PODCAST Forgiving Golf Clubs: Golf Unfiltered Episode 275

[golfunfiltered]

On today’s episode, Adam discusses whether or not there is a benefit to playing more forgiving golf clubs. He also incorporates a few comments from The Hackers Paradise member forum, as well as three qualities you should look to improve in your game.

Continue reading...

 

[JB]

I enjoyed this listen. It kind of talks about both sides of the forgiveness spectrum and our minds haha.

 

[Canadan]

Haven’t had a chance to catch this episode yet. Hoping to this afternoon.

it’s a topic I feel very strongly about. Looking forward to it!!

 

[Canadan]

"feel is a really big element in forgiveness that gets overlooked"

I like that 'forgiveness' is not simply a representation of accuracy. While I can appreciate the idea that our primary goal is hitting the ball at the target we select, not many folks like to hit one that feels like garbage yet still goes where we want it to.

The quality of strike, at least from a feedback perspective, might be one of the most critical elements of confidence construction.

 

[JB]

The quality of strike, at least from a feedback perspective, might be one of the most critical elements of confidence construction.

I could not agree more with this. Its also performance critical, but in terms of feel, so much has been able to be done the last few years to assist in making larger clubs sound better, feel better and shorten the gap.

 

[Canadan]

I could not agree more with this. Its also performance critical, but in terms of feel, so much has been able to be done the last few years to assist in making larger clubs sound better, feel better and shorten the gap.

I've said for two years now that we are in a new era of 'forgiveness' where the big heads don't have to sound like something totally different than our beloved bladed pure strikes. Cobra proved that with the F9 irons as did Mizuno with Chromoly (and probably Cally with Epic Forged). The list is constantly growing and I LOVE that.

 

[jdtox]

Going to check in on this one soon as it hits near and dear haha

 

[JB]

Going to check in on this one soon as it hits near and dear haha

You have had quite a journey here.

 

[Templet0n]

Great listen and good points.

I about jumped out of my seat when you said moi doesn’t matter.. haha.

or rather that understanding MOI doesn’t matter to start. But I agree.

 

[Junkyard]

I enjoyed this episode. Having just gone through the process of being fitted for the second time earlier this year I can wholeheartedly appreciate both sides of the opinion/argument.

I was a bit concerned when I first selected my new irons that they might be a bit of a struggle for me as they looked very blade-like compared to my previous irons. Having played with them for a couple of months now I have adjusted to the new look, and am enjoying the benefits of the new technology, including the "hidden" assistance.

Sure, a proper fitting is all about analyzing data such as ball flight, distance, dispersion, speed, spin, etc. but the most important part a huge portion of a fitting is the player's comfort/confidence in the club. Sometimes the outcome of a fitting is not necessarily the longest club, but rather ruling out a model or models that just don't feel good to a particular player. It's kind of like test driving a vehicle before you buy it; you might just find something about it that just doesn't suit you. Given the cost of equipment, I'd sure want to know that I just don't like the feel of a club before spending my hard earned money...

 

[JB]

Great listen and good points.

I about jumped out of my seat when you said moi doesn’t matter.. haha.

or rather that understanding MOI doesn’t matter to start. But I agree.

Haha. This is an ongoing discussion @golfunfiltered and I have had with some R&D people.
MOI 100% matters. The problem is it has become a catch all for the word forgiveness, which is not really all that helpful.

 

[Templet0n]

Haha. This is an ongoing discussion @golfunfiltered and I have had with some R&D people.
MOI 100% matters. The problem is it has become a catch all for the word forgiveness, which is not really all that helpful.

Totally agree. Which I am sure is why he basically said "settle down folks let me explain".

I will say, I as far as CG goes. I think in some cases with new clubs vertical CG has gotten a little too high to be practical. The ping I500 comes to mind.. The VCG is so high it destroys any forgiveness may have existed..

 

[JB]

Totally agree. Which I am sure is why he basically said "settle down folks let me explain".

I will say, I as far as CG goes. I think in some cases with new clubs vertical CG has gotten a little too high to be practical. The ping I500 comes to mind.. The VCG is so high it destroys any forgiveness may have existed..

I agree with that completely. I know it’s by design. It became an arms race for some companies to claim high MOI numbers.

 

[Bryndom]

Haha. This is an ongoing discussion @golfunfiltered and I have had with some R&D people.
MOI 100% matters. The problem is it has become a catch all for the word forgiveness, which is not really all that helpful.

I think it highlights again the importance of fittings. I've never taken stock and don't really agree with the labels of super game improvement (forgiveness) and GI irons. Really think it varies so much from individual to individual. What was said attributed to @JB I think is spot on - play the clubs that give you the most confidence that good things will happen. These will invariably be the best performing for you

 

[JB]

I think it highlights again the importance of fittings. I've never taken stock and don't really agree with the labels of super game improvement (forgiveness) and GI irons. Really think it varies so much from individual to individual. What was said attributed to @JB I think is spot on - play the clubs that give you the most confidence that good things will happen. These will invariably be the best performing for you

Yeah I am a big believer in playing whatever makes someone happy. Be it right or wrong for top performance.

With that said, in a forum setting like this, where everybody is trying to eek out every last bit of ball speed, spin numbers, etc etc, we then go with something that may not do that very thing.

 

[golfunfiltered]

For me, the biggest eye-opener was the forgiving wedges. I couldn't believe how they "fixed" my short game at a time when I couldn't hit a wedge to save my life.

 

[Canadan]

For me, the biggest eye-opener was the forgiving wedges. I couldn't believe how they "fixed" my short game at a time when I couldn't hit a wedge to save my life.

You could tell, based on the podcast, that you are way more sold on playing forgiving wedges vs forgiving irons hahaha

 

[JB]

For me, the biggest eye-opener was the forgiving wedges. I couldn't believe how they "fixed" my short game at a time when I couldn't hit a wedge to save my life.

That is super interesting, because one would think that the further you got away from the green, it would continue to help, right? Or is there a bit of "Im further away I dont expect the result"?

We have a video coming up comparing forgiving wedges to muscle back that was pretty nuts.

 

[golfunfiltered]

You could tell, based on the podcast, that you are way more sold on playing forgiving wedges vs forgiving irons hahaha

I've had a weird tendency of hitting really good shots with blades, but far more consistent shots with cavity backs.

 

[golfunfiltered]

That is super interesting, because one would think that the further you got away from the green, it would continue to help, right? Or is there a bit of "Im further away I dont expect the result"?

We have a video coming up comparing forgiving wedges to muscle back that was pretty nuts.

I agree, it's been a weird dynamic. However, replacing my 4-iron (#RIP) with a hybrid has probably saved me two shots a round.

 

[JB]

I agree, it's been a weird dynamic. However, replacing my 4-iron (#RIP) with a hybrid has probably saved me two shots a round.

I can't wait for you to have a bag of headcovers.

 

[Canadan]

I've had a weird tendency of hitting really good shots with blades, but far more consistent shots with cavity backs.

I have friends locally who have the same perspective. For one of them specifically, it's 100% mental. He has to play a blade profile or he swings like hot trash. It is as though knowing that forgiveness is there directly encourages his brain to swing like garbage hahaha

 

[Templet0n]

There is much I think is misleading in just the term "forgiving". What is forgiving for one is not always forgiving for another. There are a few aspects that I guess you could call universal. Perimeter weighting and maybe thinner faces to produce speed and maybe longer blade lengths. But not all golfers that are even high handicaps need thick soles, or a ton of offset, etc..

 

[JB]

There is much I think is misleading in just the term "forgiving". What is forgiving for one is not always forgiving for another. There are a few aspects that I guess you could call universal. Perimeter weighting and maybe thinner faces to produce speed and maybe longer blade lengths. But not all golfers that are even high handicaps need thick soles, or a ton of offset, etc..

This is pretty true, although I think you can make the case for sole size being pretty universal as handicaps increase. A good example of this is the sand or thick rough, where terrain will in some ways mimic a not so repeatable swing. Almost always, the larger sole will provide aid there.

 

[golfunfiltered]

I played Olympia Fields the week before the BMW, and lemme tell you: I wish I had all hybrids that day.