High MOI putters. Why don't more people use them?

[LeftySean]

I cannot stand the looks of mallet putters. But:

Just keep in mind High Moi no longer means big mallet anymore. Some high moi putters come in a blade looking type package.

This has me intrigued. I would be more receptive to high MOI putters if they looked like....well....putters.


That said, I find I have no major problems getting the ball to roll in the direction I want (on a flat surface), and I have pretty decent distance control (on a flat surface). I suspect I could benefit a bit with a high MOI putter, but I think my struggles with putting are really struggles with green reading.

 

[milehighgolfer]

Unless Im branding cattle, give me a blade over a high MOI mallet every time.

This made me laugh out loud.

High MOI to me is those huge blocks of metal on a stick like the Nome or ones with weights going back in different directions like the DaddyLongLegs, All of which give me zero feel in striking the ball.

With that said, I have started to use a heavy midsized mallet that is counterbalanced. Which I consider a different animal than what the op is asking about.

 

[Faiz]

Was doing some weekend reading on MOI and came across this thread.
So sorry to raise it from the dead but I felt I could pass on from some of my reading.

Everyone always bangs on about how having a high MOI increases the size of the sweetspot and reduces the effect of twisting on misses.
These are both true but the key benefit of using a high MOI putter is that it is significantly more resistant to twisting full stop.
Of course that is only relevant to face balance putters because the putter head MOI and shaft MOI are very closely related as they are already almost similar axes.

Obviously that's a huge benefit to a straight through putting stroke where you don't want the head to twist.
But it's disastrous for any stroke with an arc.

The main problem with high MOI putters is that they're not actually that high, maybe 8500 to an Anser style of 4-5000.
Case in point, when I bought my Ping Udrainium 15 I had to change from my Bettinardi and it was a massive change!
Obviously there were laughs etc but my putting improved a lot and I enjoyed putting again.
Then I bought a Daddy Long Legs and switched from the U-Doc and my putting got worse.
Back then I remember all the talk of high MOI but it's only now I realize that that particular switch was a downgrade in MOI.
Ping was ahead of the game and if you look at their crazy designs over the years they've always been releasing super high MOI putters.

But why is it that high MOI putters do not necessarily have that high an MOI?
It's because to make a genuinely high MOI putter at a reasonable cost would result in a putter that is both big and most probably ugly.
Such as my U-Doc which is probably the best looking of the bunch but it's huge.

As Jman rightly said aesthetics play a key role in playing good golf.
Because aesthetics build confidence but I find that understanding the science behind it can build confidence too.
It's a double edged sword that needs a balance but the majority of people can't game one purely due to the mocking nature of the rest of our peers.

I recently discovered these Black Hawk videos on YouTube;



There are quite a few similar videos.
Maybe not everyone but surely with results like that your interest would be piqued enough to give it a go?
To be honest everyone's first question when I show them that video is, 'is that legal?'
I'd love to try that putter but it's a long way from here in Uganda to the States but I imagine I'll buy one eventually.

Ok I have my own interests which have given me the direction to do this research but the more and more I do the more it makes sense to me.

Why do the best putters out there use blades and 8802's etc?
Because they have confidence and a solid stroke.
Unfortunately for me that's not the case, sure I can play well with a blade but I want as much help as I can get.
Every single stroke counts in competitive golf and I want to win!:banana:

 

[Jman]

I don't particularly agree with the concept of Arc'd strokes vs SBST (or the actual existence of SBST), but thats for another thread altogether.

On to the MOI effects in putters, it absolutely does reduce the resistance to twisting and as such keeps the putt on a better line on misses and also retains more energy from the stroke for a more consistent distance.

As for the question of why the High MOI putters aren't actually that high, you must remember when you compare them to the Anser design you are comparing them to the FIRST design based on MOI, because when Karsten designed the Anser that what he created, with weight further back and to the oustide the MOI came up SIGNIFICANTLY from the 8802 and other blade designs of the day. As tech has advanced, getting putters in the 8k/9k range (Grace has a couple 9k designs) IS a big jump from the Anser, compare it to the MOI of an 8802 instead and see the worlds of difference there. The Black Hawk I believe claims to be around 20k MOI, which is crazy, I also reviewed the L2 putter which has a MASSIVE MOI and claimed to be the highest in golf as well and it is right there as well.

In the end, I fully grasp the idea of the benefits of MOI, but I have always had one question, how is it possible to have major misses on the face of a putter laterally? This isn't a full swing club here, in the end it comes back to the STROKE more than anything. We see 8802's and Anser styles used more because of that fact, the putting stroke is a stroke and not a swing, there isn't the margin for missing laterally that you get with other clubs in your bag. I love the science of MOI and test misses any time I review a putter to see how it retains line and distance, but to me its vastly overthought by many and at times becomes too much of a focus. In the end though its about confidence, if it give you confidence, then roll it proudly, we all have different preferences!

Love talking putters. I could do it all day.

 

[Hawk]

I really think a heel/toe weighted blade has plenty of MOI for a reasonable putting stroke.

 

[Jman]

I really think a heel/toe weighted blade has plenty of MOI for a reasonable putting stroke.

Agreed. Entirely.

Unless someone is full swinging their putter. Even then, Sadlowski hits his well. LOL

 

[Hawk]

Not to mention the scale of the misses is so much smaller just based on the length the ball travels. I've tested this quite a bit in the last year and just don't see a big difference with distance or line on misses. I can miss or make with either.

 

[Jman]

Not to mention the scale of the misses is so much smaller just based on the length the ball travels. I've tested this quite a bit in the last year and just don't see a big difference with distance or line on misses. I can miss or make with either.

Basically what I was getting at in my reply to Faiz, yep.

I will say though, having rolled a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT of HMOI and non HMOI designs there is merit if you just have a terrible miss (though again, not to sound harsh, I can't grasp HOW you could be missing the center of the putter by an inch), take the Ketsch for example, I've not rolled a standard mallet with the benefits on misses like that one. Now the CRAZY designs like the L2, you can literally hit it anywhere on the face and see the same results, but its ugly as hell and MASSIVE.

I love the science behind MOI in putters, it makes sense, its why the Anser shape became the end all be all that it has become and left the 8802 little more than a memory. But the misses some companies are talking about HMOI correcting are simply boggling to me in terms of seeing someone actually missing a putt by that much.

 

[Hawk]

I tend to think there is more merit to the size/weight thing if we're talking a yippy stroke. That's where I see MOI being a little more applicable. Not the actual results on impact, but the force needed to move the putter. Heavy seems to help certain people quite a bit.

 

[jlukes]

I find them great for short putts (insisde 6 feet or so), but I really struggle with distance control with larger putters.

 

[Hawk]

I find them great for short putts (insisde 6 feet or so), but I really struggle with distance control with larger putters.

I know we hear that quite a bit. Personally I didn't have that issue with the Tank, but it's a common complaint.

 

[Jman]

I tend to think there is more merit to the size/weight thing if we're talking a yippy stroke. That's where I see MOI being a little more applicable. Not the actual results on impact, but the force needed to move the putter. Heavy seems to help certain people quite a bit.

Agreed, weight matters more IMO, always has to me. Its been nice seeing companies EMBRACE the weight options and try to present them to consumers in ways they can try and understand.

Some wicked ideas are coming for the weighting and counter-weighting in putters, and I like it.

 

[jlukes]

I know we hear that quite a bit. Personally I didn't have that issue with the Tank, but it's a common complaint.

Yup, not an issue everyone has. Hell, I know some people that say they can control distance with a larger putter than with a smaller one. Options aren't a bad thing.

 

[CBaker]

I love a lot of different shapes and sizes of putters, some probably have much higher MOI than others...but in the end if I put my normal stroke on it, they all tend to have the same result. I have blades, mallets, and mid mallets, the only thing that has any effect on me is the weight. Just goes down to how the putter fits my eye and what weight feels best. I don't even take MOI into consideration.

 

[Faiz]

I don't particularly agree with the concept of Arc'd strokes vs SBST (or the actual existence of SBST), but thats for another thread altogether.

In the end, I fully grasp the idea of the benefits of MOI, but I have always had one question, how is it possible to have major misses on the face of a putter laterally? This isn't a full swing club here, in the end it comes back to the STROKE more than anything.

Yup I agree with both points here.
SBST is still technically an arc as it would be unnatural to actually follow the line of the putt with your swing.
But it's a significantly smaller or less pronounced arc.

The 'sweetspot across the whole face' phenomenon is a benefit which is actually not really relevant to anything as far as I'm concerned.
As a sufferer of the yips I find that it's more of a twist of the wrist kind of thing so the arc of your stroke still remains the same.
Thus you're still striking the ball in a very very similar place to where you intended to but the face is not facing the same place.
The miss always seems to be the right length for me but obviously off line.

I really think a heel/toe weighted blade has plenty of MOI for a reasonable putting stroke.

That's definitely true too but not everyone has a good putting stroke.
As you've both said that's why there are different putters out there.
I definitely agree that heavier also really helps as it's harder to yip a slower swing.
In my experience anyway.

 

[Hawk]

I guess I should put that comment in perspective.

I don't think everybody should play a heel/toe blade by any stretch of the imagination. It was more a comment based on things I've read in the past (not in this thread) that suggested a heel/toe blade was inherently a difficult putter to use and that not using a high MOI mallet was detrimental to one's game.

 

[Faiz]

In that case imagine if Tiger had used a high MOI instead of his Scotty when he was in his prime!lol

 

[Golf 'N Gator]

I guess I should put that comment in perspective.

I don't think everybody should play a heel/toe blade by any stretch of the imagination. It was more a comment based on things I've read in the past (not in this thread) that suggested a heel/toe blade was inherently a difficult putter to use and that not using a high MOI mallet was detrimental to one's game.

Everyone should not. Everyone should go thru a fitting and find what works best for them. I've putted my entire 45 years of playing with a blade (and I own a 2 ball as well) but the big heads are just too busy for me and most are pretty ugly to look at. The putter has to not only fit your stroke but your eye as well. I'll take a blade any day, although I have had good days with the Odyssey 2 Ball.

 

[BuckeyeMark]

I'm actually in the market for a new putter and I'm impressed with the Odyssey Versa black/white/black line. Interestingly I can't find but very few models that are b/w/b or w/b/w AND have a mark on the top of the "blade" showing the center position. I like the Tank (which is high MOI) but it's not b/w/b any more! What's up with that?

 

[Hawk]

That's 100% the reason I never bought a Versa #1. The #2 has a line though. By the time I realized that I had moved on to a different ponder though.