Which came first: bad swing or bad decision?

wadesworld

Well-known member
Albatross 2024 Club
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
10,905
Reaction score
3,975
Location
Nashville, TN
Handicap
11
I played a solid round yesterday (86), but as I thought back over my round I decided the majority of my problems (a double and a triple) came from bad decisions. In short, my bad swings were often the result of my poor decision.

The narrative here is a bit long, but the question is this: How often do you think your poor swings are the result of a bad decision vs making the right decision and just executing a poor swing? Note that I'm not just talking about when you come up a bit short. I'm talking about when a sure par turns into a double, triple or worse.

First situation:

I had hit a decent drive into the left rough. I had a good lie, but there was a bunker stretching across the front of the green. The pin was on the left, and I could see that the green fell away from the pin to the right. Normally I'd play out to the right and take the bunker out of play. However, I decided that there was no advantage to doing so, because the bunker stretched nearly all the way across the green.

So, I lined up pretty much at the flag at let it fly. Big mistake. I pulled the ball left, hit the short-side of the green and it ended up on the edge of the woods. That wasn't my poor swing, but on the next shot, I was faced with an extremely difficult chip out of the junk to a short-sided pin. There I made a poor swing at it and bladed it 20-feet past. I then 2-putted for double (and it took two really quality putts - I could have easily made triple). So the bad decision on the shot before put me into a position where I did not have the skill to execute the shot, and a poor swing was the result.

As I stood on the green reflecting on what I did, the correct decision was completely apparent. Had I aimed right, a pull would have put the ball close to the pin. Had I pushed the ball, I would have had a simple pitch, uphill, with tons of green with which to work - something certainly within my skill level.

Second situation:

I had hit a perfect drive into the fairway, 140 out, after coming off back-to-back pars. I was feeling good. The green was fronted by a lake. I decided on 8-iron since that's my 140 club. However, I think the realization that coming up short was dead forced me to tense up and execute a poor swing. I chunked it pretty badly and heard the splash as it landed solidly in the water, about 80 yards away.

After rolling in my triple, I reflected upon what I could have done differently. I think had I taken an extra club and concentrated on a smooth, easy, sweeping swing, rather than having to execute an excellent 8-iron, my chances of clearing the water and leaving myself in position for a bogey at worst would have been dramatically improved.

Do you see this in your game? Can you look back and attribute poor swings to poor decisions?
 
There's a book you might like to read on this subject. It's called The 30 Second Golf Swing and talks a lot about decision making and evaluating your game and the situation to make the best decision. the thought being you'll be free to swing without tension.
 
I tend to try and do the smart thing on the course as I know my game and who I am. For me the bad swing happens way more than the bad decision.
 
I try to stay away from the what-if's when I play golf. It's easy to look back and say "well if I just would have executed this shot, it wouldn't have been a bad decision", etc. etc.
 
I tend to try and do the smart thing on the course as I know my game and who I am. For me the bad swing happens way more than the bad decision.

100% agree with this.

Perfect example was my second shot on #10 at the Bridegstone Championship, we had a good drive, was sitting 225 out, pulled 8i to get me close on for the 3rd shot... Snap hooked my 8i into the trees, finished with double bogey.
 
There's some validity to the OPs suggestion that golf can be a game if unforced errors at times. That's why when I think the chances of something bad happening outweigh any good, I opt for the safest play possible. Example being that in my round on Sunday I had a few greens that were essentially surrounded by bunkers. there were 50+ bunkers on this course and nearly every green was protected on 3 sides. I layed up quite a bit because being 20 yards short on the open side of the green is better than being in any of the traps.....and since my struggles have been on second shots I played really conservative. Worked well.

That being said, bad swings will happen regardless of the situation or any mental mistakes. Just the nature of the game for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Knowing where to miss is vital. Golf truly isn't a game of good swings and good shots. It's about good misses and limiting mistakes.
 
That being said, bad swings will happen regardless of the situation or any mental mistakes. Just the nature of the game for me.


They will. And sometimes you make a bad decision and execute a perfect swing and bail yourself out of the bad decision.

However, I definitely think that I sometimes force myself into more bad swings by making bad decisions. Whenever you put yourself into an extremely difficult situation, your chances of a poor swing go up dramatically.
 
Same as 441, I make bad swings more often than bad decisions. However, if I'm unsure of whether I can pull off a shot or what I'm trying to do on a given shot, I seem to make more bad swings in those situations than when I'm confident in my plan, if that makes sense.
 
Bad swings come first and usually lead to poor choices after. A fat shot is due to a poor swing. You can fat a 7 iron just as easy as an 8i. It gets down to having a consistent swing that you can build confidence in. With out that, poor swing will be the normal. some you will get away with but the norm is that you will end up scrambling or making high numbers.
 
A wise old guy I used to play with a lot always said never follow a bad shot with a dumb shot. I wish I'd take his advice more.
 
Bad swings come first and usually lead to poor choices after. A fat shot is due to a poor swing. You can fat a 7 iron just as easy as an 8i. It gets down to having a consistent swing that you can build confidence in. With out that, poor swing will be the normal. some you will get away with but the norm is that you will end up scrambling or making high numbers.

I agree with this. I don't think wadesworld made the wrong call in the second scenario, he just hit a poor shot. Some of that comes down to having that repeatable swing and the confidence that comes with that. I think there is a huge difference between being safe and not trusting oneself.
 
A wise old guy I used to play with a lot always said never follow a bad shot with a dumb shot. I wish I'd take his advice more.

Like this weekend when I caught a fat 6i and it went about 80 yards into a bunker leaving me with about a 70 yard bunker shot to he green. My buddy was at his ball like 100 yards away on the other side of the fairway.....rather than wait for the cart and club I needed I just hit the 6 again. Chocked up and punched it out. I lucked out and got it up on the green but that was dumb and could have been much worse.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
for me 'bad decision' comes first. I will either A.) pick the short club and try to get too aggressive (all kinds of horrible things can happen there... or B.) attempt an ill advised shot that I don't practice too often...

either of which tend to get me into trouble. Because of this, I tend to have better ball striking days on courses with more hazards as I'm more likely to play within myself.
 
I'm not sure a bad swing can be attributed to a bad decision.

A bad decision can make it a lot harder mentally to make a good swing on the next shot, but course management is a big part of the game.

In the OP first example - I think he could still have avoided "blading it 20ft past" by making a good swing. Was the bad swing due to being too aggressive on the previous shot? I personally don't think so. Once that shot was over, it's over...gotta move on to the next shot and leave that one behind. I think the bad swing was probably due to putting pressure on yourself and making a mental mistake. Could have also made a good chip and stuck it close to the pin.

The mental game is harder than the physical game at times.

I agree with the above, in my own experience I've had more bad swings than bad decisions.
 
Doubt, indecision, second-guessing leads to bad swings and poor results for me.
 
Bad swings happen. I try to "take my medicine" and play a smarter/high probability for success recovery shot, rather than risking a big number. Bogey is always better than triple. Bad decisions, for me, always result after bad swings. Bad swings can happen even when I think I am making smart, good decisions.
 
In the OP first example - I think he could still have avoided "blading it 20ft past" by making a good swing. Was the bad swing due to being too aggressive on the previous shot? I personally don't think so. Once that shot was over, it's over...gotta move on to the next shot and leave that one behind. I think the bad swing was probably due to putting pressure on yourself and making a mental mistake. Could have also made a good chip and stuck it close to the pin.

The problem was though, that I had put myself on the edge of the woods, with an unstable lie and lots of branches and junk around. Not only that, but I was trying to chip up the side of a steep green to a pin not very far on.

In short, it was an EXTREMELY difficult shot - one I did not have the skill to pull off, unless I happened to get very lucky and pulled off a perfect swing - not something a 15-handicap does with lots of regularity. It's my belief that I forced myself into a bad swing by putting myself into a situation where the odds were so stacked against me, a poor swing was almost guaranteed. Now, had I left myself out the right of the green with an uphill chip and plenty of green, it's still possible I could make a bad swing and chunk it. But, the odds of that would have gone down dramatically.

That's essentially my point - for me at least, I think putting myself into the best situation improves my chances of making a good swing. I will note it's not the same for everyone. I regularly play with a golfer for whom it seems less important. He's fearless. If he hits it into a terrible spot, he just walks up, makes an amazing swing and leaves me shaking my head.
 
I had hit a decent drive into the left rough. I had a good lie, but there was a bunker stretching across the front of the green. The pin was on the left, and I could see that the green fell away from the pin to the right. Normally I'd play out to the right and take the bunker out of play. However, I decided that there was no advantage to doing so, because the bunker stretched nearly all the way across the green..

As I stood on the green reflecting on what I did, the correct decision was completely apparent. Had I aimed right, a pull would have put the ball close to the pin. Had I pushed the ball, I would have had a simple pitch, uphill, with tons of green with which to work - something certainly within my skill level.?

The problem was though, that I had put myself on the edge of the woods, with an unstable lie and lots of branches and junk around. Not only that, but I was trying to chip up the side of a steep green to a pin not very far on.

In short, it was an EXTREMELY difficult shot - one I did not have the skill to pull off, unless I happened to get very lucky and pulled off a perfect swing - not something a 15-handicap does with lots of regularity. It's my belief that I forced myself into a bad swing by putting myself into a situation where the odds were so stacked against me, a poor swing was almost guaranteed. Now, had I left myself out the right of the green with an uphill chip and plenty of green, it's still possible I could make a bad swing and chunk it. But, the odds of that would have gone down dramatically.

That's essentially my point - for me at least, I think putting myself into the best situation improves my chances of making a good swing. I will note it's not the same for everyone. .

To the highlighted from both your posts.
At a 15 cap why would you be so ceratin that the ball would have ended up close to the pin had you taken the other approach to the shot? You are only saying that based on the fact that you pulled the shot you made. Had you aimed right you may have done something totaly different. You could have sliced it, hooked even worse, flopped it , hit it fat, hit it more right, whatever the case, amy be even ended up in the same spot or worse. Your only judging what would have happened based on the result of the shot you made. You can not apply that to the shot you think you should have taken. It just doesnt work that way imo especially for a mid and higher capper where we are too inconsistent to apply such a logic. You admit yourself we dont have the consistent regularity in our game.

With that said, i do believe most need to make smart and safe decisions. I dont think poor decisions cause a poor swing. I think that logic is misguided imo. Poor decsions leave us in less desirable situations and may create a harder swing scenario to execute but they dont make us swing any worse. We make that poor swing because we are not that good and thatis the only reason. What you are implying (on a lighter note but the same logic) is like to say if we hit a tee shot into the rough and then struggle to get the ball out we should blame the poor tee shot for the poor swing we now tried from the rough. We can blame the tee shot for putting us in there and creating a less desireable situation but not for the poor swing we executed from that rough. That just doesnt mix together imo, I think its two different things. One having nothing to do with the other as far as why we make the por swing.
 
Big mistake. I pulled the ball left, hit the short-side of the green and it ended up on the edge of the woods. That wasn't my poor swing, but on the next shot, I was faced with an extremely difficult chip out of the junk to a short-sided pin. There I made a poor swing at it and bladed it 20-feet past. I then 2-putted for double (and it took two really quality putts - I could have easily made triple). So the bad decision on the shot before put me into a position where I did not have the skill to execute the shot, and a poor swing was the result.
?

On another note-
I have to be honest. An extremely difficult chip that you "bladed" 20 feet pass the pin? i would not say that is a poor shot. I would think that is actually pretty good given "extreme diffilculty". A lot of 15 cappers (or close enough to that) may have chunked it twice and/or then "bladed" it over the green all the way fro another 10 yards . I think you actually made the best of a given situation for that shot. Extreme difficulty and yet you were still putting. I guess its all relative to how one looks at things and ones over all ability. If i were there watching I probably (given the difficulty) would have said something like "hey, good shot from there" "that wasnt easy" :)
 
Sometimes it's best to take your medicine instead of doing something that is outside of your comfort zone. I used to struggle with the consequences of poor course management. I've since decided that 3 bogies are much better than 3 doubles or worse.

I also think that having faith in other aspects if your game will allow to not want to take take those risks. If there's a bailout to the right on the approach I will tend to play that instead of going at a sucker pin location because I have a stronger short game now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top