Neither could I. But you're the lawyer.
Player union bid (NCAA) dealt major blow
ATLGolfer
#ATLClive75
Take out your blue tooth for a moment...
The NFL cannot touch a player until they're out of high school for three years. Canadian football is not a reasonable alternative, nor would arena league football be a reasonable alternative, for the NFL. The pay is incredibly worse. The NCAA is, by far, the best alternative, because, at a minimum, NCAA can provide housing and some meals for players in addition to tuition.
With that said, being the best option does not make it a good option. The NCAA and schools make billions off of these players, and their investments into labor are minimal. The rules are set up to favor the schools and NCAA, and there is zero leverage and bargaining from the players.
The alternative of "don't participate at all if you don't like our one-sided rules" is not an alternative. The current state of college football truly is as close to an employment structure as slavery without literally having slavery.
ATLGolfer
#ATLClive75
I'm not sure I've seen another amateur system that generates multi-billion television and endorsement deals/revenue streams for the schools.
It's only "amateur" when the schools are trying to explain why students shouldn't be paid.
The only point i was trying to make is, lets say a college golf team unionizes and does its collective bargaining to get in on the billions. Those golfers should lose their amateur status.
Thats over simplified, I realize. They get scholarships, but retain amateur status. What these people want is to be compensated, and I think that destroys amateur status.
~Rock
- Thread starter
- #55
So question: when a hot-shot young attorney walks into a law firm, does he demand the partners give him an equal piece of the pie? Aren't those fat-cat partners subjecting him to slavery?
While colleges do make billions off of athletes, remember the vast majority of those billions go to fund the facilities arms race and especially other non-revenue sports. Heck, many big athletic departments also donate to the academic side of the house. Sure, you've got the AD and the head coach/coordinators making big bucks, but they're the exception. The intern in the sports information department, or the GA coach, or the film guy are not living high on the hog on the backs of the athletic slaves.
Additionally, if football players can unionize, what happens when the golf team or women's soccer team sues to get a piece of the pie too?
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tgtt
Well-known member
Are the golf and soccer teams suing for a piece of their pie? Sure, go for it. They deserve it too. If you're meaning they're suing for a piece of the football pie then I'm not following.
They would lose because they don't generate revenue. But they would lose even worse when schools cut programs because football $ had to be spent on football players instead of golf and lacrosse players.
The real answer is for the gazillionaires in the NFL to initiate a proper minor league system. Kids that don't want an education could play football for peanuts and kids that want to be real students could go to school.
FWIW, a 2014 NCAA study (I know, consider the source) found that only 23 of 228 D1 atheletic departments had revenues that exceeded expenses, and of those 23, 16 still received a subsidy from the university.
ATLGolfer
#ATLClive75
The hot-shot lawyer would be able to negotiate a salary. If they couldn't reach an agreement, he could negotiate a salary with a different law firm.
It's kind of like what the NFL does with free agents. It's the opposite of what the NCAA and colleges do with football players.
Wake
Active member
The college player can't transfer? Sure their are stipulations but do young attorneys not have non compete clauses?
ATLGolfer
#ATLClive75
There are no non-compete clauses for attorneys.
College players can certainly transfer -- and sit out for a year and lose a year of eligibility in the process. They can transfer to a smaller school and play immediately, but that's also an unreasonable compromise.
Not exactly apples to apples, even if you're using a career where non-competes are permitted.
Wake
Active member
That actually shocks me.
Law firms need to find someone they can hire to draw up better contracts for them. Not sure where they would find someone like that though.
deuce
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University is big business. Tenure revolves around how many research dollars you bring in, not how many kids you teach. Plus adjuncts are often paid to teach while the big wigs focus on research and grant money. And coaches at public institutions are the highest paid people in the state ... college is turning more into about making money than an education for undergraduates.
It's a sham.
ATLGolfer
#ATLClive75
Not to get too far off track, but the Constitution prevents non-compete clauses for attorneys. Cannot limit a client's access to a particular lawyer.
jspangs
Well-known member
tgtt
Well-known member
I was catching up on all my news this AM and seen IU signed with Adidas for roughly 8 years and 54 mil (Top 5 deal). Also mentioned in the article was UMich 15 for 169 mil deal with Nike (Wow).
I'm not smart enough to figure out how it should work but there is so much money that a "free" ride isn't close to enough compensation. Why should that money be going to other people?
I also thought EA Sports losing a 60 million dollar lawsuit would be a game changer but nothing more has come of it yet.
I'm not smart enough to figure out how it should work but there is so much money that a "free" ride isn't close to enough compensation. Why should that money be going to other people?
I also thought EA Sports losing a 60 million dollar lawsuit would be a game changer but nothing more has come of it yet.
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- #66
I get how it is, I just find it to be complete nonsense considering what educational institutions SHOULD focus on.
deuce
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Harvmp28
Active member
I still adamantly disagree that these athletes should get more. The student athletes at the top institutions are getting more than meals, housing, and tuition. Those values are over 200K for 4 years.
Now let's add in that they get access to the most unbelievable Dieticians, and strength/ conditioning coaches to go along with the most amazing workout facilities in the world(the football teams usually have access to a completely private gym with everything imaginable). The best football coaches to prepare and get them to that next level, by showcasing their abilities on the field. These intangibles don't have a dollar value but the University is providing these things and without them, most of these athletes would never become the players they end up being. IMO of course, but I just can't stand around and think for a second that they are under compensated. If I had D1 talent coming out of high school, everything I've listed is more than I could ever want.
Now let's add in that they get access to the most unbelievable Dieticians, and strength/ conditioning coaches to go along with the most amazing workout facilities in the world(the football teams usually have access to a completely private gym with everything imaginable). The best football coaches to prepare and get them to that next level, by showcasing their abilities on the field. These intangibles don't have a dollar value but the University is providing these things and without them, most of these athletes would never become the players they end up being. IMO of course, but I just can't stand around and think for a second that they are under compensated. If I had D1 talent coming out of high school, everything I've listed is more than I could ever want.
Unfortunately most division 1 athletes have built up so much by their parents, coaches, and recruiters that they are delusional that they will be playing pro ball. They need a reality check. Here are the numbers. Going Pro: Division I Perceptions and Reality - Men's basketball - Perception: 76 percent Reality: 1.2 percent, Women's basketball - Perception: 44 percent Reality: 1.9 percent, Football - Perception: 52 percent - Reality: 1.6 percent, Baseball Perception: 60 percent Reality: 9.4 percent, Men's ice hockey Perception: 63 percent Reality: 0.8 percent, Men's soccer Perception: 46 percentReality: 1.9 percent. Baseball is the only sport where a D1 players chances even approach 10%. They should all be focused on getting a degree..
mattb
Member
I agree. Great to see this tide stemmed some. College football could have lost all meaning here.
Let's be honest, the true meaning of college football is $$$.
ATLGolfer
#ATLClive75
And, it's $$$ based on woefully low wages.
I wish that I could pay my staff in "value" that I can not only control but also pay far less than fair market value for.
You're the lawyer, that's why I'm asking. Could it be legally argued that the scholarship is the reimbursement? I understand that it clouds the issue for walk ons
ATLGolfer
#ATLClive75
The scholarship (and living expenses, to the extent they exist) are the reimbursement.
My point is two things:
First, compared to the amount of revenue that the players generate for the schools, scholarships and living expenses are not fair value.
Second, focusing on the value of the scholarship ignores the actual cost of the scholarship for the schools. Just because another student would need to pay fair market value for a scholarship does not mean that it costs the school fair market value to give the scholarship. It's not the same.
mattb
Member
Not to me it isn't. It doesn't make me any money.