Course Rating and Slope

[salisboss]

How do courses come up with slope and rating? I played Crystal Springs yesterday in Hamburg, NJ and from the whites it was 69/123 at 5862. The blacks are 6816 73.5/139. I have played a few other courses with similar or higher ratings and this was way harder. The distance wasn't hard at all but it played long due to moguls everywhere and elevation changes. It also had odd green that were very difficult to hold and unless you played the hole in a zigzag pattern had about 10 yards of depth or be 50 plus feet away.

 

[blugold]

I believe the USGA is responsible for setting the rating and slope every 10 years.

 

[Golf 'N Gator]

I believe the USGA is responsible for setting the rating and slope every 10 years.

Normally done by a course rating team from the USGA.

 

[tahoebum]

Something to keep in mind is slope rating is the relative difficulty of the course for a non-scratch or bogey golfer. Course rating is the USGA's evaluation of how difficult a course plays for a scratch golfer under normal weather and course conditions.

 

[salisboss]

This is why I am surprised at the slope. I play a course frequently that is 72/126 at 6400 from the whites and although it is longer, I fellt the green were larger, flatter and the fairways flatter and much easier to get a single sloped lie off of. Crystal yesterday was unlike anything I have seen. The holes were straight but had very small landing areas and even in the fairways bad lies were had. Then greens that were hard to hit and hold.

 

[ArmyGolf]

A high rated home course that I usually play well is the secret to my single digit cap.
Every once in a while I stumble into a course that I feel is rated way off one way or the other but its probably just because I didn't know the course and got lucky or managed it very poorly.

 

[salisboss]

A high rated home course that I usually play well is the secret to my single digit cap.
Every once in a while I stumble into a course that I feel is rated way off one way or the other but its probably just because I didn't know the course and got lucky or managed it very poorly.

I actually played well at this seemingly underrated course. I hit a bunch of fairways and didn't waste any shots (only 1 fat chunk - usually good for 4 or 5). It was just exhausting to play.

 

[Hawk]

Tons of flaws in the system in my opinion. There are courses I play regularly that are way off (both too high and too low) based on my experiences. Sort of ruins the integrity of the index system in my mind.

 

[Miller Time]

As I've finally started keeping an official HDCP, I've began to notice rating and slope. Still don't completely understand it, but from the courses I've played they usually live up to their numbers.

 

[salisboss]

Tons of flaws in the system in my opinion. There are courses I play regularly that are way off (both too high and too low) based on my experiences. Sort of ruins the integrity of the index system in my mind.

I agree. I feel my 94 at this course should count for more than a 96 or something at some other hgiher rated courses but it won't even though this score took a ton more work and concentration. One of the things that I think probably gets a higher rating is more length. However length only gets you so far. This course at 5800 had a lot of hidden length with elevation changes and forced layups and small greens.

 

[Hawk]

I agree. I feel my 94 at this course should count for more than a 96 or something at some other hgiher rated courses but it won't even though this score took a ton more work and concentration. One of the things that I think probably gets a higher rating is more length. However length only gets you so far. This course at 5800 had a lot of hidden length with elevation changes and forced layups and small greens.

I just don't get it. Way too subjective and inconsistent.

My old club played to a slope of 136 or 138 and finished with a bland par 3. They ended up redoing the course, adding a very difficult par three in another spot, then adding an uphill 550 yard par 5 finisher, which in my opinion really made the course more difficult. Instead, they dropped the slope to 127. Made no sense at all.

 

[tequila4kapp]

Here is a bunch of official info on how the course ratings are derived:
http://www.usga.org/handicapping/course_ratings/ratings_primer/Course-Rating-Primer/

 

[salisboss]

I just don't get it. Way too subjective and inconsistent.

My old club played to a slope of 136 or 138 and finished with a bland par 3. They ended up redoing the course, adding a very difficult par three in another spot, then adding an uphill 550 yard par 5 finisher, which in my opinion really made the course more difficult. Instead, they dropped the slope to 127. Made no sense at all.

I get that course rating has to be a tough job but it seems like USGA could use to change the system. Especially when it directly feeds into its endorsed player evaluation system.

 

[Hawk]

I get that course rating has to be a tough job but it seems like USGA could use to change the system. Especially when it directly feeds into its endorsed player evaluation system.

Exactly. In my mind it needs to be looked at, but I doubt it will be. Take some subjectivity and inconsistency out of it.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I get that course rating has to be a tough job but it seems like USGA could use to change the system. Especially when it directly feeds into its endorsed player evaluation system.

The linked article leads me to the conclusion the system is what I might call subjectively objective. There are set criteria and set scoring values, but humans have to assess and rate. That means the system can't be perfect.

 

[drp3434]

The linked article leads me to the conclusion the system is what I might call subjectively objective. There are set criteria and set scoring values, but humans have to assess and rate. That means the system can't be perfect.

That's the tough part. Unless you some how have the same people rating each course it's going to be messed up. But even courses in the same area can be messed up in the opposite direction; too high or low like Hawk said. You'd think the same people would cover a certain sized area.

Another tough part though is that different courses can play to different strengths; tee game vs short game, draws vs fades, etc. A course could play totally different to two people who have the same handicap.

 

[Mystery Meat]

The slope and rating is a bunch of bs .. IMO . I still believe alot of big time courses try getting the highest rating they can to attract more play $ . I think the USGA is given money under the table to make this happen . I have played high rated courses and shot even par with no problems . On the other hand , I played courses with very low ratings that are super super tricky and super tough if you miss in the wrong spot . All bs from the usga .. Vegas courses are big on these over ratings ..all about having that " hardest course in the area .. Come play me" persona

bs .. Complete bs .. Why when you play golf should be straight up .. No handicap .. Low score wins

 

[tequila4kapp]

Variability is inherent in the system...because we are all different. They assess obstacles based on how they affect the average bogey golfer (for slope). We all have wonderfully different ways of screwing things up (hell, I have different and exciting ways of doing it based on the day of the week).

 

[captaincaution]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the rating, and the associated slope are a measure of one's scoring potential for the average of your best 10 of 20 rounds. So, if you only play a course from time to time, it can be really hard to gauge if the rating and slope are accurate.

 

[deuce]

Why when you play golf should be straight up .. No handicap .. Low score wins

That works great for the pro's, and you can certainly play that way if you want to. No one forces you to partake of handicapped events, or play with friends using a handicap system.

For the rest of us, it evens out the playing field a bit and adds a bit of challenge for all involved. If I am playing with a low handicapper, I start the round feeling that I actually have a chance to pull the upset if I shoot lights out, or if he/she has an off day. It adds a fun element to it.