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What Happened To The Dominance Of TaylorMade Golf?

SuperStroke
JB said:
TP offerings are a shaft change generally speaking and nobody is going to say boo about a Ping Tour shaft.
Its a marketing difference.
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I agree. I know that Nike is blip. But they have 4 drivers right now. Vapor Speed, PR, Flex, and TW Speed.
 
belmontcc15 said:
Yeah but it does price wise. The average golfer that plays 3 times a week isn't going to drop $450 on the G30
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I wouldn't consider a 3x a week golfer as casual. But I see what you're getting at.
 
blugold said:
I wouldn't consider a 3x a week golfer as casual. But I see what you're getting at.
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I was saying more so score wise. I'm that guy who's out there shooting mid 80s playing 3 times a week while you have others playing daily in the mid 70s
 
I find this an interesting topic and thought a little more about it. What if part of the answer is that TM is doing just fine. *Maybe they have simply been so successful for many years that people are hanging on to product. Add to that a year where a few other companies had a stronger than expected showing. I know that from my anecdotal on-course experiences, I see a lot of TM drivers and woods. And those folks seem really, really happy with their TM clubs. Looking at the Tour, I can't think of a tournament where multiple TM supported pros weren't in contention.

In this vein thinking, as CEO I might say: Don't sweat it team. Stay the course and we will ride out this year and continue our unrivaled success. Others have effectively copied our success, but we are ahead of everyone else and have a great pipeline of new products that will sustain our status as Number 1.

*I don't know if I completely believe this, but there might be some truth here. Everyone can always do better ...
 
mtcowdog said:
I find this an interesting topic and thought a little more about it. What if part of the answer is that TM is doing just fine. *Maybe they have simply been so successful for many years that people are hanging on to product. Add to that a year where a few other companies had a stronger than expected showing. I know that from my anecdotal on-course experiences, I see a lot of TM drivers and woods. And those folks seem really, really happy with their TM clubs. Looking at the Tour, I can't think of a tournament where multiple TM supported pros weren't in contention.

In this vein thinking, as CEO I might say: Don't sweat it team. Stay the course and we will ride out this year and continue our unrivaled success. Others have effectively copied our success, but we are ahead of everyone else and have a great pipeline of new products that will sustain our status as Number 1.

*I don't know if I completely believe this, but there might be some truth here. Everyone can always do better ...
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I think there is some truth to the sustainability of their previous success being nearly impossible to continue. Although the golf ball market, shoe market, putter market, etc say otherwise.

I think the problems exist not just in the die hard golfer thoughts though. This is their 3rd CEO in a couple of years. They have hemorrhaged cash during that time and been in the decline since a number of departures from the company. Still having large success on tour, which normally dictates to large success at the retailers and while there has been some, its nowhere near where it was and it hit very quickly.

SLDR was still the #1 driver sold, but upon new releases hitting for late 2014 and 2015, they have continued to not have the same success.
 
PhillyV said:
I agree. Cobra cut prices on the Fly-Z line today and not one thread of theirs was bumped by someone complaining about resale
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Based on their marketshare the number of people to complain isn't exactly a huge demographic.
 
blugold said:
I agree. I know that Nike is blip. But they have 4 drivers right now. Vapor Speed, PR, Flex, and TW Speed.
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Are you counting Volt Speed as well?
 
JB said:
Here is an interesting one.
Out of current product, Ping has more drivers that are current than TaylorMade does.
Im not suggesting that they have released more overall, but I think people look at brands differently based more on reputation than anything else.

And I am definitely not disputing an inventory issue.
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When you say "current", are you saying G30, G30 SF, and G30 LS versus R15 460, R15 430 & Aeroburner? Are are you combining the R15 in your comparison...in which case I think you could argue combining the three G30 models.

Regardless, I don't think it's necessarily just the amount, but also the fact that you know each one of those drivers won't see it's upgrade for 18-24 months, nor will the price drop. And secondly, even though they're marketed at different players, they are all priced the same (and incidentally also on the lower end of the price spectrum of "new" drivers). It is reputation for sure...but it's reputation for exactly that that has been mentioned. A stable delivery of products without the excessive turnover and extreme depreciation in value
 
Martsy said:
When you say "current", are you saying G30, G30 SF, and G30 LS versus R15 460, R15 430 & Aeroburner? Are are you combining the R15 in your comparison...in which case I think you could argue combining the three G30 models.

Regardless, I don't think it's necessarily just the amount, but also the fact that you know each one of those drivers won't see it's upgrade for 18-24 months, nor will the price drop. And secondly, even though they're marketed at different players, they are all priced the same (and incidentally also on the lower end of the price spectrum of "new" drivers). It is reputation for sure...but it's reputation for exactly that that has been mentioned. A stable delivery of products without the excessive turnover and extreme depreciation in value
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For argument sake, lets say the 430 and 460 are not combined. That means they have the same amount of current drivers.
They also released them relatively close to the same time. If TaylorMade did what Ping did and release the 3rd driver 3 months later, they would have been crucified for it online.

I also dont buy the "wont see an upgrade" anymore. Its not a knock on Ping, they had to get with the times, but they have released drivers every single year and have more coming. Just because they dont name them the G series, does not mean they are not "upgrades" in the truest sense. That would be like saying Callaway should not have been ridiculed (or any other company) when the V series launched, because it was not an upgrade to the Bertha. In fact it was the 3rd Bertha, much like Ping did with LS Tec (adding the 3rd).

I just find it hysterical how companies get a ridiculed and then a pass for doing virtually the exact same thing. The reputation exists from quite a while ago (closer to R9 in my opinion) SLDR was their driver for well over a year. They had a secondary release in JetSpeed (which fared not so well).

The irony in R9 is that it was done just like the Ping series was and they were blasted for it. 3 drivers released 3 separate times all with the label of R9.
 
Do we know much influence Adidas corporate has in TM's decision making and short-term/long-term goals?
 
JB said:
For argument sake, lets say the 430 and 460 are not combined. That means they have the same amount of current drivers.
They also released them relatively close to the same time. If TaylorMade did what Ping did and release the 3rd driver 3 months later, they would have been crucified for it online.

I also dont buy the "wont see an upgrade" anymore. Its not a knock on Ping, they had to get with the times, but they have released drivers every single year and have more coming. Just because they dont name them the G series, does not mean they are not "upgrades" in the truest sense. That would be like saying Callaway should not have been ridiculed (or any other company) when the V series launched, because it was not an upgrade to the Bertha. In fact it was the 3rd Bertha, much like Ping did with LS Tec (adding the 3rd).

I just find it hysterical how companies get a ridiculed and then a pass for doing virtually the exact same thing. The reputation exists from quite a while ago (closer to R9 in my opinion) SLDR was their driver for well over a year. They had a secondary release in JetSpeed (which fared not so well).

The irony in R9 is that it was done just like the Ping series was and they were blasted for it. 3 drivers released 3 separate times all with the label of R9.
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What price did they launch at, and how long until it was discounted? There's the difference and why they're blasted. I'm not saying it's rational, but it is reality

Also, I agree with you on the 460 & 430 counting as one... But I'd use the identical argument for the 3 G30 versions, since they're virtually the same heads and identical shaft offerings.
 
Martsy said:
What price did they launch at, and how long until it was discounted? There's the difference and why they're blasted. I'm not saying it's rational, but it is reality

Also, I agree with you on the 460 & 430 counting as one... But I'd use the identical argument for the 3 G30 versions, since they're virtually the same heads and identical shaft offerings.
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Do you think the decision to discount clubs is made because new releases came out, or because of a glut of products in inventory? I only ask this because it seems like some companies are able to release new products without steeply discounting their "older" equipment. If you're the CEO, would you push to discount gear from 6 months ago that is not strictly "previous generation?" Or was the discounting of gear related to over-extended inventories of certain equipment that wasn't moving -- in TaylorMade's case, I think the JetSpeed is a good example, although I think the Rocketballz Stage II gear also falls into that scenario. The Jetspeed was in the bargain bin long before its replacement hit the shelves.
 
Martsy said:
What price did they launch at, and how long until it was discounted? There's the difference and why they're blasted. I'm not saying it's rational, but it is reality

Also, I agree with you on the 460 & 430 counting as one... But I'd use the identical argument for the 3 G30 versions, since they're virtually the same heads and identical shaft offerings.
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The R9 is the best example, since it was launched the same way as G30. They launched at a lower price and held their price for much of the year. I simply dont believe release schedules have anything to do with sales and lack their of. If they did, TaylorMade would not have outperformed Ping is just about every category up until this year.

However walking into a store and seeing R1, Stage 2, SLDR, SLDR-S, JetSpeed, R15, Aeroburner all priced nearly the same...That is a problem.
 
Thank you to everybody for a great conversation.
 
JB said:
However walking into a store and seeing R1, Stage 2, SLDR, SLDR-S, JetSpeed, R15, Aeroburner all priced nearly the same...That is a problem.
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are you saying those specific drivers all in the same store is a problem, or just that many drivers from the same manufacturer all new-in-plastic is a problem? I don't have an issue with the latter, as long as each driver is designed for a specific golfer and the multiple offerings are meant to cover s broad spectrum.


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caeleric said:
are you saying those specific drivers all in the same store is a problem, or just that many drivers from the same manufacturer all new-in-plastic is a problem? I don't have an issue with the latter, as long as each driver is designed for a specific golfer and the multiple offerings are meant to cover s broad spectrum.


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Options are good.
Options that are yearly releases stuck in inventory all touted as the same thing are not good (meaning those specifically).
 
You can't claim a technology to be ground-breaking only to change it the following year - they're either underestimating the intelligence of their market or they're not so subtle into making us buy a new driver every year. I remember the dominance of the r7 and the Burner, so I think the newer models have good tech behind them also. But if they flood two or three models every year, people will start wondering, "If the tech is so good, why change it every year?" They need to put out fewer models, but with better tech. Not every golfer can afford to buy a new driver every year.
 
Some of the least surprising news I've read recently: TMaG made layoffs today. Link: http://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsn...as-golf-reorganizes-company-lays-staff-11987/

TaylorMade Golf laid off a number of staffers on Wednesday as part of a company-wide reorganization, multiple sources have told Golf News Net.

A company spokesman confirmed the restructuring.

The reorganization aims to allow the company to focus on its highly successful TaylorMade driver, metalwood and iron offerings and adidas golf apparel and footwear.

A source indicated the reorganization is part of a broader strategy. This month, adidas golf hired a new outside creative firm, Venables Bell & Partners, charged with closely aligning its offerings with its parent company’s renewed emphasis on athleticism and performance. It’s unclear what that means for Adams Golf, repositioned in 2015 to focus on the higher-handicap player, and Ashworth, whose hook has been classic, timeless styles for its apparel offerings.

Company CEO David Abeles, who spent 12 years with the clubmaker until 2014, returned to the company in February, assuming the role of president of TaylorMade and Adams Golf. In March, Abeles became CEO when Ben Sharpe left the company after less than a year in the position, citing “personal reasons.”

Since taking over as CEO, Abeles has emphasized the need to position the company to bring equipment innovations to the marketplace while simultaneously continuing the work Sharpe championed in repairing relationships with retailers, many of which were unhappy with the sheer volume of product releases under Sharpe’s predecessor, long-time CEO Mark King, who left in April 2014 to head adidas Group in North America. Before leaving the role, King had predicted TaylorMade-adidas sales could reach $2 billion in 2015. In the end, 2014 sales dropped 28 percent from $1.4 billion in 2013 to just about $1 billion in 2014.

Abeles is working to tighten control of distribution, particularly to Internet-based sales channels, which have been difficult for the industry at large to monitor to ensure their sales, even of newer equipment, weren’t undercutting the brick-and-mortar marketplace or fellow online competitors. The goal is to increase the average sales price of equipment, even if that means moving less product in exchange for supply chain quality control.
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DevRickus said:
Tweets like this are not going to win any favor in my book:

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not trying to start something but just wonder why you don't like the tweet? it's kinda the standard "we're #1 on Tour" tweet isn't it?
 
BuckeyeMark said:
not trying to start something but just wonder why you don't like the tweet? it's kinda the standard "we're #1 on Tour" tweet isn't it?
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Not a fan of any company using the names of other companies in their marketing material. I also am not a fan of putting other Companies down as your way of marketing. Instead market your product and tell people why they should buy it. It's just lazy. And this goes for all companies, not just TM.
 
DevRickus said:
Not a fan of any company using the names of other companies in their marketing material. I also am not a fan of putting other Companies down as your way of marketing. Instead market your product and tell people why they should buy it. It's just lazy. And this goes for all companies, not just TM.
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I don't think making comparisons to competitors is a bad thing unless it devolves into badmouthing the competing product. When selling a product one can cite a competing offering with deference and to the effect of, "Yes, that's good. But here's why we think ours is better..."
 
JohnSinVA said:
I don't think making comparisons to competitors is a bad thing unless it devolves into badmouthing the competing product. When selling a product one can cite a competing offering with deference and to the effect of, "Yes, that's good. But here's why we think ours is better..."
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I agree with you there but I dont see them doing that. Majority of there marketing is all about being #1 on tour and thats fine. Lately, I have seen them start to name other companies and doing things like I quoted above. Like I said, it's not just TM that I am speaking about. Its a pet peeve of mine with any company, I cited it here since thats who we were talking about.
 
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