Slow Play Suggestions

[clam fist]

I was thinking that I was taking 15 minutes longer to walk. My wife says it is 30 to 35 minutes longer. I am going with her answer. I have no sense of time. I think it is faster or at least less annoying to walk with a pull cart when they have the cart path only rule in place. It rained here so much last year that I started walking because of the cart path rule.

 

[Br1an_g]

ive never used a cart in my life. majority of the courses i have played on dont offer them.
i carried for a few years, then invested in an electric trolley. i cant say it speeded up play but it helped my game.
a 'normal' round for me is 4 hours on a saturday. can get round quicker mid week. occasional 4.5-5 hour round.
i dont really have anything to add to the list of things to make it better. its about individuals taking responsibility and having a bit of thought for others on the course. if a group wants to play faster than you, let them through. will make no difference to your round.

 

[Smallville]

I was thinking that I was taking 15 minutes longer to walk. My wife says it is 30 to 35 minutes longer. I am going with her answer. I have no sense of time. I think it is faster or at least less annoying to walk with a pull cart when they have the cart path only rule in place. It rained here so much last year that I started walking because of the cart path rule.

Definitely faster to walk the holes when it's cart path only. But there's still the matter of the distance between the green on this hole and the tee on the next hole. Most courses I play around here it would be faster to walk if it's cart path only. But the one I like the best, when you have good distances between holes on the back nine, not so much.

 

[clam fist]

Definitely faster to walk the holes when it's cart path only. But there's still the matter of the distance between the green on this hole and the tee on the next hole. Most courses I play around here it would be faster to walk if it's cart path only. But the one I like the best, when you have good distances between holes on the back nine, not so much.

We have a course like that nearby. I wouldn't even think of walking it. This year has been dry when I played for the most part and really hot. Cart only when it's hot. I need the breeze when I get that cart rolling.

 

[Sunday_Hacker]

I invite all non-carters down to my neck of the woods to walk a round of golf in the heat and humidty and where the holes can be quite a distance apart from each other and lets see how you keep up with the carters and hold up against the elements.

 

[JPsuff]

I invite all non-carters down to my neck of the woods to walk a round of golf in the heat and humidty and where the holes can be quite a distance apart from each other and lets see how you keep up with the carters and hold up against the elements.

I don't think there'd be a problem if the "carters" would allow time for the walkers to get to the next tee. But the problem with "cart courses" is that since most are using carts, they simply don't have the patience to wait for walkers and that forces the walkers to pick up the pace, usually to an uncomfortable level and that puts a strain on things.

But as far as the distances themselves are concerned, that's not a big deal in and of itself as long as those distances can be traveled at a comfortable pace.


-JP

 

[JB]

I don't think there'd be a problem if the "carters" would allow time for the walkers to get to the next tee. But the problem with "cart courses" is that since most are using carts, they simply don't have the patience to wait for walkers and that forces the walkers to pick up the pace, usually to an uncomfortable level and that puts a strain on things.

But as far as the distances themselves are concerned, that's not a big deal in and of itself as long as those distances can be traveled at a comfortable pace.


-JP

That is because cart golf is faster than walking golf.

 

[JPsuff]

That is because cart golf is faster than walking golf.

LOL!

Or perhaps that cart golfers aren't as patient as walkers.


-JP

 

[Sunday_Hacker]

isnt this just basic common sense? a cart with a motor is faster then a man/woman carrying a bag of golf clubs? and the part I bolded? allow extra time? huh? blows you whole theory that its the same pace walking or riding doesnt it? now by no means am I against walking a course but please dont tell me its just as fast as riding cart.

I don't think there'd be a problem if the "carters" would allow time for the walkers to get to the next tee. But the problem with "cart courses" is that since most are using carts, they simply don't have the patience to wait for walkers and that forces the walkers to pick up the pace, usually to an uncomfortable level and that puts a strain on things.

But as far as the distances themselves are concerned, that's not a big deal in and of itself as long as those distances can be traveled at a comfortable pace.


-JP

 

[JPsuff]

I never said that a cart wasn't faster than a walker in a one on one setting.

What I'm saying is that if people play as a group, then it doesn't matter who walks or who rides because the hole isn't finished until the last person in the group putts out.

But the advent of the "cart course" with its par 5 distances between greens and tees virtually precludes walkers from being able to play along with riders because the riders will arrive at the next tee in seconds while the walkers will take minutes and that takes the concept of playing "as a group" and throws it out the window - especially if the course is empty and there's no one ahead to have to wait for.

So the result is that only the "cart people" can enjoy the course because the walkers are forced to virtually jog just to keep up with their own group and are constantly being forced to "hurry up" and it is THAT reason why "cart courses" and walkers don't mix well.

But the distances between holes in and of themselves is of no consequence.

Your original argument about "my neck of the woods to walk a round of golf in the heat and humidty and where the holes can be quite a distance apart from each other" sounded as if you were defending cart use simply because of those distances.

When I go to Texas, I like to play a course called Avery Ranch which is basically a "cart course" complete with holes that are "quite a distance apart from each other" but they DO allow walkers.

The first time I played there (in the heat and humidity) I passed on a cart and walked. After nine holes, I got a cart, not because of the distances or the heat but because the folks I got paired with had carts and I couldn't keep up with them. But if I had been paired with other walkers, I would have been fine because the pace would have been a walking pace.

But as far as "regular courses" are concerned, I walk all the time and usually get paired with riders and I'm usually the first on the green and the first one to the next tee and that's because (as a walker) I have learned to move very efficiently throughout a course and I don't waste time wandering around as I see many times with riders.

So with the exception of the inequities of mixed groups on "cart courses", I don't see any difference in time between walking and riding and in fact, based on my own experience, I could make a case for walking being faster (or at least more efficient) overall.


-JP

 

[JB]

But as far as "regular courses" are concerned, I walk all the time and usually get paired with riders and I'm usually the first on the green and the first one to the next tee and that's because (as a walker) I have learned to move very efficiently throughout a course and I don't waste time wandering around as I see many times with riders.

So with the exception of the inequities of mixed groups on "cart courses", I don't see any difference in time between walking and riding and in fact, based on my own experience, I could make a case for walking being faster (or at least more efficient) overall.


-JP

Or perhaps it is because you have mentioned that you are a 2 handicap and most golfers are not. I will also say that I can assure you that you could be the most efficient walker in teh world, if we played together and I was riding with nobody in front of us, you would not finish before me. The cart itself going 15 mphs will always beat the walker if the skill levels are similar. And taht has nothing to do with pace of play. Two people with similar skill sets, the cart will go faster than the walker and hence finish the round faster. Heck with nobody in front of us, I would say I would be ahead by 3 holes easy!

 

[bogey_russ]

i am a very fast player... my youngest brother is even faster... and the middle brother is slowww...
ive shot a 78 during a 6+hr round on a course that had 3 groups on every hole
and on the flip side ive shot a 108 in less than 3 hrs with my brother
in the summer i ride... just too hot to walk unless its cart path only
in the winter i usually love walking... the course is usually really empty

that being said... i think awareness is everything
being aware that a group is pressing and having nobody in front of you should be common courtesy to let them play thru

i understand courses need to generate revenue to survive(see 6+hr round above)
but just plain and simple golf ettiquette and being aware of pace of play does wonders to everyones enjoyment of the game

leave the course better than you found it and be like a ninja or something along those lines

 

[Smallville]

I invite all non-carters down to my neck of the woods to walk a round of golf in the heat and humidty and where the holes can be quite a distance apart from each other and lets see how you keep up with the carters and hold up against the elements.

At least you wouldn't have to worry about playing through. Several could get by on a busy day!

 

[JPsuff]

Or perhaps it is because you have mentioned that you are a 2 handicap and most golfers are not. I will also say that I can assure you that you could be the most efficient walker in teh world, if we played together and I was riding with nobody in front of us, you would not finish before me. The cart itself going 15 mphs will always beat the walker if the skill levels are similar. And taht has nothing to do with pace of play. Two people with similar skill sets, the cart will go faster than the walker and hence finish the round faster. Heck with nobody in front of us, I would say I would be ahead by 3 holes easy!

Again, I have no argument with the physics of your statement.

But in your scenario, once you've moved three holes ahead, we wouldn't actually be playing "together" anymore would we?

See, that's the equalizer. If a walker and a rider are in the same group and the goal is to play AS a group, then in a practical sense neither the rider nor the walker would be any faster.


-JP

 

[Esox]

If I don't have a cart, it is difficult for me to play the game the way I want. A 44 oz. iced tea is too unwieldy to carry, and my pants tend to slip down when I'm constantly having to dig in my pocket for cigarettes. The latter leads to slow play due to the constant pulling up and re-tucking of shirt. In recent years I've found walking leads to excessive sweatiness, shortness of breath, and general irritability. A cart also provides the opportunity to speed away from clouds of mosquitoes (especially important this year in Cheeseland), and other more dangerous stinging insects. It allows for the speeding to on course rest rooms for the release of earlier mentioned iced tea. Plus that basket in back can hold all kinds of vital equipment.

Carts are an important part of the game.

Kevin

 

[bogey_russ]

If I don't have a cart, it is difficult for me to play the game the way I want. A 44 oz. iced tea is too unwieldy to carry, and my pants tend to slip down when I'm constantly having to dig in my pocket for cigarettes. The latter leads to slow play due to the constant pulling up and re-tucking of shirt. In recent years I've found walking leads to excessive sweatiness, shortness of breath, and general irritability. A cart also provides the opportunity to speed away from clouds of mosquitoes (especially important this year in Cheeseland), and other more dangerous stinging insects. It allows for the speeding to on course rest rooms for the release of earlier mentioned iced tea. Plus that basket in back can hold all kinds of vital equipment.

Carts are an important part of the game.

Kevin

carts rule! well until a heavy rain brings out the cartpath only signs

 

[JB]

Again, I have no argument with the physics of your statement.

But in your scenario, once you've moved three holes ahead, we wouldn't actually be playing "together" anymore would we?

See, that's the equalizer. If a walker and a rider are in the same group and the goal is to play AS a group, then in a practical sense neither the rider nor the walker would be any faster.


-JP

You have said a few times on this forum in other threads that walking is as fast as riding for a number of reasons. But this answer sums it all up. Only because the rider IS WAITING FOR THE WALKER in the same group.

YOu rarely see a person that prefers a cart look down on people that walk. Yet you certainly see that from the other side, heck its in this thread. This is the exact reason that many give when they are speaking of elitism and not playing the game. The stuffy mentality that it is my way (the old way) or no way. Im not directing this at JP, because as he has stated, he does not care one way or the other. But the elitism that people are referring to is still there and the stuffy feeling does keep people from the learning this game.

JP,
Do you get any other magazines, because Golf Digest and Golf have said that it was not them. I am really curious about the article, I love testing stats and such.

 

[JPsuff]

JP,
Do you get any other magazines, because Golf Digest and Golf have said that it was not them. I am really curious about the article, I love testing stats and such.

The only mags I subscribe to are those two. However, when I travel I sometimes pick up some golf mags (other than those) at the airport so it may very well have been one of them.

It wasn't an "article" per se but rather it was one of those blurb things on those pages that have several quick stories all on the same page. The whole thing couldn't have been more than two or three paragraphs long, but I distinctly remember them pointing out the results in a sort of "you're not gonna believe this" kind of way.

But the results they talked about didn't surprise me because "average" golfers make many mistakes and multiplied by four people in a group, the riders are taking just as much time recovering from their mistakes as are the walkers, so in the end the overall time spent on the course is about the same.

One other thing that I find interesting.

As I've said before, I basically grew up playing the courses at Bethpage and my two favorites are the Black and the Red courses.

The Black course does not allow motorized carts at all while the Red allows them. After having played both courses for the better part of twenty plus years, I can honestly say that a typical round on the Black takes about 4 1/2 to 5 hours while a typical round on the Red however can often exceed 5 hrs.

So the conclusion I draw from that is that a "mixed bag" of riders and walkers clogs things up more so that "all walkers" (and I must presume "all riders"). So it's the mixture of the two rather than one or the other which causes the biggest problem.


Just an observation.


-JP

 

[Esox]

Are those that choose to ride somehow less golfers than those who choose to walk?

Kevin

 

[JB]

But the results they talked about didn't surprise me because "average" golfers make many mistakes and multiplied by four people in a group, the riders are taking just as much time recovering from their mistakes as are the walkers, so in the end the overall time spent on the course is about the same.

I am sure I am reading this wrong, but what I see when I read that is that both are making the same mistakes. So once again, how are the walkers as fast as the riders? It just is not possible that if two golfers start on the same hole and are equal playing abilities that the walker can keep up with the rider. Or am I reading that wrong again and seeing that riders are making mistakes and walkers are not?

And the debate that you cant go anywhere anyway because there are groups in front just does not work in the scenario we are discussing. Playing as a group is a great thing, but playing as a group when I am riding and with walkers is frankly quite painful. Because we spend QUITE a lot of time waiting on them to get to their ball.

Im going to contact a few more magazines on Monday in regards to the "piece" that you speak of. I just cannot fathom a magazine doing a test with a rider and a walker together and nobody in front of them and them finishing at the same time. Not if skill levels were any where near each other. I made a list of 10 other magazines, so that will be a good start.

 

[JPsuff]

Are those that choose to ride somehow less golfers than those who choose to walk?

Kevin

I don't care to comment on that, but I can say that I don't play nearly as well when I have to ride as when I'm walking and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who feels that way. But I will say this: After playing this game for forty years, it's my opinion that walkers as a group tend to take the game more seriously than riders overall.

I'm sure that every rider here is going to tell me I'm wrong and that I don't know what I'm talking about, but that's the way I see it.


Fire away!


-JP

 

[Sunday_Hacker]

thats sure how it come across doesnt it...

Are those that choose to ride somehow less golfers than those who choose to walk?

Kevin

 

[Bridges]

So i guess because Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, average joe and every other person in the world rides in a cart every once in a while or all the time, even though they are all capable of walking, makes them take the game less serious just because they are in a cart?

 

[JB]

Are those that choose to ride somehow less golfers than those who choose to walk?

Kevin

This goes back to my theory about elitism and why people stay away from the game. If you look over this thread and others on boards like it. Walkers seem to look down on those that take a cart. Yet you will never hear a peep out of those that ride for the most part other than the slow play aspect. Elitism and stuffiness at its finest.

I don't care to comment on that, but I can say that I don't play nearly as well when I have to ride as when I'm walking and I'm sure that I'm not the only one who feels that way. But I will say this: After playing this game for forty years, it's my opinion that walkers as a group tend to take the game more seriously than riders overall.

I'm sure that every rider here is going to tell me I'm wrong and that I don't know what I'm talking about, but that's the way I see it.


Fire away!


-JP

No need to fire away. If you were to read all your posts here I think people can take what they want from that. In my opinion its a holier than thou attitude overall and stuffiness with opinions like that (not JP, but that opinion) that say everything.

I can tell you this, I take this game very seriously, and I also play better in a cart.

Does anybody else think that this is the same type of thoughts that say "Good players play blades and players irons" and "the game has been ruined by technology" and "everything was better way back when".

These are the exact thoughts of stuffiness that makes this game and the people that play it disgusting at times to so many.


EDIT: JP,
The ironic part is that your beliefs in general are very much DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER, and you have said variations of things such as that in the debate area. Yet, this is exactly what you are doing here. Hmmmm.

 

[JPsuff]

EDIT: JP,
The ironic part is that your beliefs in general are very much DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER, and you have said variations of things such as that in the debate area. Yet, this is exactly what you are doing here. Hmmmm.

On the contrary, I'm simply making an observation.

"Riders" include all types of people who play this game and that list includes people who don't take golf all that seriously, people who play occasionally, people who play "for a goof", people who play in company outings and other such less-than-serious reasons as well as those who do indeed take the game seriously. The existence of a cart makes golf more attractive to the former because they either see them as a means of getting the "full experience" or because it makes it more fun and I believe that if carts were not available, many (if not most) of those folks would pass on golf altogether.

I simply do not see the same "casual golfers" walking nearly as much as I see them in carts. But please try to understand that that's not the same as saying that there aren't serious golfers who use carts.

The availability of carts simply makes it easier for less-than-serious people to play the occasional round and if carts weren't available, I don't think many would bother. So "as a group" - meaning every single person who has ever played golf and used a golf cart - I think you'd find more less-than-serious people than you would if walking were the only way to play.

Put another way, walking simply attracts less "casual" players overall.

Do you understand what I'm saying now?


-JP