Golfers Tracked by GPS to Speed Play as Rounds Near 4.5 Hours

[wvmtnbkr]

The GPS tracking idea is neat, but USGA could/should follow up with some additional demographic stats. Also, how will GPS tracking provide useful information if you are waiting on a (non-tracked) group of slower players in front of you? My personal opinion is that golf is "dying" for several reasons:

1. Cost - Be it equipment, apparel, green fees, no local course, etc; golf isn't cheap to play. What is the "average" cost for a round? How far did the player travel to get to the course? Group it by state or region or city, but I think answering these questions would provide some illumination on why people don't spontaneously take up golf and how to improve participation, at least regionally.

2. Aging Population - Fewer people are playing simply because many members of the demographic "bubble" in the early 00's no longer play or are no longer here to play. No easy fix for that one. What is the "average" age for golfers playing a round on a typical weekday/weekend?

3. No mentors - My dad doesn't play golf (I'm 39); I got into playing with co-workers several years ago and now run our company league. How many current players offer to take a neighbor or co-worker along? As was mentioned earlier, it isn't as easy as letting someone borrow a rod/reel or a shotgun and taking them out. Some courses have loaner equipment, but many don't and if they do it may be in rough shape.

4. "Snob Factor" and that golf is an "Old-Man Game" - Perception among non-golfers that most golfers are rich douches, like the members of Bushwood Country Club. Far from the truth, but the perception is there and can be hard to overcome.

The solution? I think additional stats can help better define the problem, but only to a point. USGA knows they are facing a huge demographic problem, and determining how fast (or slow) an "average" round takes to play won't solve it. It becomes the responsiblity of players to "save" the sport. We need to be more approachable about sharing our love for the game and be willing to invite non-golfers along with us. Courses could actively encourage inexperienced golfers to come out periodically for special events, perhaps just to play 9 at a reduced cost to "get their feet wet"; something to expose them to the sport and provide a good experience that might encourage them to return.

Just a few thoughts...

Stephen

 

[iSukGolf]

Stephen a good perspective! And welcome THP!

 

[BallJazz]

I just don't see any specific details being taken from the personal gps.

Really? You don't see the benefit of seeing where every single player on an entire course is at any given time, where they are mulling about, where they are taking their shots, whom they're hitting into, etc?

If you can't make the leap, trust the data scientists setting up the study that it will provide more value.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tadashi70]

Really? You don't see the benefit of seeing where every single player on an entire course is at any given time, where they are mulling about, where they are taking their shots, whom they're hitting into, etc?

If you can't make the leap, trust the data scientists setting up the study that it will provide more value.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The data doesn't tell you what the golfer was doing. It shows their location on the course. They could be chatting, using the bathroom, looking for golf balls, taking a stroll. There are any number of things that could be going on that the gps will never tell the scientist.

I don't need to take a leap as I'm quite sure the slow play issue could have fixed with spending $150k on pocket gps.

 

[JB]

The data doesn't tell you what the golfer was doing. It shows their location on the course. They could be chatting, using the bathroom, looking for golf balls, taking a stroll. There are any number of things that could be going on that the gps will never tell the scientist.

I don't need to take a leap as I'm quite sure the slow play issue could have fixed with spending $150k on pocket gps.

This is very true. The data is meaningless because courses continue to allow it.

I'm all for collection for awareness however....but the problem is nobody thinks they are slow. They are all slow.

 

[BallJazz]

I don't need to take a leap as I'm quite sure the slow play issue could have fixed with spending $150k on pocket gps.

Exactly as I suspected. You don't want an answer; you want support for your ignorance. The culture of scientific skepticism today is sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JB]

Exactly as I suspected. You don't want an answer; you want support for your ignorance. The culture of scientific skepticism today is sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure that is either fair or accurate.

 

[Tadashi70]

Exactly as I suspected. You don't want an answer; you want support for your ignorance. The culture of scientific skepticism today is sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where did I say I didn't want answers. And as for my ignorance, I have held every position in the golf industry at everything from private to public. I have a pretty good grasp in what causes slow play and I have my ideas on how to fix it.

The USGA is not made up of scientist but an old guard that reacts to issue instead of being proactive. Courses and people know what causes and why we have slow play but choose not to address the issues.

Let's say some how the data gleaned from this research shows that most golfers spend their time in the right rough. What will they do with that data. Or they find out that player B spends a great deal of time all over the course. What will that data provide in a way of a fix?

 

[Evok]

I also don't see how this data will fix things. Don't we already know people are slow? Isn't that why we have all these pace of play campaigns haha like others said, the problem is people don't think they're slow or frankly just don't care. A lot of these courses don't enforce pace enough so gps data telling us that people are standing in the right rough with their fingers in their bumski (which we can see with our eyes anyways) does what?

 

[Pkielwa]

Golfers Tracked by GPS to Speed Play as Rounds Near 4.5 Hours

I've always thought a "card" system would help- pass a test on etiquette and rules, get a card, but that would deter new people playing..

I will speak about my courses here in my town and what I see. These courses are, pretty much, goat ranches. One need not be in "golf attire" to play. So, there are a lot of casual golfers out there.

There isn't a starter at any location, and only one course has a "ranger". I quoted that as he is playing once out of view of the clubhouse! The staffs inside never pair anyone up during peak times either, this leading to twosomes playing behind fivesomes and SIXsomes. Then we get fivesomes of walkers between cart groups, etc. Then we get fivesomes of walkers, who are regulars, who NEVER let anyone play through- I've walked/driven to the next hole with these guys!!! Same guys... Always!

It's almost as though my town is behind the times, or clueless, as to how to run a course! Back home in SE Michigan, starters, rangers, rules for twosomes or less, etc, were the norm. Down here, no one has a clue.

So, take all of these factors into play... Mis-management of courses and golfers are to blame for pace of play too. "Pros" and course staffs need to set things up to aid this problem as well.

Poorly skilled golfers need more rounds to get better. I just wish there were "par 3" courses for them to "learn on" before going out to play the full-size courses.

Anyway, my town could do better just at the management level to help pace here...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BallJazz]

Tadashi - First, I apologize for getting aggressive. I should have waiting 10 min to reply.

It's about using data in aggregate. This is why Big Data is such a buzz word today. Patterns emerge that provide a basis for further exploration. Answers aren't easy to come by. I respect your opinion of the USGA, but the fact that this study exists suggests that things are changing. I mentioned earlier that this is surely not the only effort being made. It's a good sign that they are using new methods and trying new things to find a solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shankosaurus]

Exactly as I suspected. You don't want an answer; you want support for your ignorance. The culture of scientific skepticism today is sad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow. I have to admit, it takes nerve to come in here and trash people like this.

I abhor the scientific skepticism as much as you do, but that doesn't mean that it is a valid study just because someone says it is. Collecting raw data is fine, but unless one can put it in a relative context, it means nothing. And I don't see how anyone can put a proper context around this data without understanding why they are where they are.

Scientific skepticism is hurting our society, no doubt. But accepting conclusions without reasonable examination is a prime cause of scientific skepticism.

 

[Tadashi70]

Tadashi - First, I apologize for getting aggressive. I should have waiting 10 min to reply.

It's about using data in aggregate. This is why Big Data is such a buzz word today. Patterns emerge that provide a basis for further exploration. Answers aren't easy to come by. I respect your opinion of the USGA, but the fact that this study exists suggests that things are changing. I mentioned earlier that this is surely not the only effort being made. It's a good sign that they are using new methods and trying new things to find a solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No apology needed, you feel strongly about your beliefs and that's good. I don't see it as a good start. I see it as a reaction to the constant drumming about slow play on the internet. The USGA as a governing body should have addressed this years ago. But they are just that, a governing body that can not dictate what each course does. So since courses are not under the gun to increase he pace of play, they do nothing for the most part.

If they loose players because of it, they raise rates or squeeze more golfer on the course. I believe there are more slow players than fast since this has been allowed to fester. Because of that I don't see this activity as fruitful. Sometimes you don't need to collect data to fix a problem.

Wow. I have to admit, it takes nerve to come in here and trash people like this.

I abhor the scientific skepticism as much as you do, but that doesn't mean that it is a valid study just because someone says it is. Collecting raw data is fine, but unless one can put it in a relative context, it means nothing. And I don't see how anyone can put a proper context around this data without understanding why they are where they are.

Scientific skepticism is hurting our society, no doubt. But accepting conclusions without reasonable examination is a prime cause of scientific skepticism.

It's really not that big of a deal. Some are passionate about their beliefs and that is fine. I didn't feel trashed or offended. But thank you!

 

[BallJazz]

Collecting raw data is fine, but unless one can put it in a relative context, it means nothing. And I don't see how anyone can put a proper context around this data without understanding why they are where they are.

Bingo. The 'why' is always the hard part. What studies like this are good for is highlighting problematic areas and situations. Once those are identified, theories are developed and further examination follows.

My larger point was that the approach is sound and should be applauded. Welcome, USGA, to the 21st century!

I apologize again to Tadashi and anyone else offended. I meant ignorance of data science, nothing more.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk