Hands at Address

[Milwaukeeguy]

Questions for Freddy (and the group).

Where do you like your hands at address?

I've been forward pressing my hands and getting them in front of the ball (like they would be at impact) at address. It's not exagerated, but the shaft definitely leans forward. Been doing it for years in an effort to hit down and compress the ball.

My miss is a low, pulled hook (for years). It's exaggerated with the longer clubs.

Well, the last few range sessions, I've tried to put my hands more over the ball (with irons), and even behind the ball with the driver. My ball flight is higher, and I rarely missed left with this approach (my miss became a fade). Obviously on wedges and irons, the ball is more in the middle or slightly back of the stance, so the shaft lean is a little different than with a 4 iron.

#1 Where should I be putting my hands at address? (over the ball? Behind the ball?)
#2 Is moving my hands back over the ball and reducing my shaft lean just a band-aid that will get me in trouble down the line?
#3 Is this just a preference thing, or is there a fundamental that I'm lacking? I've always been told my grip is solid, so I don't think that's the issue.
#4 Are there some drills I should work on, or is this simply a feel thing?

 

[Awkward silence]

For me as long as your grip is in order and you are hinging your wrists properly I dont think the forward press thing is hurting you. A lot of good players have something that starts their swing, nickalous would slighty move his chin back I believe. My only worry would be if you got carried away with it and end up delofting to the point of losing yards or not seeing the shape you are after.

 

[WMac19]

For my own psyche, I consider it less a forward press than I do shaft lean. Semantics, I know but it helps with the following as it's placement rather than an action.

Very basically, the shaft lean and therefore the orientation of my hands depends upon each club. I want my set up to vaguely mimic impact. Therefore, with wedges through say 7 iron, I'll play the ball from slightly back of center to middle and I lean the shaft forward so the grip is pointed at my left pants pocket.

Shaft lean will lessen slightly for me with the 6 to 5 iron as I play the ball in the middle of my stance to one ball length forward. I set up and swing my hybrids as if they were long irons so they too are afforded some shaft lean wrt ball position. 4 wood 's lean is just left of center for me.

And with driver, although the grip is pointing at my belt buckle, I set up with the ball just off my left heel therefore my hands are a bit behind the ball. However, tee height and where I may decide to play the ball in my stance will influence my hands and shaft lean.

Save for driver, taking into account ball position and resulting hand position my set up feels very much the same with each club. Driver is admittedly different as I'm trying to impact the ball on a slightly ascending path, the opposite as with the others.

 

[EaglevsFalcon]

It doesn't have much to do with address position, but when I have that miss, it usually means that my head didn't stay behind the ball at impact.

 

[Tadashi70]

I am from the school that feels the hands need to be in front of the ball at address. It promoted a descending blow and solid contact. If having your hands forward to causing you to miss left and low, I think your alignment is off and causing an OTT move.

A forward hand position can have a tendency to pull the right shoulder forward. This would explain the possible OTT move and left, low miss.
Another possible reason for low left is a pre-set shut face. Sometimes when you forward press the club head tends to shut.

 

[Milwaukeeguy]

I'm hoping it's not an OTT move because I've worked really hard to eliminate that the past 3 years, and if anything I feel like I'm more likely to get stuck inside than come OTT.

I've been hitting a lot of irons a a couple of grooves thin lately, so I've been working on that. With less shaft lean, I was able to bottom out the swing a little sooner/lower (figure 1/8"), and the contact was much better. I don't know if that is technically related to my shaft lean, or if it's just a slight change in feel that's helping. I mean, technically a shaft with less shaft lean is "longer", but it wouldn't really be "longer" at impact... hmmmm...

I guess I'll keep riding it and see how it goes.

I'm def. going to keep my hands behind the ball with the driver. That's made a pretty noticeable difference and seems easily repeatable.

 

[Hawk]

I am from the school that feels the hands need to be in front of the ball at address. It promoted a descending blow and solid contact. If having your hands forward to causing you to miss left and low, I think your alignment is off and causing an OTT move.

A forward hand position can have a tendency to pull the right shoulder forward. This would explain the possible OTT move and left, low miss.
Another possible reason for low left is a pre-set shut face. Sometimes when you forward press the club head tends to shut.

A problem I've recently worked on correcting at setup. I actually set the club to what feels like it open in my hands right now, but confirmed with the instructor that it was square. Has helped me quite a bit.

 

[Tadashi70]

If I find I am pulling a lot of shots, I will play with an open club face to counter act the shutting of the face. This will happen mid round or early in a round and does the trick.

A problem I've recently worked on correcting at setup. I actually set the club to what feels like it open in my hands right now, but confirmed with the instructor that it was square. Has helped me quite a bit.

 

[Milwaukeeguy]

A problem I've recently worked on correcting at setup. I actually set the club to what feels like it open in my hands right now, but confirmed with the instructor that it was square. Has helped me quite a bit.

I have a feeling that's where I'm at.

For whatever reason, I've probably slowly moved my hands forward and closed the clubface over the years, so now that looks "normal" to me.

My idea of "normal" probably has my hands 1/2" too far forward with the face a little shut... so it feels a little weird/like cheating to move them back. (to neutral/square)

I'm hoping this slight change at address is not just a band-aid, but a slight tweak/correction that can help me in the long run.

 

[Tadashi70]

Best of luck in your quest.

I'm hoping it's not an OTT move because I've worked really hard to eliminate that the past 3 years, and if anything I feel like I'm more likely to get stuck inside than come OTT.

I've been hitting a lot of irons a a couple of grooves thin lately, so I've been working on that. With less shaft lean, I was able to bottom out the swing a little sooner/lower (figure 1/8"), and the contact was much better. I don't know if that is technically related to my shaft lean, or if it's just a slight change in feel that's helping. I mean, technically a shaft with less shaft lean is "longer", but it wouldn't really be "longer" at impact... hmmmm...

I guess I'll keep riding it and see how it goes.

I'm def. going to keep my hands behind the ball with the driver. That's made a pretty noticeable difference and seems easily repeatable.

 

[SkiBumGolfer]

A problem I've recently worked on correcting at setup. I actually set the club to what feels like it open in my hands right now, but confirmed with the instructor that it was square. Has helped me quite a bit.

This was me. I was working on not missing right earlier this year, and I had gotten to a point where closed looked like square to me.

 

[mikedean441]

A problem I've recently worked on correcting at setup. I actually set the club to what feels like it open in my hands right now, but confirmed with the instructor that it was square. Has helped me quite a bit.

I'm in the same boat and to make matters worse right before my take away I forward press even more. Trying to make a conscious effort to stop it as much as I can

 

[Milwaukeeguy]

Best of luck in your quest.

Thanks Freddie.

Shaved 1 stroke this summer so far.

3 to go, but it's going to be tough. I have to string together some good rounds.

I just want to say, at one point in my life, I was a single digit handicap.

 

[Tadashi70]

Thanks Freddie.

Shaved 1 stroke this summer so far.

3 to go, but it's going to be tough. I have to string together some good rounds.

I just want to say, at one point in my life, I was a single digit handicap.

Handicap is just a number, it's great to have but learning to score is so much more fun.

 

[Milwaukeeguy]

Handicap is just a number, it's great to have but learning to score is so much more fun.

The confidence and decision making is really what I've had fun with this summer.

I've gained some length, accuracy and confidence, so I know I only have to get to (insert yardage) to have a good chance to make a par. This takes a lot of pressure off my driver, and allows me to play more strategically, which is fun.

The more skills I build, the more my brain can help me score. I have more options now, and I know I can limit risks and maximize reward depending upon the hole.

 

[Milwaukeeguy]

Just to round out this thread, I found a nice picture of David Leadbetter's hand position and shaft lean.

I think my issue is that I had slowly developed a 9rion shaft lean in all of my clubs (in an effort to hit down and compress the ball).

I just need to move my hands back a little bit and reduce the lean in the longer clubs. I practiced it the other night and had great results with my long irons, (which previously had evolved into hook machines.)

So, if you are striking it ok, but everything is moving left, double check your hand position/shaft lean. You might have a developed a little too much lean.