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TaylorMade Woes

SuperStroke
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Hawk said:
My impression is that it's not so much "too many releases", but rather the massive retail buy-in (remember what just happened to Dick's) that was due to the success of the previous lines coupled with products that weren't a fit for what people expect now. They went to the well with the same expectations too many times, and dropped inferior product out there while doing it. 2014 was supposed to be a pretty slow year for them, but they dropped and disappeared Jetspeed (inferior in today's environment) in a matter of months and then did the same with SLDRs (again, inferior in the sense of new technology) just a short while later. Huge misteps by both TM and their retail partners.

It's not releases. Other companies have released a bunch of stuff and done ok. Instead, it's a bunch of releases with massive buy-ins that were poor product lines.
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This was my thought as well. I think the 2014 line was just a bad release cycle for them. Outside of irons, everything else seemed to fall flat for whatever reason. Couple that with other OEM's (Callaway & Cobra) just killing it with new design/technology & they suffered WAY MORE than they anticipated. Seems like they got complacent being at the top and thought anything they threw out there would sell & it didn't. I'm also a believer that the global economy plays a factor, and like in the US, discretionary income just isn't there for the golfers that bought the latest and greatest on a whim. IMO that is affecting not only retail sales, but also rounds played and green grass revenue as well.
 
I don't know how they didn't see this coming. It's been pretty obvious to many in the industry for a year or more. The reactive release of SLDR earlier than planned. The loss of high-level talent. The bad marketing campaigns. It's just reeked of scrambling to regain or hold on to market share for a long time now and the impression many have is one of "they bought it before, they'll buy it now".

Think about Jetspeed. Three marketing campaigns, a huge buy in from Dick's/GG, and then it's literally killed in 100 days or so. And now look at Dick's.
 
Hawk said:
I don't know how they didn't see this coming. It's been pretty obvious to many in the industry for a year or more. The reactive release of SLDR earlier than planned. The loss of high-level talent. The bad marketing campaigns. It's just reeked of scrambling to regain or hold on to market share for a long time now and the impression many have is one of "they bought it before, they'll buy it now".

Think about Jetspeed. Three marketing campaigns, a huge buy in from Dick's/GG, and then it's literally killed in 100 days or so. And now look at Dick's.
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They better come up with something good in 2015. The ship has been taking on water for quite some time, another year of awfulness might make it very close to sinkable
 
Don't forget that TM as a company has had some pretty big talent loss in recent years. Tom Olsavsky, who was a huge R&D figure at TM left to join Cobra. Losing Harry Arnett to Callaway was another big loss. It left them running the same marketing that they did during the golf bubble, and that's not easy.
 
Hawk said:
My impression is that it's not so much "too many releases", but rather the massive retail buy-in (remember what just happened to Dick's) that was due to the success of the previous lines coupled with products that weren't a fit for what people expect now. They went to the well with the same expectations too many times, and dropped inferior product out there while doing it. 2014 was supposed to be a pretty slow year for them, but they dropped and disappeared Jetspeed (inferior in today's environment) in a matter of months and then did the same with SLDRs (again, inferior in the sense of new technology) just a short while later. Huge misteps by both TM and their retail partners.

It's not releases. Other companies have released a bunch of stuff and done ok. Instead, it's a bunch of releases with massive buy-ins that were poor product lines.
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DING DING DING! This^^^
 
Seems just like terrible planning. With the way TM has been releasing equipment, if I was Dick's or whoever I'd make them give me their equipment on consignment. Too much too fast to sink a ton of $ into it.
 
All that said, I hope the best for them. A strong Tmag is good for the industry. What they did between R7 and R1 was huge.
 
Why spend $500 for a club you know will be down to $350 in a few months? The saturation thing makes sense too. When the less affluent customer can buy the technology for 1/5 the original price a year after it is released thats what they will do. Others will think abut buying it for a month or two and wait for the first price drop.
Then there is the exclusivity factor. If you want to know how that works just head over to the Scotty Cameron Custom Shop. People will pay for one of a kind and custom equipment that not everyone has. If you put 10,000 of the same item on the shelf and start reducing prices to clear them out there is no more exclusivity. It's like GM's problems selling Corvettes in the early 80's. Prices were low enough they were affordable for a lot of people. When they brought out the 32 valve OHC V8 and raised the price to 6 digits they couldn't make enough of them suddenly, because not everyone could afford them.

Somebody has a mess to clean up now and a big marketing job to bring the brand back to better profitability.
 
mikedean441 said:
They better come up with something good in 2015. The ship has been taking on water for quite some time, another year of awfulness might make it very close to sinkable
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I think sinkable is a bit much. Their trajectory isn't good, but they are still the market leader in a number of categories as well as on Tour. Another 1-2 years like this one and it might be a different story.
 
Hawk said:
All that said, I hope the best for them. A strong Tmag is good for the industry. What they did between R7 and R1 was huge.
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They were here the big dog in adjustability and had zero competition in it. Now adjustability is standard in the industry. Couple that with the fact that the marketing for these other companies is just much better it's gonna hurt you.
 
I agree but I also think they reached a saturation point. The tap for new product must be turned down a bit while the market adjusts.The consumer sometimes just comes to a point where they want to try something else.This may also serve as a lifeline for the smaller golf shops as they fight to compete.They are the guys who have to sell the BStones and other up and coming brands to have a point of difference.
Hawk said:
All that said, I hope the best for them. A strong Tmag is good for the industry. What they did between R7 and R1 was huge.
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annsguy said:
I agree but I also think they reached a saturation point. The tap for new product must be turned down a bit while the market adjusts.The consumer sometimes just comes to a point where they want to try something else.This may also serve as a lifeline for the smaller golf shops as they fight to compete.They are the guys who have to sell the BStones and other up and coming brands to have a point of difference.
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I just don't think that's the case. I think they could have approached the releases differently and still done better than they did.
 
I think this because I saw it in the running shoe channel when Asics got hot, then sold every channel they could and flowed product relentlessly.
The small dealer got fed up with the big box getting the goods first and all the ad support. The market got over saturated with Asics product and they had to adjust.
I agree that perhaps the timing of the releases Taylor Made hurt them as much as anything. I for one could not keep up with what was current and what was out of date in the t.M. line. The smaller dealer simply cannot buy all that product that often from one brand then sell it and have much money left for other brands. perhaps that was the real stradegy.Sell so much that there was no open to buy left to support other brands.
 
annsguy said:
I think this because I saw it in the running shoe channel when Asics got hot, then sold every channel they could and flowed product relentlessly.
The small dealer got fed up with the big box getting the goods first and all the ad support. The market got over saturated with Asics product and they had to adjust.
I agree that perhaps the timing of the releases Taylor Made hurt them as much as anything. I for one could not keep up with what was current and what was out of date in the t.M. line. The smaller dealer simply cannot buy all that product that often from one brand then sell it and have much money left for other brands. perhaps that was the real stradegy.Sell so much that there was no open to buy left to support other brands.
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The thing is, there were other companies during that time that released as much, if not more than they did. Granted, they didn't have the clout to encourage huge buy-ins by the big reteailers, but still. The releases in and of themselves aren't the problem. They released more from R7 to R1 and had massive success. Their 'low-end' offerings were huge - Burner, RBZ.
 
Hawk said:
My impression is that it's not so much "too many releases", but rather the massive retail buy-in (remember what just happened to Dick's) that was due to the success of the previous lines coupled with products that weren't a fit for what people expect now. They went to the well with the same expectations too many times, and dropped inferior product out there while doing it. 2014 was supposed to be a pretty slow year for them, but they dropped and disappeared Jetspeed (inferior in today's environment) in a matter of months and then did the same with SLDRs (again, inferior in the sense of new technology) just a short while later. Huge misteps by both TM and their retail partners.

It's not releases. Other companies have released a bunch of stuff and done ok. Instead, it's a bunch of releases with massive buy-ins that were poor product lines.
Click to expand...

I've said it before but its still interesting to me. Taylormade mentioned that working with Dicks was difficult because of DSG's and Golf Galaxy's position. They're the largest golf retailer and know it.

Taylormade made it sound like a bit of a pissing match.
 
Sooooo, I note a couple of things. First, they discuss the inability to move old inventory out of retail, which fits right in line with what Dick's Sporting Goods complained about with having to sell 6 month old drivers at 50% off. Then, I note that they want to reduce the second half of 2014 retail inventory and will 'take steps' to do so. Does that mean old inventory (R1s, Jetspeed, etc) or does that just mean they're going to produce less?

Interesting article. Kind of makes you wonder if we've watched the very quick rise and fall of TMs dominance of the driver market.

~Rock
 
I think the problem is, and this goes along with the "liquidation of old inventory" thing is that you can walk into a Dick's or Sports Authority and see something like 6 iron sets from TM. Last I was at Dick's there was the RBZ, Burner 2.0, The Dick's only Burner 3.0, Rocketbladez, Speedblade. So it's not that they released a lot in the timeframe, it's that they've released a lot and it's still on shelves. Outside of the clearance rack, you don't see 3 year old models being sold next to the current models - usually only one year back like you see Callaway doing with the N14.

Because of this, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the issues had to do with orders placed a couple years ago than this year. Though they had some issues this year - the Jetspeed was clearly a disaster from a marketing standpoint (which is too bad, because those woods and hybrids were great). Between the Speedblade and SLDR irons (especially the SLDR), my opinion of TM has actually moved more into the positive category this year.
 
Hawk, you would know a ton more than I in respect to the amount of product released to retail.Even your comment that others released more surprised me. I assume that was Callaway. Their current buzz with their new stuff must have hurt Taylor Made as well.Lots of other factors at play here. How well they ship, customer service and how they handle a problem like this when it arises.Nobody like the taste of stale product and buyers like their jobs too much to allow mistakes to happen for long.It is a what have you done for me lately world.

Hawk said:
T he thing is, there were other companies during that time that released as much, if not more than they did. Granted, they didn't have the clout to encourage huge buy-ins by the big reteailers, but still. The releases in and of themselves aren't the problem. They released more from R7 to R1 and had massive success. Their 'low-end' offerings were huge - Burner, RBZ.
Click to expand...
 
For those that actually pay attention to this stuff, just look at the progression.

-A few years prior we had the light/long thing with the off line - Superfast and 2.0. Both successful, especially after it turned white.
-Adjustability hits and it's huge.
-R11 hits. HUGE.
-RBZ comes and we hear that light/long is dead. As in they literally stated that in the marketing material. RBZ introduces technology that actually works and works well. It's marketed exceptionally well - white clubs and a stupid name with big events at the retailers.
-R11s drops and the commercial is basically stating that R11 is inferior. Backlash starts.
-RBZ 2 begins and we start to hear the 11+7 thing and people begin to tire of it. Started cropping up frequently on forums.
-R1 comes and now we are playing the wrong loft - but it's actually a pretty awesome product since you can buy one driver and dial it in.
-SLDR comes earlier than planned, and now we are still playing the wrong loft. It's a very hot/cold product as well for average golfers.
-Jetspeed drops. Now light and long is back. And the marketing campaigns almost feel like they came out of the 90's.
-SLDRs drops and again - we are still playing the wrong loft. But, we won't let you adjust it this time. Distance for all - sort of if you want to buy a third driver in a year with fewer features than the last three.


All along, huge retail buy-ins matched with increasingly inferior (in the consumer's eye) product and a real confusion as to what is really right for optimal performance. Eventually people are just going to say eff it and realize they've been fed a line of crap. Take any of those out of the equation and things change though. No massive buy-in, you don't have the inventory issues and big drops in prices. Good product - people will buy it. We saw that from R9-R1 and even into SLDR. Confusion and poor marketing - people will still buy in if it's good product, but you can't lose credibility in two spots like that.
 
annsguy said:
Hawk, you would know a ton more than I in respect to the amount of product released to retail.Even your comment that others released more surprised me. I assume that was Callaway. Their current buzz with their new stuff must have hurt Taylor Made as well.Lots of other factors at play here. How well they ship, customer service and how they handle a problem like this when it arises.Nobody like the taste of stale product and buyers like their jobs too much to allow mistakes to happen for long.It is a what have you done for me lately world.
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Callaway did have some effect I think, which resulted in some reactionary releases that contributed to a loss of credibility on TMag's part imo.

As for other big releasers - PING, Mizuno, Adams are in that club as well. The latter two obviously aren't carrying a ton of clout though - at least in the US market in Mizunos case and outside hybrids in Adams' case.
 
Intresting i am sure if it is happening at TM others OEM's are feeling similar pain
 
I'm a huge Callaway fan, most know/see this. However, a stong TaylorMade/Adidas brand is crucial to golf and I don't want to see them go. This would be like closing down Ford or GM, for the golf industry. Granted it's not like the American Economy would tank, I'm not saying that, but for the golf industry it would be a major loss.
I don't see them shuttering the doors, but if they don't get there Sh** in gear, that's the path they are heading down it seems.
 
Over saturation.... Plain and simple. Newer and better every few months won't help....Especially if you're putting $$ into a high amount of inventory and having it then sit around for years..... Someone got way ahead of themselves and it's going to take an interesting move to get that all fixed. I'm guessing that move is 'time' because I don't see an easy fix.
 
I would imagine they would find it hard to sell older models when they push and push new models every few months. I wonder if their new planning will involve not having a new driver as often as before and moving toward just an annual release.
 
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