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darthweasel

darthweasel

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someone said this in a thread...and I don't want them to feel like this is directed at them and did not want to derail that thread...thought I would bring it up here

"I don't get this obsession with blowing through the course. How about enjoy your time on the course and maybe meet some new people!"

Now, I am not a particularly fast walker. Age and injuries, including but not limited to plantar fasciitis and having been hit by a car that resulted in some severely altered L4 and L5 discs and arthritis kicking into gear have slowed me down. With that said, I walk, when just "strolling", not fast walking, a 15 minute mile give or take.

When I play 18, I generally prefer to walk and fitbit tells me I walk about 5 miles. That is an hour and fifteen minutes worth of walking...not a ton. How to we get to 4-1/2 and 5 hour rounds from there?

It does not take a terribly long time to hit a ball with a stick, and sometimes the ball even approximates the distance and direction I was attempting to hit it. The last couple years I was frequently able to play rounds with nobody in my group and nobody in front of me. I am quite comfortable saying that with absolutely zero hurry or rush, according to Golfpad my rounds are well under 2 hours in those circumstances. The longest round was on Christmas Eve when looking for plugged balls was a thing...and it was 1:52. It felt longer.

When with a group, I have no need to rush. I can walk at a comfortable pace, take the appropriate time to determine my club and make my swing. In groups of people who play ready golf, don't use Aimpoint...a 3 hour round is not only easily attainable it is a bit slow.

Golf, like poker, is a great deal of fun when the game is moving. When under the gun opens, gets two calls, the cutoff re-raises, the small blind calls and the big blind sits there pondering his deuce-seven off suit and what to do with it for five minutes...poker sucks. The golf version is the people who walk up to a wide open par five and need three minutes to figure out what club to hit...

I really enjoy a reasonably paced round. I despise the 5 hour rounds because someone wants to "enjoy our time on the course" where it means they take 15-20 minutes to play a hole...they are not ready when it is their turn...can't figure out what club to hit...have to look above and below and beside the hole before leaving it 15' past the hole...

For many of us, there is zero obsession about "blowing through the course" and much more "golf is fun when I can walk to my ball, hit it, repeat".

The worst is when you go for a dewsweeper time...the very people noted for playing in times I would consider fast...and there is someone who thinks playing at pace is "blowing through he course" locks down the entire %^&* course for a day. It only takes one group to back things up for the full day.

If you are the "I think 4-1/2 hours is a reasonable pace"...good for you. Take an afternoon time that doesn't slow up every single person who wants to play at a reasonable pace, not the early morning times.

Most courses in my experience have something along the lines of "Your place is directly behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind you". Well worth thinking about.

Rant over.


for now...
 
I also walk (push) for my morning rounds 4x5 times a week. I like to do it as part of my fitness routine. I usually only play 9 in the mornings. That said I routinely finish in 1.5 hours. IDK if my course is just spaced out or if it's the hills slowing me down but unless I'm jogging to each ball and hitting them out of breath that's usually the time. I play enough to know I'm not finishing in anything under 1:20 and that's if I'm really moving. I prefer the 1.5 pace. I want to play good golf not rushed golf.

If you want to play rushed golf that's fine. Hopefully, you can at certain points in time. But don't rush someone keeping the pace the course sets. Take it up with them instead.
 
I fail to see why it should ever take more than four hours for a round of golf. Over the weekend, I played a round with a father and son and another single. Each of those guys hit multiple mulligans from both the tee and out in the middle of the hole. They would be on their phones, either talking, texting or looking at stuff while they could have been getting ready for their next shot. It was only when the green would clear that they would begin figuring out which club to pull. All of this behavior added up to an almost 5 hour round. I am sure that if I would have said something, they would have thought I was some ill tempered guy. From their perspective, I am sure that they were just enjoying a leisurely afternoon on the course, relaxing. It is just ridiculous from my perspective, though.
 
I played Pinehurst #2 pushing my cart with another doing the same in the first group out and we finished in under 3 hours. I shocked my wife when I was home that early.

Yesterday we played it with 4 of us walking, two being our wives who are high handicappers and don't hit it as far. We were around the 8th group out. We were on the 8th tee and one of the marshals said we were ahead of pace even though we were not keeping up with the group in front of us and the 4-some behind us was pushing. We ended up getting to 14 and we were waiting on every shot after that and it was right on the money at 4.5 hours. It was the first time our wives had played #2 so it took a little longer than normal for them as they were not familiar with the course and there were a lot of shots into the junk on the sides or the bunkers meaning more than one shot to get out. It was also hot and humid but when we were done, one of the ladies said she knew it was 4.5 hours, but it felt WAY faster. The wives are not as good at moving forward when you are not in the line-of-fire as us two guys, but they did o.k.
 
When I walk 9 it's 1h and change if I'm just plugging along by myself. When I post about it, I get about 1.5 hours. If I'm solo 18 on a cart even with posting on a short course I'm less than 3 hours without being at all rushed.

I don't run, I don't like to wait though either. Hitting the golf ball takes 10-12 seconds (if my video's can be believed) multiplied by how many hits you do. The vast majority of the time on the course is just me wandering from where I hit the ball to where the ball ended up.
 
Playing "fast" is easy when it's just you, but in 30+ years I don't know that I've ever had a round under 4 hours playing with a foursome. Just too much time looking for balls, or chasing a ball bladed out of a trap and 30 yards across the green, stopping for a dog at the turn, waiting for the next fairway to clear because you're in the wrong one (and vice versa), etc. That's playing ready golf with no honors and no other jerking around, just golf. But then getting it over with quickly is not a top priority for me so it's not something I really keep track off unless we're moving really fast or really slow, which would be less than 4 hours or more than 5.
 
brisk-walking-yes-again.gif
 
darthweasel said:
they are not ready when it is their turn...can't figure out what club to hit...have to look above and below and beside the hole before leaving it 15' past the hole...
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This. This covers all of it and is the reason why.

All of that just by themselves. Imagine all of that with multiple people and it adds up sooooo fast. My favorite is when it's a group of four and every single one of them won't even get out of the cart or get ready or even walk over to their ball until the farthest one back has completed their entire process. So you have to wait for that four different times. It's so bad
 
By no means am i a slow player, and can blow through a round of golf in well under 4 hrs if the course is open ahead. That said, i have no burning desire to set any records for pace of play either. If it's a slow day, i go with the flow. I just make sure if play is slow, it's not because of me. Other than that, I get out there and the goal is to enjoy the game and the group i'm playing with. I'll be dipped if i'm going to get wound up over how long it takes to play a round of golf... ever.
 
darthweasel said:
Now, I am not a particularly fast walker. ... I walk, when just "strolling", not fast walking, a 15 minute mile give or take.
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Then you are a particularly fast walker. The average walking speed for an adult male is ±3 MPH, which makes for a ±20 minute mile.

I'm 6'4" tall, with relatively long legs, and in reasonably good health. I generally walk faster than most people I know. Last year, when I was participating in the 10k steps/day challenge, here, I averaged ±17 minute miles, IIRC. A bit under sixteen minutes if I was pushing it.

When I was still working I'd take a 1½ mile walk every day after lunch. I did not dawdle. I moved right along. I'd complete that in about twenty-five minutes. That works out to a seventeen minute mile.
 
tech has slowed the pace of play for most beginners.

Range finders and gps app have made club selection more complex me thinks. Most beginning golfers would be be better off estimating club selection off 50, 100, 150, and 200 yard stakes most course had 10-15 years ago.
 
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"...something along the lines of "Your place is directly behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind you".

Yes- all well and good for the ideal scenario. Golf is NOT an ideal scenario. I have played with 'Rabbits', played behind 'Rabbits' and played ahead of 'Rabbits'.

If I play behind a group of Rabbits who want to get back to the clubhouse so as not to miss the breakfast special and be home to lay on the couch by 9:30AM and want to play in 2 hours, let them go. It isn't MY responsibility to keep up with those nuts.

Playing WITH a Rabbit who has no place to go is bad enough. They will be moving around, grabbing the tee box and hitting when it is not safe (If they were to actually hit it straight in the first place), then running off before everyone else is finished, only to have to wait (BARELY) for the group ahead to be off the green. On more than one occasion, a Rabbit was hitting onto a Par 3 WHILE the guy was putting the flag back in.

Playing ahead of Rabbits is probably the worst. They try to get you to speed up with their antics when there is no place to go. It makes for a terrible round always worrying about some idiot hitting on to the green while your putting the flag back in (for example).

In general, on a public course after the first few groups are out, that's it- pace is pretty much set for the day. Some courses will have GPS tracking and let you know that your area bit behind. It makes you feel guilty- until you realize the group in front of you must be behind, and the group in front of them, and the group in front of them, and so on. Most don't, so you are locked into whatever the slowest group ahead of you is doing. Even if they aren't "Falling behind". Somewhere, somehow, things got backed up a bit and everyone is now at that pace. And since many courses will double stack, even those rabbits are caught up after 9 holes to whatever the pace is on the back.

Unless you have the luxury of a private club or similar, Your 'job' is to maintain whatever the pace is for that time of day and conditions. Courses that jam 7,8 minute tee times onto the sheets are just fooling themselves that they are going to make more money. Word gets out they get backed up by an hour by mid morning, nobody wants to play there and 5 hours becomes SOP
 
The last two threads on this topic had me curious to know my pace when there was nobody ahead of me since I genuinely didn't know. Outside of tournament golf, I play my rounds in the afternoon or evenings since that is what works with my usual schedule. I had last week off so in order for me to find out, I booked a few tee times throughout the days, some solo, and some with other golfers.

When playing alone early in the morning, I was regularly finishing 9 holes in 1:10 - 1:20 depending on number of wayward shots and how long I had to wait on groups ahead (I was only able to book the 3rd tee time of the day). My scores were around my average, and I walked with a push cart, as usual. When I was paired up with other golfers, the tee times were always in the afternoon or evenings and the pace of play was much slower. Much more time was spent waiting on tee boxes, resulting in 9 holes being completed between 1:50 and 2:10.

It was really interesting to see how much time I spend waiting compared to an early morning round!
 
I don’t think the speed/pace one plays a solo 9 or 18, cart or walking, has a whole lot to do with pace of play. Pace of play involves the dynamics of how a group of four players moves and plays a course.

Bud and Mel have the first tee time and a cart. They finish 18 in 90 minutes. Big deal.
 
darthweasel said:
someone said this in a thread...and I don't want them to feel like this is directed at them and did not want to derail that thread...thought I would bring it up here

"I don't get this obsession with blowing through the course. How about enjoy your time on the course and maybe meet some new people!"

Now, I am not a particularly fast walker. Age and injuries, including but not limited to plantar fasciitis and having been hit by a car that resulted in some severely altered L4 and L5 discs and arthritis kicking into gear have slowed me down. With that said, I walk, when just "strolling", not fast walking, a 15 minute mile give or take.

When I play 18, I generally prefer to walk and fitbit tells me I walk about 5 miles. That is an hour and fifteen minutes worth of walking...not a ton. How to we get to 4-1/2 and 5 hour rounds from there?

It does not take a terribly long time to hit a ball with a stick, and sometimes the ball even approximates the distance and direction I was attempting to hit it. The last couple years I was frequently able to play rounds with nobody in my group and nobody in front of me. I am quite comfortable saying that with absolutely zero hurry or rush, according to Golfpad my rounds are well under 2 hours in those circumstances. The longest round was on Christmas Eve when looking for plugged balls was a thing...and it was 1:52. It felt longer.

When with a group, I have no need to rush. I can walk at a comfortable pace, take the appropriate time to determine my club and make my swing. In groups of people who play ready golf, don't use Aimpoint...a 3 hour round is not only easily attainable it is a bit slow.

Golf, like poker, is a great deal of fun when the game is moving. When under the gun opens, gets two calls, the cutoff re-raises, the small blind calls and the big blind sits there pondering his deuce-seven off suit and what to do with it for five minutes...poker sucks. The golf version is the people who walk up to a wide open par five and need three minutes to figure out what club to hit...

I really enjoy a reasonably paced round. I despise the 5 hour rounds because someone wants to "enjoy our time on the course" where it means they take 15-20 minutes to play a hole...they are not ready when it is their turn...can't figure out what club to hit...have to look above and below and beside the hole before leaving it 15' past the hole...

For many of us, there is zero obsession about "blowing through the course" and much more "golf is fun when I can walk to my ball, hit it, repeat".

The worst is when you go for a dewsweeper time...the very people noted for playing in times I would consider fast...and there is someone who thinks playing at pace is "blowing through he course" locks down the entire %^&* course for a day. It only takes one group to back things up for the full day.

If you are the "I think 4-1/2 hours is a reasonable pace"...good for you. Take an afternoon time that doesn't slow up every single person who wants to play at a reasonable pace, not the early morning times.

Most courses in my experience have something along the lines of "Your place is directly behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind you". Well worth thinking about.

Rant over.


for now...
Click to expand...
I agree with most of what you posted. Pace of of play is important to some, however I'm not one of them.

Do I like slow play? No not really, but I don't let it bother me when it does happen. I have to say I don't run into slow play very often. Maybe 3-4 times a year. Then again, I never play on weekends.

I would never pick a time of day to play just to satisfy others. My game, my money, my time.

I'm not a slow player, and I'm not a fast player. I'm a what ever the pace is the day I'm playing type of player.

If I'm not rushed, or the course is empty, I am comfortable with a cart, and a 3+/- hour round. I played last week in a 117*f temp. Had the whole course to myself. Took me right at 4 hours, since I took a lot of shaded, rest stops. Went through 9 bottles of water while I was at it.

Of course at 70 years old, I'm not as quick at anything like I was when I was younger. A good, long life has slowed me down.

I do find it ironic that two of the top topics in golf are slow play, and growing the game. It's kind of an oxymoron to me. Bringing more players into the game, who will play at various speeds, wouldn't speed up play to my way of thinking.

I've said it before. I won't blame others for my poor play, and I think "some" of those complainers about slow play, are actually playing too fast. (JMHO)

No, when I play golf, I just show up, put forth my best effort, and blend in with those already on the course. Golf at my level of play is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. My pre-shot routine, when it's my turn to hit, helps to make it fun.
 
Duffer Seamus said:
Then you are a particularly fast walker. The average walking speed for an adult male is ±3 MPH, which makes for a ±20 minute mile.

I'm 6'4" tall, with relatively long legs, and in reasonably good health. I generally walk faster than most people I know. Last year, when I was participating in the 10k steps/day challenge, here, I averaged ±17 minute miles, IIRC. A bit under sixteen minutes if I was pushing it.

When I was still working I'd take a 1½ mile walk every day after lunch. I did not dawdle. I moved right along. I'd complete that in about twenty-five minutes. That works out to a seventeen minute mile.
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I had never looked up the stats. Good to know. We had a pretty funny interchange on my family chat where I posted something along the lines of "she almost got me!" showing our fitbit leader board where I eked out a 102,000 step win over the person in second place...and someone else pointed out "the only time I get more steps that Drew is when his fitbit breaks". made me laugh.

but the point being there is a decent amount of research that indicates repetitive tasks...which I would include walking...improve economy of motion which in turn could improve speed. I have never felt like a fast walker but good to know I apparently am...even when taking it easy lol
 
When I look at pace of play, I look at the time golfers spend doing other things when they should be hitting their shot. I don't believe that a round of golf should be a race, but in the same breath there is a certain expectation of flow.

For example, last weekend we were the first group out on our opening nine, and four of us walked in approximately 1:45. When we made the turn we got behind the last group of the opening times, three males and one female. One of the men was playing the blue tees (which for us is the tips) the other two were playing the whites and the lady was playing the reds.

They arrived at the tee just as we were finishing up on nine green, so we went into the clubhouse to get some drinks. When we exited the clubhouse several minutes later they were still on the tee box; two of the four had hit. Our tenth hole is a reachable par 5, and I hit a decent drive which left me just over 150 out so I had to wait for the green to clear before hitting my approach. The other three in my group had laid up at this point.

Foursome ahead moves to the next tee, I hit my approach. Three others have to chip onto the green, and four of us have to putt out. The group ahead is just leaving the tee as we put the pin back into the hole. Collectively we hit 13 shots in the time four of them teed off. That's what I mean when I say there needs to be flow.
 
Hit the ball and go find it. The bs etc I see in between shots is ufb. Covid golf , oh I'm back after layoff lol
 
I got paired with a like-minded twosome this weekend. The course turned on the sprinklers since there was at least one empty tee time slot so we had to wait until a little after our tee time when they were turned off. We had at least one open hole in front of us for probably 7 holes and it was glorious. It was the weirdest thing. When someone missed the fairway and had to find their ball, that cart searched while the other cart hit. In every instance the missing ball was found in time for the next shot even without all four people looking in the same place. When we needed to find 3 balls, my partner hit and came to where my ball was as the twosome across the fairway hit their approaches and I was waiting to hit mine. We were just in a nice rhythm. People were dropped off at their balls and walked up after their shot and everything.

We didn't rush, chatted before/after shots, kinda just cruised along. Could we have been faster? Sure, but it was a weekend and the group behind was nowhere to be found. No sense in speeding to a red light. We started to catch up to the group that teed off 20 something minutes ahead of us towards the turn. On hole 10 we hit that metaphorical red light. I wanna say we still finished off the round in 4:25. But we also started well after the group ahead and had long waits on the back 9. The group behind us caught up a few times as we were waiting to tee off. It's easy to be efficient without rushing when all 4 players are contributing. Unfortunately, I'll probably never have another round like that again.
 
I agree that a 4 hour round is very reasonable. As a foursome I don't feel a need to play in 3 hours but I do like the round to move. For me 3:45-4 hours is very reasonable. 4:30 is way too long.
 
As far as a rant goes, it feels like a bit of an exaggeration. I don't think there's really that many 5.5 hr people out there. I'm one of the enjoy my time out there people. I know a lot of others. None of them are 5.5 people. I'm more of a 3.5. some maybe 4.

The pace of golf and life moves a little differently for everyone. I think I've become more of an enjoy my time out there guy as the rest of my life activities have become more rushed, and no offense to anyone but during a normal day I'm moving through the rest of my life at a much faster pace than the average person. So I really don't like to feel rushed much on course. It's the one thing that's not a bit frenetic in my life. I mean there's people that go golfing to actually burn calories and get their activity in. Which is so opposite of my life it's kind of hilarious.

And I personally feel like the exaggerated view of the truly slow people being a problem stretches into the early rounds you mentioned. I think people thinking the dew sweeping needs to be at a screaming pace is unfair to everyone who wants to experience golf in the morning (which is lovely) at a more normal pace, or is a morning person, or just has that time available to play because of work or other obligations. I'm as much against people thinking they have the right to push or judge people for not playing at 2.5 hrs in the morning as I am the actual 5.5 players. There's far more of the former from my observations though.
 
OldandStiff said:
As far as a rant goes, it feels like a bit of an exaggeration. I don't think there's really that many 5.5 hr people out there. I'm one of the enjoy my time out there people. I know a lot of others. None of them are 5.5 people. I'm more of a 3.5. some maybe 4.

The pace of golf and life moves a little differently for everyone. I think I've become more of an enjoy my time out there guy as the rest of my life activities have become more rushed, and no offense to anyone but during a normal day I'm moving through the rest of my life at a much faster pace than the average person. So I really don't like to feel rushed much on course. It's the one thing that's not a bit frenetic in my life. I mean there's people that go golfing to actually burn calories and get their activity in. Which is so opposite of my life it's kind of hilarious.

And I personally feel like the exaggerated view of the truly slow people being a problem stretches into the early rounds you mentioned. I think people thinking the dew sweeping needs to be at a screaming pace is unfair to everyone who wants to experience golf in the morning (which is lovely) at a more normal pace, or is a morning person, or just has that time available to play because of work or other obligations. I'm as much against people thinking they have the right to push or judge people for not playing at 2.5 hrs in the morning as I am the actual 5.5 players. There's far more of the former from my observations though.
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I can be a bit guilty of this. I play most of my round in the stupid long round time portion of the tee sheet. When I do get up before dawn to try and play at dawn. Then I hope to play in a reasonable time. However, Im so triggered my the perception of slow play, the 5.5ers, that if Im playing as a true single and have no place to pass. The waiting during that 3 hour round can *feel* just like the 5 hours with a foursome. But worse because I have no one to talk to.
 
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