In need of a little advice about my new set of irons.

[ball striker]

To a certain extent I agree with the sales rep. I'm in sales myself for a major OEM. With the Altitudes your game is never going to improve. Every club in that set is basically a hybrid. I'd go with an older set of Adams A7OS that way you get to hit hybrids and use conventional iroms in your shorter game from 7-SW. I don't agree with his tactics though. I would've approached it in a more professional manner explaining in length the benefits of a set of Asams irons over the lesser set in the limited altitudes that really will stall uour game and you'll plateau and never improve. Just some friendly advice from someone that has been in the businees of selling golf equipment for 13 years now,

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

To a certain extent I agree with the sales rep. I'm in sales myself for a major OEM. With the Altitudes your game is never going to improve. Every club in that set is basically a hybrid. I'd go with an older set of Adams A7OS that way you get to hit hybrids and use conventional iroms in your shorter game from 7-SW. I don't agree with his tactics though. I would've approached it in a more professional manner explaining in length the benefits of a set of Asams irons over the lesser set in the limited altitudes that really will stall uour game and you'll plateau and never improve. Just some friendly advice from someone that has been in the businees of selling golf equipment for 13 years now,

I could not disagree with this more. Just because they're hyrons doesn't mean you don't have to swing them. Sure they bail you out on some mishits, but they don't hit the ball for you. I've seen some really solid players swinging altitudes and playing better golf than the guys with players irons, and shaping shots too.

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[Good.Shepherd]

To a certain extent I agree with the sales rep. I'm in sales myself for a major OEM. With the Altitudes your game is never going to improve. Every club in that set is basically a hybrid. I'd go with an older set of Adams A7OS that way you get to hit hybrids and use conventional iroms in your shorter game from 7-SW. I don't agree with his tactics though. I would've approached it in a more professional manner explaining in length the benefits of a set of Asams irons over the lesser set in the limited altitudes that really will stall uour game and you'll plateau and never improve. Just some friendly advice from someone that has been in the businees of selling golf equipment for 13 years now,

Wow. I could not disagree with this more.

Nothing about one club or another, in and of itself, will "stall" your game. Improvement in golf can come by:

1. Increased confidence
2. Smarter play
3. Better short game
4. Shot shaping
5. More reliable scoring setup
6. Strokes gained
7. A more fluid, reliable, and/or efficient swing
8. Increased scrambling statistics
9. Many other things*

Only some small portion of this has to do with exact limitations in equipment. And in fact, for several of these, the equipment is absolutely moot other than "is it good enough to get your basic 'blow up' tendencies out of the way so you can focus on how you attack the course".

To make someone fearful that they are somehow stalling their progress due to a hybrid over an iron is not only wrong, it's the worst kind of sales.

Some players may need to step up in equipment. They'll know when that time comes. When they're excellent course managers and ball manipulators but they FEEL held back by their equipment. This is not the majority of people, or even the majority of mid to better handicappers.

 

[ball striker]

Wow. I could not disagree with this more.

Nothing about one club or another, in and of itself, will "stall" your game. Improvement in golf can come by:

1. Increased confidence
2. Smarter play
3. Better short game
4. Shot shaping
5. More reliable scoring setup
6. Strokes gained
7. A more fluid, reliable, and/or efficient swing
8. Increased scrambling statistics
9. Many other things*

Only some small portion of this has to do with exact limitations in equipment. And in fact, for several of these, the equipment is absolutely moot other than "is it good enough to get your basic 'blow up' tendencies out of the way so you can focus on how you attack the course".

To make someone fearful that they are somehow stalling their progress due to a hybrid over an iron is not only wrong, it's the worst kind of sales.

Some players may need to step up in equipment. They'll know when that time comes. When they're excellent course managers and ball manipulators but they FEEL held back by their equipment. This is not the majority of people, or even the majority of mid to better handicappers.

You totally misunderstood everything I said in my post. I am a proponent of the hybrid.....but not as a sand wedge for fock sake. The altitudes make old man clubs look like forged muscle backs from the 70s. They fit a very small demographic. Hybrids are an excellent choice from 17 to 30 degrees of loft. Eentually as your iron play progresses with your shorter irons you can then graduate to a set of tight lies 1208s or mayne some cb3s. Then later to some cmbs or cb2s....or some insight forged xtds. You don't want to be stuck knowing how to swi g one way....you'll neve progress and may even regress to an extent. Don't take my advice and twist it into some personal attack. Grow up man

 

[Good.Shepherd]

You totally misunderstood everything I said in my post. I am a proponent of the hybrid.....but not as a sand wedge for fock sake. The altitudes make old man clubs look like forged muscle backs from the 70s. They fit a very small demographic. Hybrids are an excellent choice from 17 to 30 degrees of loft. Eentually as your iron play progresses with your shorter irons you can then graduate to a set of tight lies 1208s or mayne some cb3s. Then later to some cmbs or cb2s....or some insight forged xtds. You don't want to be stuck knowing how to swi g one way....you'll neve progress and may even regress to an extent. Don't take my advice and twist it into some personal attack. Grow up man

I didn't take any personal attack. I just firmly disagree with your comments as you stated them. And I still do. Just as someone else did immediately after you posted as well. I disagree with them EMPHATICALLY. Your direct quote:

"that really will stall uour game and you'll plateau and never improve."

I cannot disagree with this comment more. And I doubt I'm alone.

I'm not unfriendly about it. Hell, meet me here in Denver and I'll buy you the first beer. I just don't agree.

 

[blugold]

To a certain extent I agree with the sales rep. I'm in sales myself for a major OEM. With the Altitudes your game is never going to improve. Every club in that set is basically a hybrid. I'd go with an older set of Adams A7OS that way you get to hit hybrids and use conventional iroms in your shorter game from 7-SW. I don't agree with his tactics though. I would've approached it in a more professional manner explaining in length the benefits of a set of Asams irons over the lesser set in the limited altitudes that really will stall uour game and you'll plateau and never improve. Just some friendly advice from someone that has been in the businees of selling golf equipment for 13 years now,

Doesn't score determine how much you have improved ? Not the irons you play.

 

[baldguy]

OP: the only thing you'll "grow out of" is any pre-conceived notions you may (or may not) have on what type of irons a given handicap should be playing. I agree with other posters here - get what you hit well, what fits your eye, and what fits your budget. The idea that your game will not improve with altitudes is ludicrous. 6 months from now the main improvements you're going to be seeing will very likely be with your short game. Technique, not the club you're using, will be what advances your game. Practice, not purchases.

Source: I've been dropping my handicap steadily over the last 6 months, using the exact same set of "SGI" irons. Lots of others here have, too. Even more players right here on these forums are far beter golfers than myself, yet are also playing clubs in the same category.

 

[ball striker]

Doesn't score determine how much you have improved ? Not the irons you play.

Not at all. I'd rather have a phenominal day with great ball striking and missing a few putts and 3 putting but hitting girs than have a slightly better scoring day from an an ugly round of scrambling. That means you only have to fix a few problems. To me, ball striking and great iron play is what golf is all about. Again my opinion only. If you disagree please don't jump down my throat. Thanks

 

[blugold]

Not at all. I'd rather have a phenominal day with great ball striking and missing a few putts and 3 putting but hitting girs than have a slightly better scoring day from an an ugly round of scrambling. That means you only have to fix a few problems. To me, ball striking and great iron play is what golf is all about. Again my opinion only. If you disagree please don't jump down my throat. Thanks

I'm not jumping down your throat. I promise. I am having a discussion.

I don't now or ever have bought into the idea that good golfers have to play thin irons or that thin iron players are better golfers.

My perspective is this, if big ole SGI clubs allow a person to shoot low scores and keeps them coming back to the course, then it doesn't matter how good of a ball striker they are.

 

[Philly Golf Guy]

I think you're getting great advice from these posts. As you spend more time here, you'll find very good players gaming Altitudes and Baffler XL's and are finding lower scores with them. I don't think I've ever seen a situation where clubs are holding someone back, so I wouldn't worry about that. My advice is to buy the set of clubs you hit the best and feel the most confident with. I would not buy a set that you'll have to chase to hit well; that essentially leads to a season of frustration and a new set of irons in no time.

And if you still have some stigma in playing SGI irons for whatever reason, there are literally 20 sets I would game before suggesting the AP2's and 825 Pro's to a high handicapper. Incidentally, those two sets are close to $1k each while Altitudes are less, right? Is there some other motivation this manager may have?


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[bbuonic81]

To a certain extent I agree with the sales rep. I'm in sales myself for a major OEM. With the Altitudes your game is never going to improve. Every club in that set is basically a hybrid. I'd go with an older set of Adams A7OS that way you get to hit hybrids and use conventional iroms in your shorter game from 7-SW. I don't agree with his tactics though. I would've approached it in a more professional manner explaining in length the benefits of a set of Asams irons over the lesser set in the limited altitudes that really will stall uour game and you'll plateau and never improve. Just some friendly advice from someone that has been in the businees of selling golf equipment for 13 years now,

You totally misunderstood everything I said in my post. I am a proponent of the hybrid.....but not as a sand wedge for fock sake. The altitudes [any hybrid iron set] make old man clubs look like forged muscle backs from the 70s. They fit a very small demographic [no]. Hybrids are an excellent choice from 17 to 30 degrees of loft. Eentually as your iron play progresses with your shorter irons you can then graduate to a set of tight lies 1208s or mayne some cb3s [588 MTs or 588 TTs]. Then later to some cmbs or cb2s [588 CBs]....or some insight forged xtds [588 MBs]. You don't want to be stuck knowing how to swi g one way....you'll neve progress and may even regress to an extent. Don't take my advice and twist it into some personal attack. Grow up man

Just an Adams' sales pitch (not that Adams doesn't also make great clubs). We live in a world where almost every OEM has some sort of irons that "fit" every skill level - anyone can create a blended set if they want it.

 

[Hawk]

Had to use the a120S set. Alititudes on top.

I just don't understand how you shill one and dismiss the other. In reality, I liked the Idea Hybrid Irons more than I like the Altitudes, but they are basically they same thing - except you are sort of stuck with true hybrids in the Idea set vs the hybrid-iron look of the other.

Then we come to the part where a club like this could cause regression of one's game, which is completely false. Not just opinion there, as I've seen indexes close to or as low as ball striker play iron sets like this and play them well for extended periods of time. OP is a 25 index who probably is able to play a time or two a week at most and maybe get one or two practice sessions in. It takes time, instruction, and practice to become a great ball striker and the reality is that most do not have that ability.

 

[Hawk]

And that isn't 'jumping down your throat'. We are obligated to provide good advice, so I had to say it.

 

[inthehole]

After deciding to get a new set of irons I went to the nearest golf store to try out some people suggestions from here. After talking to a very helpful guy he tells me to try the 588 altitudes and the Benross hot 2's. He then hands me over to his manager who tells me that I should get less of a beginners set as I will out grow it with 6 months as I am a 25 handicap. He then got me to try some Titelist AP2’s and some Mizuno jpx 825 pro irons which I did not hit anywhere near as well but was told I would grow into them, is this true?
Thank you every one for all the help.

I was in exactly your shoes - thought I was ready for the smaller forged head game improvement irons - bought a set of Adams CB3's last year - struggled with them something awful. I'm so much happier with the JPX825's - I still struggle to hit them consistently, but am doing far better than the clubs I wasn't ready for. Took a major loss in this learning exercise

 

[AoxomxoA]

I started last year with a set of Adams Tech V4 hybrids, a SGI club set (which I've seen go by in the Deal thread at KILLER LOW prices), and while I've dropped my handicap almost 5 strokes in that period, I do not, even remotely, feel like I've outgrown them. I really like them, I feel no fear hitting every club, and I'm not sure I would feel that way about a conventional 4 iron.

 

[Milwaukeeguy]

Not at all. I'd rather have a phenominal day with great ball striking and missing a few putts and 3 putting but hitting girs than have a slightly better scoring day from an an ugly round of scrambling. That means you only have to fix a few problems. To me, ball striking and great iron play is what golf is all about. Again my opinion only. If you disagree please don't jump down my throat. Thanks

I actually agree, but that's why I'd suggest that the OP get something that will help his game the most. That way, he will hit more GIR, and have more fun.

 

[tahoebum]

I have seen super game improvement hold a player back, but it is very rare. My friend and co-worker, who was a 19 handicap at the time, got rid of his super game improvement clubs last year and switched to a forged cavity back with no offset. He is the rare 19 handicapper who has a very full shoulder turn, inside out swing path, and compresses the ball well. His ballooning hooks went away almost immediately after making the switch and his index dropped to a 14 within a month.

 

[ryebread]

Hawk hit the nail on the head with his last post. I personally don't see how one could slam Altitudes and promote the OS/Idea series. The 9 iron down in the Altitudes are very similar to any other large SGI iron, just with an enclosed cavity. The "hybrid" in the OS series is seemingly larger than that of the Altitudes. The OS series also have more offset than the Altitudes.

I don't think for a second that SGI irons will hold a player back. Time, money and reps are what holds a player back.

If a SGI set makes the game more enjoyable, then maybe the player is more apt to spend more time and money getting more reps. If a player is out there trying with a set that doesn't help, and that gets poorer results, he'll just get discouraged and quit.

 

[adamw238]

I'm a big fan of play whatever you feel makes you play the best. If you need a club to look pretty to hit it well, then go that route (that's me). If you want a more practical approach and use clubs that offer you the most forgiveness possible, then go that route. To that point, I always feel it's the wizard, not the wand who makes the shots. It's good to take different perspectives and ideas into your decision making process, but at the end of the day you're the ones playing the clubs, not them.

Personally, I've never had game improvement clubs hold me back. If anything they give me more confidence over the ball and don't force me to make a "perfect" swing every time. Look at our very own JB. He plays or played Altitudes and he's a single digit player. Handicap should never dictate the irons you play. I've played MP59s when I was an 18 andI got down to a 12.4, but that had nothing to do with the irons. I was taking lessons and my swing got better. I've played the Rocketbladez and Rocketbladez tour and played the same golf with both. Even PGA Tour players use game improvement irons because they feel that's what gives them the best chance to shoot low.

No club is going to hold you back. You may eventually grow out of a set when your game gets to a point that you feel you need to start working the ball more, but the average golfer really doesn't need all of that. Hawk and I had a discussion in another thread about combo sets and having blades at the bottom of your set. I liked to do it because I like my scoring irons to look and feel the same as my wedges. But Hawk made a great point that kind of stopped me dead in my tracks. "How ofter are you going to work the ball with your 9i or PW." And he's right. As an above average amateur, I rarely need to work the ball left or right with a wedge. When he said that, it totally changed my approach to setting up my bag for the the Morgan Cup. I went from Bio Cell 4-6 and BC + 7-P, to Bio Cell through the bag. And my fitting confirmed it. I just hit the Bio Cells better than the plus. And what Hawk confirmed was that if a player puts their ego aside and plays what actually fits their game, they will have much better results. And that goes for most golfers.

Bottom line, go hit a bunch of clubs that you've had your eye on. Don't worry about what handicap range they fit into. If they feel good and give you the best results, go with it and don't look back. And no game or super game improvement club will hold you back. You may feel the need to "upgrade" eventually, but remember that the wizard is the one casting the spells, the wand is just doing what it's told. Some wands are a bit more forgiving though and forgiveness is your friend.

Just my opinion.

I hope you do find something that you really like and stick with it. Golf's a fun game when your hitting great shots.

 

[Milwaukeeguy]

I have seen super game improvement hold a player back, but it is very rare. My friend and co-worker, who was a 19 handicap at the time, got rid of his super game improvement clubs last year and switched to a forged cavity back with no offset. He is the rare 19 handicapper who has a very full shoulder turn, inside out swing path, and compresses the ball well. His ballooning hooks went away almost immediately after making the switch and his index dropped to a 14 within a month.

That's actually that journey I'm on now.

I'm a 13 handicap, but with the help of some lessons this spring, I've increased my swing speed and launch angle.

I'm stepping away from my SGI Regular flex into something a little smaller in Stiff flex (cleveland TT). My goal is to get to a 9 handicap.

Anyways, I'm stepping up to different clubs for a specific reason, my ball flight was ballooning with my 10 year old SGI irons (lots of offset too). My instructor said it wouldn't kill my game, but ideally my ball flight should be a little lower.

So, yes, your equipment may evolve as you play. But, the idea that somebody is going to magically "outgrow" a specific style or design of club is silly.

By that theory, I should get Xstiff shafts so I can grow into them and learn to swing harder.

Get what fits you now, if you play a ton, and get a lot better, then there might be something else out there that fits your needs a little better.

 

[GolfFest]

I agree with the concept of growing out of a set of irons a lot more than growing into a set of irons. As you play more, practice, take lessons and improve it seems likely that there will be a set out there that is a better fit than your starter set. However the odds that a set you are supposed to grow into being the perfect fit aren't great.

 

[ball striker]

Had to use the a120S set. Alititudes on top.

I just don't understand how you shill one and dismiss the other. In reality, I liked the Idea Hybrid Irons more than I like the Altitudes, but they are basically they same thing - except you are sort of stuck with true hybrids in the Idea set vs the hybrid-iron look of the other.

Then we come to the part where a club like this could cause regression of one's game, which is completely false. Not just opinion there, as I've seen indexes close to or as low as ball striker play iron sets like this and play them well for extended periods of time. OP is a 25 index who probably is able to play a time or two a week at most and maybe get one or two practice sessions in. It takes time, instruction, and practice to become a great ball striker and the reality is that most do not have that ability.

This is a poor comparison. If you walk into a golf shop and compare the 2 you would notice clubs 7-GW on the 12OS look more like a conventional iron. The soles on the altitudes are way thicker. Not even close. Just saying.

 

[Mulligan9111]

This is a poor comparison. If you walk into a golf shop and compare the 2 you would notice clubs 7-GW on the 12OS look more like a conventional iron. The soles on the altitudes are way thicker. Not even close. Just saying.

So the pictures are lying?

Let me add that I have seen both sets in person as well, and there is not that much of a difference (in my opinion) until you get to the 4,5,6 irons which are actually full on hybrids in the Adams set.

 

[tequila4kapp]

This is a poor comparison. If you walk into a golf shop and compare the 2 you would notice clubs 7-GW on the 12OS look more like a conventional iron. The soles on the altitudes are way thicker. Not even close. Just saying.

Coming back to the original question / point... even if what you are saying is true, how does the look of a few irons and a wider sole inhibit the development of a golfer? Sorry, but I don't see it. And even if it were true it seems like it would happen for players who are substantially lower index players than the OP (or myself), meaning unless the OP has meteoric advancement in his game the notion that he would outgrow the clubs in a matter of months is wrong.

 

[tahoebum]

That's actually that journey I'm on now.

I'm a 13 handicap, but with the help of some lessons this spring, I've increased my swing speed and launch angle.

I'm stepping away from my SGI Regular flex into something a little smaller in Stiff flex (cleveland TT). My goal is to get to a 9 handicap.

Anyways, I'm stepping up to different clubs for a specific reason, my ball flight was ballooning with my 10 year old SGI irons (lots of offset too). My instructor said it wouldn't kill my game, but ideally my ball flight should be a little lower.

So, yes, your equipment may evolve as you play. But, the idea that somebody is going to magically "outgrow" a specific style or design of club is silly.

By that theory, I should get Xstiff shafts so I can grow into them and learn to swing harder.

Get what fits you now, if you play a ton, and get a lot better, then there might be something else out there that fits your needs a little better.

You are right, get what fits your game now, and celebrate when your game improves enough that you need to replace them. Used irons are so inexpensive that it is very easy to upgrade to a new set these days.