maximum adjustability that will lead to launch/spin characteristics never before achievable.

At the end of the day. I believe I've done what you stated. Tried out drivers and selected the best on for both good and bad swings.

Actually I dont agree with that. However I do think Callaway does a very good job of conveying the forgiveness message. Both of these companies are marketing distance. Plain and simple pure distance. #KingsofDistance #HammerPatch #BombPatch #LongerFromEverywhere . Heck we are hosting 4 events with Callaway Golf this year and one of them is called The King and its all about the distance their driver creates.

I think that TaylorMade and Callaway have done a good job with the marketing of their drivers this year, and because of that firmly hold #1 and #2 in sales (SLDR & Big Bertha). FWIW, I think for my game the Callaway product does a better job, but that is just me.

 

[sandiegonative]

Measured a couple of drives in my last round with my GPS. Between 270 and 280 which is further than I thought. Quite a bit further actually. I also hit 64% of fairways (there were obviously a couple of non driver holes but not many). Therefor I'm sticking with what I've got. I'm not prepared to pay a cent!!!

Mark,

Those numbers look good to me. I understand your "reluctance" to spend a single cent.

Keep it in the fairway (64% of the time) :clapp:

 

[mancest]

At the THP Ultimate Club Testing with TaylorMade this year they spoke about the forgiveness of the SLDR. That is the million dollar question as it pertains to marketing and club building. Every company can use the term forgiveness differently because its impossible to measure. Cupped face brings one aspect of it, but its not the human aspect of swing flaws.

FWIW, with the exception of Cobra, I dont see too many companies marketing forgiveness. Callaway did with the XHot line sort of (more distance from everywhere). But the general rule is the average consumer likes over the top marketing about distance. Harry Arnett touched on this in the THP Radio episode last month.

As a general rule, I dont view drivers the same as most. Terms such as hot face are a fallacy and ridiculous when you think about it. I want a driver that performs the best when I am both hitting it ideally and not. Its why we test drivers on the launch monitor outside at the course. Its why we host THP Events and let people test what they want on the same launch monitor. And its why we put the clubs in the hands of people here to do reviews as well.

Hearing from the masses is very important.

This is a huge one. I recently changed to the X-Hot, Saturday I played and hit some just bombs (for me) with it. I was swinging well, and other then a couple blow up holes had a really great round.

Yesterday, I played 9 holes and could not hit the center of the face for the life of me, a lot of heal shots. The forgiveness of the X-Hot kept them playable (there was a distance loss and some slicing, but nothing like my previous driver) and I ended up with an even better round (score wise) then Saturdays.

I want the best of both worlds, but I won't be giving up the forgiveness of the X-Hot just to have that 1-2 pured drives each round go an extra 15 yds. For my game (and score) the forgiveness will help much more then those extra occ yards gained.

 

[Brianbigoats]

Actually I dont agree with that. However I do think Callaway does a very good job of conveying the forgiveness message. Both of these companies are marketing distance. Plain and simple pure distance. #KingsofDistance #HammerPatch #BombPatch #LongerFromEverywhere . Heck we are hosting 4 events with Callaway Golf this year and one of them is called The King and its all about the distance their driver creates.

I think that TaylorMade and Callaway have done a good job with the marketing of their drivers this year, and because of that firmly hold #1 and #2 in sales (SLDR & Big Bertha). FWIW, I think for my game the Callaway product does a better job, but that is just me.

Distance sells

Distance is how most golf marketing isseems focused i think it is very easy to understand for every level of golfer

 

[sandiegonative]

Actually I dont agree with that. However I do think Callaway does a very good job of conveying the forgiveness message. Both of these companies are marketing distance. Plain and simple pure distance. #KingsofDistance #HammerPatch #BombPatch #LongerFromEverywhere . Heck we are hosting 4 events with Callaway Golf this year and one of them is called The King and its all about the distance their driver creates.

I think that TaylorMade and Callaway have done a good job with the marketing of their drivers this year, and because of that firmly hold #1 and #2 in sales (SLDR & Big Bertha). FWIW, I think for my game the Callaway product does a better job, but that is just me.

Good points, JB. I guess for whatever reason, I've incorrectly associated all that Callaway distance marketing with their X-2Hot line of Drivers. It's probably the "techie" in me (day job).

I've played all the major OEMs and I believe they each make great products. Like you, I'll be gaming a Callaway Driver this year.

 

[sandiegonative]

This is a huge one. I recently changed to the X-Hot, Saturday I played and hit some just bombs (for me) with it. I was swinging well, and other then a couple blow up holes had a really great round.

Yesterday, I played 9 holes and could not hit the center of the face for the life of me, a lot of heal shots. The forgiveness of the X-Hot kept them playable (there was a distance loss and some slicing, but nothing like my previous driver) and I ended up with an even better round (score wise) then Saturdays.

I want the best of both worlds, but I won't be giving up the forgiveness of the X-Hot just to have that 1-2 pured drives each round go an extra 15 yds. For my game (and score) the forgiveness will help much more then those extra occ yards gained.

I'm with you sir. This is how I decide what driver stays in my bag.

 

[JB]

Distance sells

Distance is how most golf marketing isseems focused i think it is very easy to understand for every level of golfer

It really does. Harry addressed it on THP Radio last month. The over the top ads are fun when held in the right light.

Good points, JB. I guess for whatever reason, I've incorrectly associated all that Callaway distance marketing with their X-2Hot line of Drivers. It's probably the "techie" in me (day job).

I've played all the major OEMs and I believe they each make great products. Like you, I'll be gaming a Callaway Driver this year.

I honestly believe Callaway has done a very good job of doing that. Their marketing this year has been spot on.
I can also add that the lucky 8 THPers that end up in #TheGrandaddy Dos, will get to see what is up their sleeves next year too.
Oh wait, also have #TheGauntlet with Callaway and some serious fun and of course #TheKing this weekend and #THPMC (The Ultimate Golf Event Period)

Lots of great stuff...Its all about the fun here buddy. Solid conversation is never a bad thing.

 

[sandiegonative]

I have 5 criteria when looking at any clubs, and I use this same criteria when I fit someone.
1. Look--better love it!
2. Feel-- Better love it more!
3. Ease of swing---not worth it if not easier.
4. Accuracy--if not more accurate or if you are already accurate with old club, then at least as accurate.
5. Distance....get #1-4 on the list...you will get #5.

that said...SHAFT IS HUGE in this discussion. If the shaft is fit properly and puts the face on the ball consistently and gives you another 10-15 yards..just as accurately...big decision here...that is a club less into a green. Distance wise this is my 'fine-line', if you are not closer to the hole enough to get a shorter stick out for the approach, why bother. There are exceptions, if more accurate and easier to hit fairways and less work to swing, then it may be worth it.

I for one would never advocate someone with a consistently good swing to alter it to adjust to a club makers ideals on launch conditions. Loft should get that done, but just the same, some are not going to like looking at 12-14* loft on some drivers....some may.

I have told many people to not be rushing to buy a driver simply since new and marketed to give them more...testing is a much and if the distance is not gained with their current swing...no sale.

I currently play a 9* head, LA is around 13.5-14.5 and spin around 2300-2500 rpms. Get plenty of distance, not sure I can get more without changing my swing and at that rate, wouldn't.

I like your five criteria and thinking about it, I think you just summed up how I find my clubs.

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

I pay more attention to consistency and accuracy with my clubs, but if I get those two things and more distance, basically name the price and I'll pay it. I've noticed that this year, however, I'm leaning more towards lessons than equipment when I'm struggling. As far as drivers go, I may be one of the only guys out there that has probably seen a bit of a distance drop moving to the SLDR from the R1, but the fact that I find the fairway more often and mis hits are less penal are the reasons I keep it. I've been meaning to do a side by side comparison though just to see if I'm remembering my distance with the R1 correctly.

 

[sandiegonative]

It really does. Harry addressed it on THP Radio last month. The over the top ads are fun when held in the right light.


I honestly believe Callaway has done a very good job of doing that. Their marketing this year has been spot on.
I can also add that the lucky 8 THPers that end up in #TheGrandaddy Dos, will get to see what is up their sleeves next year too.
Oh wait, also have #TheGauntlet with Callaway and some serious fun and of course #TheKing this weekend and #THPMC (The Ultimate Golf Event Period)

Lots of great stuff...Its all about the fun here buddy. Solid conversation is never a bad thing.

Thanks again for the solid conversation.

If I'm not selected (high likelihood) I will gladly be someone's caddy just for the chance to be a wallflower at one of those events.

 

[JB]

Thanks again for the solid conversation.

If I'm not selected (high likelihood) I will gladly be someone's caddy just for the chance to be a wallflower at one of those events.

Lots of ways to enter buddy. Here is the full calendar and each event has a link under it you can click on and see how to enter. Anybody can be selected, that is the beauty of THP.

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?51841-The-2014-THP-Events-Calendar

Just wrapped up one contest for the Gauntlet entries (5 more to come). This is how people entered for this one.

http://www.thehackersparadise.com/f...tlet-w-THP-amp-Callaway-Golf-Join-Team-Rhiona

 

[lightningbolt44]

Interesting topic. Realistically I still question how many players can be fit into a combo that is 17 degree launch with only 1700 backspin.
That said I don't pay for distance. Don't get me wrong if I like two drivers and hit them fairly similar I will pick the longer one every time.
However I went through a time I was chasing numbers on a launch monitor to the point where I had a 3 wood combo that I could hit 275. I used to spend hours each week on a flight scope. I found that none of my successes on a monitor translated to the course with any sort of consistency. I altered my swing and my equipment all in search of numbers. It set me back a ton and while I still think monitors are great I try not to put much into the numbers I see and use on the course real world performance to figure out which clubs I should play.

While I am a huge fan of fitting I am not a huge fan of fitting only off numbers. Far to many variables other than just indoor numbers to consider when selecting clubs.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

 

[evand23mc]

Chicks dig the long ball...although I am surprised that "forgiveness" is not marketed more as it is much tougher to measure than distance

 

[Barberakb]

Everybody always wants more distance off the tee
there are a lot of factors at play especially swing differences and AoA even if you are fit to your current gamer a different driver may yield better results

Definitely not true. I honestly am happy with the distance I get off the tee.
I don't want or need anymore.
What I do want is better accuracy/forgiveness on mishits.

 

[sandiegonative]

JB,

On the way home, I heard Dan Patrick do his Big Bertha spot. He talked about "You Can't Argue With Physics", #BerthasBack, and Sir Issac Newton/Apple. That's the marketing I associate with the 2014 Big Bertha Line. All that #KingsofDistance, #HammerPatch, #BombPatch, and #LongerFromEverywhere marketing, right or wrong immediately makes me think of the X2-Hot line.

Thanks for the links about the THP events.

 

[JB]

JB,

On the way home, I heard Dan Patrick do his Big Bertha spot. He talked about "You Can't Argue With Physics", #BerthasBack, and Sir Issac Newton/Apple. That's the marketing I associate with the 2014 Big Bertha Line. All that #KingsofDistance, #HammerPatch, #BombPatch, and #LongerFromEverywhere marketing, right or wrong immediately makes me think of the X2-Hot line.

Thanks for the links about the THP events.

Without question they have done a great job of doing the #BerthasBack aspect, but truthfully, thats not marketing much other than the brand overall. It shows you how powerful the Big Bertha name is/was. To give you an example, the #KingsofDistance events are purely about distance and purely about Callaway drivers. No real separation between the Xhot and Bertha families.

A nice look at the Bertha family and hammer patch together.

 

[sandiegonative]

Interesting topic. Realistically I still question how many players can be fit into a combo that is 17 degree launch with only 1700 backspin.
That said I don't pay for distance. Don't get me wrong if I like two drivers and hit them fairly similar I will pick the longer one every time.
However I went through a time I was chasing numbers on a launch monitor to the point where I had a 3 wood combo that I could hit 275. I used to spend hours each week on a flight scope. I found that none of my successes on a monitor translated to the course with any sort of consistency. I altered my swing and my equipment all in search of numbers. It set me back a ton and while I still think monitors are great I try not to put much into the numbers I see and use on the course real world performance to figure out which clubs I should play.

While I am a huge fan of fitting I am not a huge fan of fitting only off numbers. Far to many variables other than just indoor numbers to consider when selecting clubs.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

I think the whole 17/1700 is nothing more then wishful thinking. It is genius marketing, "holy grail" of launch conditions. It immediately makes golfers think, "WOW how to I get there". Personally, I have never been a fan of TM's marketing. I find it insulting to my intelligence. For whatever reason, I enjoy Callaway's marketing. I relate to what they are saying and enjoy all the technology talk (Gravity Core is technology where ASP was not) and the hashtags (i.e. #Ridonkulong).

Make sense to me. If the monitor results don't translate to the golf course something needs to change regardless of what the numbers say.

 

[sandiegonative]

Without question they have done a great job of doing the #BerthasBack aspect, but truthfully, thats not marketing much other than the brand overall. It shows you how powerful the Big Bertha name is/was. To give you an example, the #KingsofDistance events are purely about distance and purely about Callaway drivers. No real separation between the Xhot and Bertha families.

A nice look at the Bertha family and hammer patch together.

Sweet video!!!

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong or vice versa. But when I step back, I think you're actually right?!?! I don't know.

For me, I've just made that association. Big Bertha equals sophistication, technology, gravity core, APW... that slick midnight blue with classic red... SO SEXY :call-me:

Whereas, X-Hot/X2-Hot was all about distance. Starting with the #XBomb patch and moving to the #XHammer... DISTANCE DISTANCE AND MORE DISTANCE :devil:

Anyway you flip it, I'm a Callaway Golf Fan 4-Life!!! With that said, that doesn't make me a TM, Titleist, or PING Hater either. I think that's a problem on the "other site". I've yet to see that here.

 

[JB]

The above made me chuckle and what THP is all about. Its okay to think any way you want. Conversation is good and knowledge is power. #Prosumer

 

[-CRW-]

I'm willing to pay an unlimited amount - but in very small increments, spread out over a very long time!

 

[roswellj]

The more I play the more I'm willing to actually sacrifice distance in the name of accuracy. When I first started playing I would buy a new driver/fairway/hybrid every other month in the pursuit of distance. In the last 12 months or so I have dropped quite a lot of distance in the pursuit of accuracy and my scores are steadily getting lower. I was loving the Taylormade brand a few years ago with the burners and RBZ's but everything is slowly migrating away from that. If I can be 10 or even 20% shorter in my drive but have the confidence that I will hit the fairway 90% of the time then I will buy that club. Because I know that with the exception of par 5's I then have another club that I've also chosen for accuracy that can get me close to the green from however far I hit that driver.

 

[Blazer]

When I get my new driver I may tell you, if you promise not to laugh.