A Great Year Without Winning?

[PhillyV]

I think so. Because we could have had this discussion last year about Tiger and if his season was considered a good season even though he didn't win a major. Rickie has played so solid all year as previously stated. And anyone saying he hasn't had a good year is lying to themselves. Not to take anything from Ogilvy's win last week, but to me, Rickie is having twice the season he is and Ogilvy has a win

 

[Martsy]

I dont disagree, but hear me out for a second. And this goes along for a lot of the posts in here I think. I think people are viewing it in a weird way saying it depends on who does it. This is not "great personal feelings" type of great. Its about "having a great year". Have we been programmed that greatness is now good or above average due to popularity?

A great year is just that, a great year. The only example I can think of where winning was excluded from a great year (and its arguable) is the year the Patriots went undefeated and then lost in the Super Bowl.

Jordan Spieth choking (some would argue that) at Augusta and hanging around on leaderboards is not a great year. Its a solid year. Maybe even a good year. But a great year?
What does greatness even mean anymore, if a player does not have to be great to get the title?

If a player finished 2nd in all 4 majors, would that not be "greater" than winning 1, and missing the cut in the other 3? I'd argue all other things the same, the former had a better year, and frankly that would be a a great year.

The Patriots season superbowl loss is different...in football, the entire season culminates to 1 game. Everything else is just the path to get there. Where as in golf, while we do have the fedex cup, it's not even remotely the same parallel. In fact, I doubt any golfer would take a Fed Ex win over a major.

 

[PhillyV]

A Great Year Without Winning?

Fowler is they only player who has finished in the top 5 in each major this year. That's a pretty dang good year, but I agree with others, it's not great without a win.

Honest question. If it's not "great" without a win, is it "great" with Just a win and a bunch of MCs

 

[JB]

I think "great year" varies from player to player. I don't think necessarily what is great for one, is great for another. I just don't see it as black and white. Now for it to be a historically great year, then yes wins and wins in big events are needed.

I'm thinking of a golfer right now who would be a good one to ask about it, and that would be Kevin Na. 2014 by the numbers has been his best year on tour. He's moved up to I think his highest ever World Golf Ranking(we can argue the system is flawed), has won more money, and is currently 17th in the FedEx cup points. 12 Top 25's in 22 starts, with 5 top 10's. No he does not have a win this year, he lost in a playoff at The Memorial. Only 1 win on tour and that came in 2011(Fall Series Event). I would venture to guess that for him, 2014 would be looked upon as a great year. Perhaps even better than 2011.

I look back at some discussions we have had in the past about HOF stuff and the value put on majors nowadays. So shrink it down to a calendar year. Does 4 days of winning golf make a great year?

And that might make it a very good year for his earnings and personal goals, but a great year? How can one be great without being great? Doesn't greatness mean something different than above average or good?

The question is not really "the best year of their career" or "the best they can do". If you are determing great year, the number one part of the phrase is great, and the second is year. Now if it says "great year for them", then that might be a better description. But to give you an example.

Jimmy Walker wins 3 times on tour. That is a great year. its not a great year for Jimmy Walker, its a great year period. Tiger Woods wins 5 times. Its not a great year for Tiger Woods (literally), but its still a great year.

 

[JB]

If a player finished 2nd in all 4 majors, would that not be "greater" than winning 1, and missing the cut in the other 3? I'd argue all other things the same, the former had a better year, and frankly that would be a a great year.

The Patriots season superbowl loss is different...in football, the entire season culminates to 1 game. Everything else is just the path to get there. Where as in golf, while we do have the fedex cup, it's not even remotely the same parallel. In fact, I doubt any golfer would take a Fed Ex win over a major.

One could argue that the entire season for these guys ends with the majors. Winning 1 and missing the cut in the other 3 would be chosen by just about every guy on tour. Winning a major puts you in a rare class and special brotherhood. Finishing runner up does not.

 

[dcbrad]

Honest question. If it's not "great" without a win, is it "great" with Just a win and a bunch of MCs

Had he missed quite a few cuts? Performances that stand out to me are the WGC Match Play and obviously the first 3 majors.

In your scenario, Matt Every comes to mind, he's won once and also struggled quite a bit as well. probably Wouldn't characterize his season as great.

 

[dcbrad]

I see you've edited your question, no takesy backsies! Lol.

If Fowler wins this year, I would call it a great year for him, especially looking back at last year.

 

[PhillyV]

Had her missed quite a few cuts? Performed that stand out to me are the WGC Match Play and obviously the first 3 majors.

In your scenario, Matt Every comes to mind, he's won once and also struggled quite a bit as well. probably Wouldn't characterize his season as great.

Right, but with your "not great without a win" comment, Every would be having a "great"-er season than Rickie?

 

[Martsy]

One could argue that the entire season for these guys ends with the majors. Winning 1 and missing the cut in the other 3 would be chosen by just about every guy on tour. Winning a major puts you in a rare class and special brotherhood. Finishing runner up does not.

this is where we'll have to disagree. I'd take Sergio's career over that of Y.E. Yang, Todd Hamilton, Lucas Glover, or Trevor Immelman...just to name a few off the top of my head.

 

[dcbrad]

Right, but with your "not great without a win" comment, Every would be having a "great"-er season than Rickie?

I guess my comment was based off of Fowlers performance this year, in relation to past years. I think it might have already been said, but the same performance (1 win) can be great for one person and not great for another. In Fowlers case, a win would push it into a great year for him.

 

[ddec]

And that might make it a very good year for his earnings and personal goals, but a great year? How can one be great without being great? Doesn't greatness mean something different than above average or good?

The question is not really "the best year of their career" or "the best they can do". If you are determing great year, the number one part of the phrase is great, and the second is year. Now if it says "great year for them", then that might be a better description. But to give you an example.

Jimmy Walker wins 3 times on tour. That is a great year. its not a great year for Jimmy Walker, its a great year period. Tiger Woods wins 5 times. Its not a great year for Tiger Woods (literally), but its still a great year.

Correct. I am looking at it more as a great year for them. Jimmy Walker has had a great year, without a winning a major. Patrick Reed has had a great year, without winning a major. I think guys can have a great year, for themselves, without winning a tournament. Will it be considered great by everyone, no. Similarly people who have had what some would consider a great year(TW winning tournaments but no majors), wouldn't consider it a great year.

In a way, I think we are saying something similar, just looking at the question differently. If you are stacking great years against other great years, then I will so no. Historically it would be hard to find a great year without a win.

 

[JB]

this is where we'll have to disagree. I'd take Sergio's career over that of Y.E. Yang, Todd Hamilton, Lucas Glover, or Trevor Immelman...just to name a few off the top of my head.

Nobody said anything about career. I said year. And Sergio himself would take any of those single year's where those guys won the major over his single year playing against them.

 

[OITW]

I think you can have a good year without a win....but it takes a win to make it a great year.

100% agree with Tim. Fowler has had a good year. But English (last few tournaments aside) has had a great year, same with Kuch because they got the wins.

 

[ddec]

Nobody said anything about career. I said year. And Sergio himself would take any of those single year's where those guys won the major over his single year playing against them.

100000000% agree.

 

[mikedean441]

Good year yes...great to me requires a win

 

[Martsy]

Nobody said anything about career. I said year. And Sergio himself would take any of those single year's where those guys won the major over his single year playing against them.

well your rational was because of a brotherhood they join...i'm pretty sure you meant for life, not just for that year. ergo...i compared careers.

Anyway, getting away from the original question. It's not about what they'd want, but what we'd consider a great year, right? In that case, I would take 2nd place finishes at every major, over a win and 3 MC's...not even close. If we're talking the year, which we seem to be straying from during the course of debate.

 

[Mango Smash]

I think for some you could consider it a great year without a win. However those like Tiger, Phil, Rory, and many others will have a hard time with that. Younger and lesser known players getting out on tour and making the playoffs or getting a few top 10 or top 5 finishes may consider it a stellar year.

 

[coers]

Defiantly agree with you here Eric, after the prior years of golf for Rickie this defiantly has been a great year for him.

Fowler has had a very good year. Tough to call it great w/o a win.

 

[JB]

100000000% agree.

No question every guy on the tour would. They wouldnt even think about it. Just texted one now, so I will ask if I can post their response.

 

[Slider67]

I think for some you could consider it a great year without a win. However those like Tiger, Phil, Rory, and many others will have a hard time with that. Younger and lesser known players getting out on tour and making the playoffs or getting a few top 10 or top 5 finishes may consider it a stellar year.

I agree with this ^^^^^, if you ask a THP'er hey you made the Morgan cup but didn't win,was it a great year?

Now as for a fans point of view I think it would be different, you always want to see your guy win

 

[WardF]

Of the arguments here I like the one where it is relative to the player and his accomplishments--rookie versus veteran. Example: Getting a tour card with first year earnings (exemptions and qualifiers) and not having to go through web.com etc. It seems some did not think Tigers past year of 5 wins was not great because of the lack of a major.

 

[Slider67]

Wow wardF Bubba just made a reference to that, people said Tiger was in slump, He said I wish I was in a slump

 

[Tadashi70]

Yes he can because not everyone will win and they know it. Finishing in top 125 is enough for some. Three top tens is good. All rounds below par, made cuts.

With 144 players in each field and a less than 1% chance for some to win, just making a good living is enough.

 

[darnall]

As many people have already mentioned, I would think Fowler is going to be the guy who people use to justify a yes answer... if he plays well again in the 4th major of the year, finishes top 5, or especially 2nd again, and fails to win any event, I don't see how anybody can say a one time career PGA winner 2 and a half years removed from his only win didn't have a great year.

It depends on if we judge "Great Year" against other players or against their own previous results. If a journeyman who has struggled to keep his card for 15 years has a year where he makes 85% of the cuts, has several top 10s and is in contention on a few Sundays then heck yes he had a great year. But if Phil Tiger or Rory have those results one year there is no way anybody can say they had a great year.

 

[cjroman]

If most of us could make what anyone in the top 150 is making (Tyrone Van Aswegen at 150 with $444,733 in 24 events) it would be a great year "just playing golf".

I would relish a job where I could make that kind of money on avgerage by just showing up and doing the basics...