Gender Fairness & Hanidcaps.

[Figo]

Got myself a bit stumped a few days back.
First off the wife is wanting me to look at getting her a first set of clubs :clapp: which is a a bonus.

But then the discussion of Handicaps came up along with the barage of questions.

"Why are women allowed 36 MAX and men only 28 MAX "

(on courses I know well I am almost breaking 100 so probably would be 36 ish myself)

"Why are is the handicaps higher and more forgiving when I would already be playing off of easier tees?"

At which point I had to conclude that I didn't know and we should go back to looking at baby blue golf bags online instead of discussing rules

But now its still bobbing round my noodle so hopefully someone can clear it up..

 

[mpeterson]

I think part of it is how the tees are set up. I know that, at least here, when I'm playing with my wife the forward tees are usually enough for her to end up in about the same place as me on the drive - sometimes a bit ahead or behind. Then she and I are basically playing the same hole from that point. So (and this is just a guess) women's handicaps may tend to be higher in general, and there are a higher percentage of women with a handicap above 28 (or 36 in the US - our max handicaps are 36.6 and 40.4).

 

[Jeanthemachine]

I have no answer for the max handicap question but, as far as the actual handicap is concerned, the handicap is earned based on the tees played and is not, really, gender dependent.

The handicap is a calculation based on the scores recorded and the factors of rating and slope so it is what it is.

 

[mancest]

I think it is due to the distance most men and women hit the ball. In the situation below, while you and your wife are at the same distance off the tee, she will undoubtedly be hitting a longer club into the green than he will be.

Again, it isn't a perfect system but I think this is to try and get equity for all that play the game.

I think part of it is how the tees are set up. I know that, at least here, when I'm playing with my wife the forward tees are usually enough for her to end up in about the same place as me on the drive - sometimes a bit ahead or behind. Then she and I are basically playing the same hole from that point. So (and this is just a guess) women's handicaps may tend to be higher in general, and there are a higher percentage of women with a handicap above 28 (or 36 in the US - our max handicaps are 36.6 and 40.4).

 

[Canadan]

Without getting into any full detail? Because in my experience (on average) courses are not well designed for the typical length of a female golfer, creating inflating handicaps.

Total generalization based on what I see on average and I think it's a damn shame.

 

[staticline]

I think part of it is how the tees are set up. I know that, at least here, when I'm playing with my wife the forward tees are usually enough for her to end up in about the same place as me on the drive - sometimes a bit ahead or behind. Then she and I are basically playing the same hole from that point. So (and this is just a guess) women's handicaps may tend to be higher in general, and there are a higher percentage of women with a handicap above 28 (or 36 in the US - our max handicaps are 36.6 and 40.4).

If her drive is ending up near yours, that probably isn't fair tee usage. Equitable holes would probably have you using similar irons into the green, not similar yardages.

 

[mpeterson]

If her drive is ending up near yours, that probably isn't fair tee usage. Equitable holes would probably have you using similar irons into the green, not similar yardages.

That was the point I was making. Like Dan said, most courses don't set up the forward tees in a position where they play at a playable length for a lot of women. My guess is if you kept the max cap the same for women and men, you'd have a higher percentage of maximum caps for women than men.

 

[Golf 'N Gator]

http://www.popeofslope.com/history/history.html

http://usga.org/news/2011/October/History-Of-Handicapping--Part-I/

 

[InTheRough]

If her drive is ending up near yours, that probably isn't fair tee usage. Equitable holes would probably have you using similar irons into the green, not similar yardages.

But few courses are set up like this. The ladies tees are set up so that bogey golfers are hitting an approach shot on a par 4 hole for their third shot. The better golfers are hitting pin high with an 8 iron on their approach shot (or are landing on the green).

Then I've seen 5'2" tall women crush the ball off the tee over 200 yds. carry. A friend of mine does this.

One local course even has a 4800 yd set of tees rated for women.

The rule of thumb I go by is that I should be hitting a comfortable 8 iron into the average par 4 green for my second shot. That means the average par 4 should be about 350 yds. for my game.

 

[staticline]

I cannot find nothing, via google, that explains why men and women have a different maximum handicap index. It is actually 36 for men and 40 for women.

But, when playing, course rating also has to be taken into account to make play "equitable". Ultimately, it is not about how far each person hits, or what club is used into the green. It is score that matters. When women and men are playing each other, the men's and women's course rating from each tee should be considered.
http://usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-03/

3-5. Players Competing from Different Tees or Men and Women from Same Tees

a. Different Tees: Men vs. Men; Women vs. Women; Women vs. Men
Different tees usually have different Ratings. Because a USGA Course Rating reflects the probable score of a scratch golfer, the higher-rated course is more difficult, and the player playing from the set of tees with the higher USGA Course Rating receives additional stroke(s) equal to the difference between each USGA Course Rating, with .5 or greater rounded upward. The additional stroke(s) are added to the Course Handicap of the player playing from the higher-rated set of tees. (See Decision 3-5/1.)
Example 1: If men playing from the middle tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 70.3 compete against men playing from the back tees where the men's USGA Course Rating is 72.6, the men playing from the back tees will add two strokes (72.6 - 70.3 = 2.3 rounded to 2 ) to their Course Handicap.
Example 2: If women playing from the forward tees from which the women's USGA Course Rating is 73.4 compete against men playing from the middle tees from which the men's USGA Course Rating is 70.9, the women will add three strokes (73.4 - 70.9 = 2.5 rounded to 3) to their Course Handicap.

b. Same Tees: Men vs. Women
Men and women playing from the same set of tees will have different ratings. Because the women's USGA Course Rating usually will be higher, women receive additional stroke(s) equal to the difference between ratings, with .5 or greater rounded upward.
Example: If women playing from the middle tees from which the women's USGA Course Rating is 77.3 compete against men playing from the middle tees from which the men's USGA Course Rating is 70.9, the women will add six strokes (77.3 - 70.9 = 6.4 rounded to 6) to their Course Handicap.
The adjustment must be added to the higher-rated tee players' Course Handicap even if it causes a Course Handicap to exceed the maximum possible for the Slope Rating of the set of tees being played. Alternatively, it is permissible to subtract the extra handicap strokes from the Course Handicap of the player playing from the tees with the lower USGA Course Rating.



And, the hole handicaps for men and women are also usually not 1-for-1. Below is a scorecard for Spyglass. The men/women's handicap is different on 12 of the 18 holes.

 

[InTheRough]

And I love how most courses are not rated for women except on the reds. We wouldn't consider playing from any other tee, right? I mean tee it forward! Sure I'd play from the whites at Spyglass, but I'd use the ladies pars. 16 at 440 yds would be a very long par 4 and I would not want to be hitting a fairway wood onto the green, but as a short par 5? Yeah. I'd hack my way around for a 110 on that course.

But why do that when I can suffer on Chambers Bay?