WOW NPR fingered capitalism as a culprit in golf's decline - brilliant.
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The game shrinking isn't good any way I look at it. Less players = less money = fewer courses, more crowded courses, worse conditions, less opportunities for careers, etc.
I can't quite get on board with your characterization. It isn't about making every household is a golfing household. It is about dealing with the real numbers which show golf is in decline. Perhaps some of that is the Tiger effect. Regardless, it isn't healthy for anyone when a sport's participation numbers go the wrong way. Discussing causes and solutions is a good thing.
The game shrinking isn't good any way I look at it. Less players = less money = fewer courses, more crowded courses, worse conditions, less opportunities for careers, etc.
Never a bad thing to put minds together for keeping anything from declining and to try to help it grow. I certainly don't want to see golf die off. But we too often compare golf today with the Tiger influx combined with the better economy at the time and then act as if to say "where did we go wrong". As said earlier an influx imo is like a temporary fad just like in anything else. I don't have the facts but I think it safe to assume if we looked at golf prior to the influx and in the better economy we would find very many more still playing today vs then. If we took the influx out of the equation I think the stats would say golf has actually grown even with the bad economy. I am turning 50 this year and was around and old enough before the influx. I can tell you for certain I know very many more people who golf today vs back then. I think the sport is simply on the downside of an influx fad and combined with a bad economy and yet still is larger than it was prior.
We also should remember that with a fad or influx for anything, that thing then grows, and new businesses pop up as anyone who can tries to invest and then cash in. But when the influx goes back the other way those who profited no longer can and then we are left with a void where there was not one before. It almost becomes a victim of its own success. This only adds to make the problem appear worse than it may actually be. There are golf courses, stores, and businesses alike closing up but how much of that is due to the fact that many opened for business due to the influx from Tiger and also a better economy at the time. Had they never opened to take advantage of the influx then we wouldn't be left with the extra competition and this void that they now suffer. Not blaming anyone for that but that's just the way it is.
Yes and no.
The good and bad works both ways. Needs a happy medium between businesses and patrons. Too many or too less of either one = a bad scenario. Fewer courses may result in more crowded courses bringing in more money per and allowing for better conditions per. I understand what you said and in many ways don't disagree. But for example my county opened up 2 courses during the influx back in I believe 99 and 2001. Just like I said above they took advantage of the influx and better economy. But as the influx and economy are dying so are they (I assume) hurting especially during the week. Had these new courses never existed the other 3 that already existed would still be very profitable. Its a victim of its own success. It all works both ways. Too many patrons and that can be bad too. Too many businesses vs patrons and that is also bad. In many ways the industry over did itself. It went on to support an influx that would eventually fade. A happy medium is what it requires but that is very hard to obtain. One way will always chase or fall behind the other. If something becomes more popular than it usually is we take advantage of that and expand on it but we fail to realize that fads and influxes don't last for ever. When they calm down so then does everything associated with it. And we are left with a void as I mention above where we think what went wrong. Just perhaps too many courses and other golf businesses opened up to begin with. That doesnt necessarily mean something went wrong as it still imo more popular than before. Not as popular as when the influx thrived but still very popular.
So, in a few words what is the cause of the decline in golf? Course Architecture or home developers?
I heard a blurb on NPR this morning that made some interesting points about the decline in the popularity of amateurs playing golf. I will try to find a link but it basically states that big name course architects and real estate developers are a big part of the issue. The architects making the courses more difficult and the real estate developers for making the courses longer. For each extra 15 yards of fairway you add 4 houses which could be close to $1 million for the developer in some places. Of course this leads to the longer rounds. What are your thoughts?
There were a bunch of courses put together during the golf upswing (Tiger era). Expectations were that people would take up the sport and be willing to pay outrageous sums of money to play. I think the sparkle is gone, and reality has set in. The golfers that play today, want good courses, well maintained, and reasonably priced. There are very few that meet this criteria where I live.
I heard a blurb on NPR this morning that made some interesting points about the decline in the popularity of amateurs playing golf. I will try to find a link but it basically states that big name course architects and real estate developers are a big part of the issue. The architects making the courses more difficult and the real estate developers for making the courses longer. For each extra 15 yards of fairway you add 4 houses which could be close to $1 million for the developer in some places. Of course this leads to the longer rounds. What are your thoughts?
I wouldn't necessarily say they are responsible, but they haven't helped. Designing courses that sprawl over large areas, weaving through houses with long distances between green and the next tee, contributes to slow play and either prohibits walking or makes it exhausting at best. Add in OB everywhere and you have created the perfect formula for 5 plus hour rounds. Since many dedicated players would almost rather quit than ride, and any experienced player hates slow play, that is a definite problem.
Also building courses which cater to the few players who want extreme difficulty drives away the average golfer. Courses where the middle tees play to a 135 slope or higher is just nuts in my opinion. I've played for 40 years and I still don't like that type of course.
I don't think the problem is longer courses, I think the problem is expecting peopled to pay $50.00-$100.00 per round of golf.
It's simple, lower the barrier to entry and more people will play. Bigger cups and 9 hole rounds aren't solving the core problem. You have a shrinking middle class with less disposable income.
You are lucky to have great county courses to play - but if you don't have a resident card, the courses are expensive. I haven't played Howell or Hominy in years, but remember them as excellent courses. I don't recall much about Shark River. Friends often invite me to play Charleston Springs on weekends. Its two 18 hole layouts are very nice, but as a non-resident I don't want to pay close to $100 to play there.Is much of what I mentioned. Became sort of a victim of its own success.
I am fortunate that my county courses are pretty darn nice. 3 of the 5 are very nice wile one is average to above average and only 1 other that could be better. I don't know why the one seems to be the black sheep of the family since all is own and run by the same county. :confused2:. But over all I think we have it pretty good condition wise though I do wish it were cheaper but who doesn't.
IMO, this is the only reason for a golf decline. Golf is hard. 15 years ago people who never played before got caught up in Tigermania and wanted to give it a try. After spending hundreds or thousands of dollars trying to play like Tiger, they realized they couldn't, then didn't or couldn't take the necessary strides to improve, and simply gave it up or at the least scaled way back.I have yet to go to a golf course that didn't have multiple sets of tees for every range of golfer. I also have yet to play a course that is tough from the forward tees. I think golf is on a decline because people don't put the time in to get lessons or play the right tees. Frustration sets in and they leave the game.
You are lucky to have great county courses to play - but if you don't have a resident card, the courses are expensive. I haven't played Howell or Hominy in years, but remember them as excellent courses. I don't recall much about Shark River. Friends often invite me to play Charleston Springs on weekends. Its two 18 hole layouts are very nice, but as a non-resident I don't want to pay close to $100 to play there.
We had this discussion last year and I'll repeat that a lot of these newer, more spread out, development type courses are an absolute nightmare to walk at since some of the tee boxes are hundreds of yards of scorching concrete apart. Paired with humongous multi-tiered greens running at 13 can you see any rounds finishing in under 5 hrs regardless of tee choice? Walk or ride, I always enjoy playing the older muni styled courses and I've seen a lot of them especially getting on top of their maintenance and especially the greens and getting them back in shape.
In terms of golf "growing" remember (for example) that Las Vegas has more millenials going there to go "dancing" at stupid overpriced nightclubs and blowing $18 on Grey Goose cosmos - then playing golf now. The 20 somethings (besides the THPer types here obviously) would rather tweet, facebook, take pictures of their lunch to twit around, and go clubbing and hang out than play golf.
I say that as a grumpy mid 40 something though! When my rat pack of friends all went to LV our priorities were to #1, play golf, #2 gamble, 3# grub, 4# drink/strip clubs, #5 pool etc. IF someone mentioned that some hot dj was at a club we would laugh them out of town.
We had this discussion last year and I'll repeat that a lot of these newer, more spread out, development type courses are an absolute nightmare to walk at since some of the tee boxes are hundreds of yards of scorching concrete apart. Paired with humongous multi-tiered greens running at 13 can you see any rounds finishing in under 5 hrs regardless of tee choice? Walk or ride, I always enjoy playing the older muni styled courses and I've seen a lot of them especially getting on top of their maintenance and especially the greens and getting them back in shape.
In terms of golf "growing" remember (for example) that Las Vegas has more millenials going there to go "dancing" at stupid overpriced nightclubs and blowing $18 on Grey Goose cosmos - then playing golf now. The 20 somethings (besides the THPer types here obviously) would rather tweet, facebook, take pictures of their lunch to twit around, and go clubbing and hang out than play golf.
I say that as a grumpy mid 40 something though! When my rat pack of friends all went to LV our priorities were to #1, play golf, #2 gamble, 3# grub, 4# drink/strip clubs, #5 pool etc. IF someone mentioned that some hot dj was at a club we would laugh them out of town.
I still think pace of play is more of a deterrent for people already playing golf and hitting the frustration point not necessarily new players picking it up.
Keyser makes a valid distinction. The reasons why a golfer leaves the game are different than the reasons why young people don't bother to take it up, and they're different still from the carping complaints of veteran golfers who aren't going anywhere.
By virtue of the fact that we are all typing here, we are in the last category, so our perspectives are skewed. Slow play grumbles don't scare away newbies so much as other factors. Quite often the newbies are the source of slow play, not the victims of it. Perhaps what needs to be done is not ask a bunch of golf bloggers what ticks them off, but poll a bunch of teens on the reasons why they don't play.