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Why isn't Kaymer Lofting up w/ SLDR

SuperStroke
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tpluff said:
I'm genuinely curious if you have a legitimate source for this information.
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Most OEMS do it to some degree but I think it is overstated that it is to cure the golfers ego. I think that is part of it but I think the real reason is manufacturing specs. The less precise they are the cheaper the club will be to produce. If they needed every 8.5 head to be exactly 8.5 do you know how many heads they would end up throwing out?
 
lightningbolt44 said:
Most OEMS do it to some degree but I think it is overstated that it is to cure the golfers ego. I think that is part of it but I think the real reason is manufacturing specs. The less precise they are the cheaper the club will be to produce. If they needed every 8.5 head to be exactly 8.5 do you know how many heads they would end up throwing out?
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Right, you're speaking of the tolerances that they allow, similar to what they do with COR targets on the face. I totally understand that and can't expect them to get it exactly right with every head they bring to retail, but they have to be within a range I would think of maybe +/- .5* (just a guess)? I mean they make an 8*, 9*, 10.5*, 12*, 13.5*, etc. so there's plenty of options especially with almost all being adjustable. The pros, for obvious reasons, wouldn't be happy and don't have to deal with those tolerances.
 
tpluff said:
I'm genuinely curious if you have a legitimate source for this information.
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I am a certified fitter for multiple OEMs and shaft companies and at one time was a TM staff member.
 
tpluff said:
Right, you're speaking of the tolerances that they allow, similar to what they do with COR targets on the face. I totally understand that and can't expect them to get it exactly right with every head they bring to retail, but they have to be within a range I would think of maybe +/- .5* (just a guess)? I mean they make an 8*, 9*, 10.5*, 12*, 13.5*, etc. so there's plenty of options especially with almost all being adjustable. The pros, for obvious reasons, wouldn't be happy and don't have to deal with those tolerances.
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It really does depend on the OEM Ping is notorious for a huge difference which is why they offer digital lofting to pick a head out if you custom order.
 
lightningbolt44 said:
It really does depend on the OEM Ping is notorious for a huge difference which is why they offer digital lofting to pick a head out if you custom order.
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Gotcha, good thing Ping tries to help the issue. But we learned quite a bit about this from the Adams rep during #OwnTheSecondShot. They are incredibly precise and test every driver because they only make so many drivers (because great drivers with their name unfortunately don't sell). But Taylormade can't because of the sheer quantity. Right on Ron.
 
tpluff said:
Right, you're speaking of the tolerances that they allow, similar to what they do with COR targets on the face. I totally understand that and can't expect them to get it exactly right with every head they bring to retail, but they have to be within a range I would think of maybe +/- .5* (just a guess)? I mean they make an 8*, 9*, 10.5*, 12*, 13.5*, etc. so there's plenty of options especially with almost all being adjustable. The pros, for obvious reasons, wouldn't be happy and don't have to deal with those tolerances.
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Their tolerances are 2 degrees in all of their metal woods and the same in their irons. That is why you should have your irons checked when you buy them. Say your lofts are suppose to be 48, 44, 40......... they might actually be 49, 42, 41........ because that is within their 2 degree margin of error in their manufacturing process.
 
AG47 said:
Their tolerances are 2 degrees in all of their metal woods and the same in their irons. That is why you should have your irons checked when you buy them. Say your lofts are suppose to be 48, 44, 40......... they might actually be 49, 42, 41........ because that is within their 2 degree margin of error in their manufacturing process.
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Alrighty, gotcha. Thanks for the information for us amatuers.
 
Lol tpluff is my hero
 
AG47 said:
Their tolerances are 2 degrees in all of their metal woods and the same in their irons. That is why you should have your irons checked when you buy them. Say your lofts are suppose to be 48, 44, 40......... they might actually be 49, 42, 41........ because that is within their 2 degree margin of error in their manufacturing process.
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That is crazy and IMO a bit ridiculous that is roughly 9-20% off on irons and 18-25% of on woods. Those have to be some of the roughest acceptable specs in the machining world I've seen.
 
AG47 said:
Their tolerances are 2 degrees in all of their metal woods and the same in their irons. That is why you should have your irons checked when you buy them. Say your lofts are suppose to be 48, 44, 40......... they might actually be 49, 42, 41........ because that is within their 2 degree margin of error in their manufacturing process.
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Are you certain it's 2 degrees tolerance and not 2 percent? I could probably get inside 2 degrees with a fire pit, hammer, and anvil and a short lesson from an artisan blacksmith at a pioneer festival. 2 degrees tolerance, on a product supposedly built in the range of 10 degrees, just doesn't seem plausible in today's age.
 
Daddio said:
Are you certain it's 2 degrees tolerance and not 2 percent? I could probably get inside 2 degrees with a fire pit, hammer, and anvil and a short lesson from an artisan blacksmith at a pioneer festival. 2 degrees tolerance just doesn't seem plausible in today's age.
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especially when we're talking about clubs that are either cast from the same mold or cut by the same CNC. 2* difference not only seems unlikely but near impossible. Although, if they have multiple manufacturing facilities all using different molds and different machines, then maybe a bigger difference between what comes from one site versus another. That said... check the molds before you start using them and there won't be a huge tolerance issue. pretty basic manufacturing stuff... right?
 
I think, as other have eluded too, what we see and what he is hitting are two different things ... Remember these guys are also walking billboards, and advertisement campaigns ... and they are paid a lot $$$ to be that ...

So what the fitters do in the club vans for each event, is sometimes custom fit for that course and conditions ...
 
I would reall be surprised if their manufacturing was that rough to allow 2* tolerence. Also if its that big with loft then core and lie angle would also vary greatly. Just not likely.

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Do we know his trackman #'s? That could add a lot to this discussion about KAYMER. ...not 2 degrees of hidden loft.....I have all my drivers digitally measured and any taylormade driver I've had has normally been within .5 degrees. ...IJS-YMMV
 
Probably because he's got a 5 stroke lead and leads the tour in total driving. What a stupid post.
 
ball striker said:
Probably because he's got a 5 stroke lead and leads the tour in total driving. What a stupid post.
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I think you are misinterpreting the question, and even if you aren't that's unnecessarily rude.

I read OP's question more as "why doesn't Kaymer need to loft up if he's using the SLDR that TM says should be lofted up?" The real answer IMO is that he has the club head speed, smash factor (center of face) and positive angle of attack of an extremely good driver. he's almost certainly launching his 8.5* SLDR higher than the average joe would with a 10.5, and his faster ball speed means he doesn't need quite as much launch angle as the average joe. it's simply a different equation when your driver swing is that good.
 
baldguy said:
I think you are misinterpreting the question, and even if you aren't that's unnecessarily rude.

I read OP's question more as "why doesn't Kaymer need to loft up if he's using the SLDR that TM says should be lofted up?" The real answer IMO is that he has the club head speed, smash factor (center of face) and positive angle of attack of an extremely good driver. he's almost certainly launching his 8.5* SLDR higher than the average joe would with a 10.5, and his faster ball speed means he doesn't need quite as much launch angle as the average joe. it's simply a different equation when your driver swing is that good.
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Well said.
 
louslugger15 said:
All I've heard about the SLDR is about lofting up and getting longer carry and roll out. Then I see Laymer's WITB and he's playing a 8.5 degree SLDR Driver. Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of the club and wouldn't there be better options for him from Taylormade? Just curious as it seems to go completely against everything I've heard about the driver.
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It's the same reason that every golfer gets fitted into different lofts, lie angles, lengths, etc. etc. All golfers are different. As a professional golfer there is no way that Kaymer just "winged" it when he picked out his loft for his driver. He probably went through multiple fittings with all different kinds of shafts/lofts/etc. to get to his chosen set up.
 
Because he doesn't need to


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AG47 said:
Their tolerances are 2 degrees in all of their metal woods and the same in their irons. That is why you should have your irons checked when you buy them. Say your lofts are suppose to be 48, 44, 40......... they might actually be 49, 42, 41........ because that is within their 2 degree margin of error in their manufacturing process.
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I've read that most manus (including TM) have tolerance of + or - 1 degree, not 2 degrees (although I can't remember where I read that). That's still a 2* swing but not in any one direction, which would be very wide tolerances.

As for manus lying about their lofts, it doesn't make sense since it's such an easy thing to be to check. Since so many lawyers golf, I wouldn't bet on that. Now, I know that manus will say "12 yards longer" when really they're just turning the 5 iron into a 4 iron (which is why many of us have clubs with letters like "A" and "G" on them these days), but saying a loft is 10.5 when it's 14* would get a class action filed against a company with pocket books as big as Addidas'.
 
He probably has a very positive angle of attack giving him the ideal dynamic loft with that head
 
Haven't read all the posts but my theory is "If it ain't broke,don't fix it"
 
baldguy said:
I think you are misinterpreting the question, and even if you aren't that's unnecessarily rude.

I read OP's question more as "why doesn't Kaymer need to loft up if he's using the SLDR that TM says should be lofted up?" The real answer IMO is that he has the club head speed, smash factor (center of face) and positive angle of attack of an extremely good driver. he's almost certainly launching his 8.5* SLDR higher than the average joe would with a 10.5, and his faster ball speed means he doesn't need quite as much launch angle as the average joe. it's simply a different equation when your driver swing is that good.
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I agree on ALL points. Well stated!
 
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