Because there are never posts about pace...

[OldandStiff]

I can be a bit guilty of this. I play most of my round in the stupid long round time portion of the tee sheet. When I do get up before dawn to try and play at dawn. Then I hope to play in a reasonable time. However, Im so triggered my the perception of slow play, the 5.5ers, that if Im playing as a true single and have no place to pass. The waiting during that 3 hour round can *feel* just like the 5 hours with a foursome. But worse because I have no one to talk to.

That's why it's really rare I buzz through a round. It just throws off the perception of pace and makes a normal round feel slow. Guys that play all their rounds fast tend to get really frustrated during any normal play. And frustrated usually shows up on the scorecard, the attitude after, and the memories of it. No thank you.

 

[pnw43iron]

So is the consensus a reasonable round is 3.5 to 4.5 hrs? Roughly 10-15 mins per hole for a 4some

 

[tahoebum]

This is certainly a topic that's been beaten to death but I'll throw in my two cents. Public golf in many larger cities can certainly average 4.5 hours or longer especially Friday through Sunday. Luckily, there are plenty of private clubs that offer faster golf and for many people like me, it's one of the main attractions of joining a private club.

I played behind the women's nine hole league today and on the front our foursome was waiting just a minute or two on most shots and we finished in 1:50. Perfectly acceptable even if there was very little ready golf from the group in front of us. The back nine was wide open and even though we spent time searching for at least 10 tee shots, we finished the back in 1:30. I had some buddies making the turn right after I got done so I joined them for another nine holes. We finished as a fivesome in 1:50 and it was a comfortable pace with fewer errant tee shots and little waiting. As I've aged I care less about pace of play but I will still drive/walk off a course if the pace slows to longer than 2:15 per nine.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

I'm no fan of slow play, but I'm also not a fan of having a gang of speed freaks running up our backsides. This was happening one day where we were waiting a lot, so there was no way to let them play through. That changed when they started landing balls near us before we could even get back in our carts! We waited for them on the next tee and waved them through. As they roared by I said that they could now hit into the group in front of us! Let them run up somebody elses a**!

Another time, I had a conversation with a guy who complained about "slow" play. He just had to be home at a certain time, and could not understand why 3 hours wasn't time enough for a round on a glorious Sunday at one of the most popular public courses in this area. I asked him why he was even on the course! He didn't seem to understand when I told him that a public golf course on a Sunday afternoon was a bad place to be in a hurry!

 

[robrandalgz]

tech has slowed the pace of play for most beginners.

Range finders and gps app have made club selection more complex me thinks. Most beginning golfers would be be better off estimating club selection off 50, 100, 150, and 200 yard stakes most course had 10-15 years ago.

Yes. Finding a yardage marker and pacing it off to your ball is INFINITELY faster than shooting the yardage from where I stand...........

 

[rocullen]

I don't mind slow play too much, but when it's because some one is wasting time, it gets old quick.
Boss invited me to go play with him and two sales reps;
I birdied the first hole and was still one under at 14.
They were on the phone aaalll daaayyy lllooong.
Now mind you, we teed off at 2:00 during the late summer.
We had to hurry to finish beat dark.

 

[pnw43iron]

Yes. Finding a yardage marker and pacing it off to your ball is INFINITELY faster that shooting the yardage from where I stand...........

Fair point.

My comment was for beginners. Most aren’t consistent enough to hit a club a stock yardage. So estimating by eye you are 10-15 yards past 150 and hitting what ever club(s) can get you 160-180 would be much faster than shooting a target with a range finder, taking slope into consideration, etc.

Most of the slow play I see is due to people spending 3 mins each shot getting everything perfect (yardage, slope, wind, club selection, standing over the ball) only to advance the ball 50 ft.

 

[robrandalgz]

The only thing worse than someone that plays a 5 hour round of golf is someone who expects to play a round in sub 3 hours. Two players at opposite ends of the "it's all bout me" spectrum.

 

[robrandalgz]

Fair point.

My comment was for beginners. Most aren’t consistent enough to hit a club a stock yardage. So estimating by eye you are 10-15 yards past 150 and hitting what ever club(s) can get you 160-180 would be much faster than shooting a target with a range finder, taking slope into consideration, etc.

Most of the slow play I see is due to people spending 3 mins each shot getting everything perfect (yardage, slope, wind, club selection, standing over the ball) only to advance the ball 50 ft.

You also make a fair point. The whole paralysis by analysis syndrome. I played with someone who wouldn't hit a shot before he went through every calculation of his ARCCOS data. It was maddening. It turned me off on the entire system (which was the opposite effect he was trying to have). To be fair, I've seen others that have used that system very efficiently. I think, when it comes down to it, slow players are just slow.

 

[Sean]

When Massachusetts finally allowed golf to be played there were certain restrictions: First, no warm up. You stayed in or around your car until it was your time to tee off, and second, 15 minute intervals between tee times. During this period, we never encountered and PoP issues. Of course, no golf course will do that willingly as they would lose revenue.

 

[robrandalgz]

When Massachusetts finally allowed golf to be played there were certain restrictions: First, no warm up. You stayed in or around your car until it was your time to tee off, and second, 15 minute intervals between tee times. During this period, we never encountered and PoP issues. Of course, no golf course will do that willingly as they would lose revenue.

Honestly, this is the crux of the problem. 8 minute tee time intervals are the cause of (or perception) of slow play. I get it. Golf courses haven't historically been known as cash cows. So, I understand their want/need to capitalize on the current golf "boom". But it's no fun for those of us that like to keep a reasonable pace and not seem like we are waiting for 5 minutes between every shot.....

 

[blugold]

Proper length of round is first and foremost determined on course layout. A 1:50 foursome riding at my home course is fast. A sub 4 hour 18 is really quick.

Importantly, the fastest golfer on the course does not get to be the determiner of pace for the entire course.

 

[JonMA1]

As much as I hate it when people are deliberately slow, I’m trying to accept things as they are. I’m not going to change anyone. I love the game but if I had to endure the pace some folks describe… like I had no options but to play 5 hour rounds every time I went out, I don’t think I could do it.
I am learning to accept the slower pace of a 4 - 4 1/2 hour round. I can practice chipping, play multiple balls, look for lost balls, etc. I just hang back and try not to push.

And here’s the thing… when that happens the groups behind usually aren’t even catching up. Evidently, my pace of play is far above average even though I’ve played with plenty who were faster.

Fortunately, I have the opportunity to get out first most days and it’s not as much of an issue.

 

[RayG]

Maybe it's just me, but I've always felt that "Speed of Play" is not the same as "Pace of Play". There are those 'Rabbit's that will speed through their round to get it 'over with' so they can do other things. That's just playing fast and, to me anyway, not enjoying themselves. If you could get everyone to play at 2.5/3 hours, where is the chance to actually enjoy what you're doing? Take a few extra seconds to appreciate the surroundings, bust the chops of your buddies, check out the Bald Eagle or whatever and it's a 3/3.5 hour round with a much better mindset. Which, TBH isn't that bad of a time to finish. And there would STILL be some guys trying to steam through because "The breakfast buffet closes in an hour!".

And the brain will perceive 'Pace' differently as well. there are rounds that FELT pretty quick (relatively speaking), yet took 4.5/5 hours. Only because everyone was moving along without any real waiting around on tee's or in fairways. It can also matter how you feel you are playing. Maybe you're keeping up, but seem to be all over the shop.

But- I've also felt like "jeez, this is taking forever" when it's been a 4 hour round. (which on a Public/Muni on a weekend is almost unheard of) Again, perception- maybe you had to wait a couple of times on a Par 3 or wait for a group to putt out after they seemingly measured every putt with an astrolabe so they can win that quarter.

Be lucky to not be playing some of the NYC courses where it can be a 5/6 hour slog on a course that most people play @ less than 5800/6000 yards. You have enough time to do a research paper on that Bald Eagle, not just enjoy the view.

 

[darthweasel]

that if Im playing as a true single and have no place to pass. The waiting during that 3 hour round can *feel* just like the 5 hours with a foursome. But worse because I have no one to talk to.

I see a "should singles play when it is busy" thread has popped up...have not been to visit it yet, but if I do my answer will be a resounding "yes" for, among others, this specific reason. I have things I do to intentionally make my round less efficient...pull the flag, don't put my glove on til I get to the tee box (still can't wait til it is my shot like I have seen some do), wait til on the green or about to chip to take it off, pay less attention to where I leave my cart, spend some time searching the green for pitch marks...couple others...

and a lot of it is because when playing as a single I work hard to NOT push anyone in front of me and hang back. But the old Einstein quote I will paraphrase comes to mind..."put your hand on a hot stove and a few seconds feels like an hour. Spend an hour talking to a pretty girl and it feels like a few seconds."

Those long waits even in a reasonable time do feel long and someone else mentioned it is definitely about pace, not time. Many of us have pointed out through the years I have played "fast" 5 hour rounds and "slow" 3 hour rounds just based on the wait.

And to make sure I somehow annoy everyone...playing single with a wait seems like a strong argument to be blasting some fun music

 

[McLovin]

I fail to see why it should ever take more than four hours for a round of golf. Over the weekend, I played a round with a father and son and another single. Each of those guys hit multiple mulligans from both the tee and out in the middle of the hole. They would be on their phones, either talking, texting or looking at stuff while they could have been getting ready for their next shot. It was only when the green would clear that they would begin figuring out which club to pull. All of this behavior added up to an almost 5 hour round. I am sure that if I would have said something, they would have thought I was some ill tempered guy. From their perspective, I am sure that they were just enjoying a leisurely afternoon on the course, relaxing. It is just ridiculous from my perspective, though.

i see it so much when i get paired with newer golfers. they just have zero clue about the etiquette of ready golf, and i don't know how to teach them without coming across like an a*****e.

 

[El Rayo X]

Agree with you. Pace of play is the #1 reason why I joined a private club. The ideal 18 with a foursome is usually in the realm of 3.5 hours, anything beyond 4 is simply too long.

Agreed, but I don't feel the need to play <3hrs like some seem to....
I played with a group on Sunday mornings a few years back and they were in a rush to finish and get to church by 0900, Teeing off at 0600. Not fun.

 

[GenErr]

The course I play is close to a seaside vacation area. The past couple of years, with the pandemic and aftermath, the course was never crowded. This year, however, it is packed. In the Summer we tee off early to beat the Summer heat and humidity, but the last few times we've played, we got behind multiple groups of "once a year" golfers who knew little about pace of play. They enjoyed themselves, kept the cart girl busy, and I guess had a good time. Good for them, golf is supposed to be enjoyable.
We quit, both times, after 9 holes due to the pace of play, and the heat.

 

[Sean]

My friend Frank (83 years old), and I (68 years old), played 27 today in 4:12. Last Sunday we played 18 and it took 4:35. The course was empty, especially for a Saturday. We think the threat of severe weather kept people away. T-storms were forecast for 10 am or so, now it looks like later this afternoon.

 

[Cruskater]

I have seen everything I think on our course. Someday it is just the morning leagues (yes they do allow a league to play on Sunday mornings...it is an inner-city type league that plays a rotation of 3 or 4 affordable courses) in which everyone is putting out and being particular about everything. That backs it up.

Sometimes it is beginner post-Covid golfers who can only get out on weekends due to work etc.

We played with a guy who walked and was a pretty quick player about everything from club selection to reading putts but would then wait about 15 seconds over the ball on a full shot and about 25-30 seconds over every putt. (Yeah I timed him he was taking so long). No clue what he was thinking over the ball.

At our public course it is usually people with zero pre shot routine who walk up to the ball, whack it, swear about a s*$&k, watch their buddy hit a shot, and then drive over to their ball to hit another bad shot. Poor cart management and no serious manner with routines, etc. One thing I very rarely see is someone who had a preshot routine that takes too long. We have a course less than 6000 yards so it is usually faster to walk it. Insistence on foursomes and the amount of people in carts on weekends slow it down.

During the week in the summer, we go around in about 3:45 to 4 hours. On a weekend it can be well over 5 hours.

 

[Bryndom]

4 hrs and under is ideal for me. When it gets to 5 I’m just not having an enjoyable time. I’ve seen folks do 6+ hrs and it’s just mental. A course needs good rangers to know where there are slowdowns and help reduce the friction to keep things moving well

 

[drb1956]

"...something along the lines of "Your place is directly behind the group in front of you, not in front of the group behind you".

Yes- all well and good for the ideal scenario. Golf is NOT an ideal scenario. I have played with 'Rabbits', played behind 'Rabbits' and played ahead of 'Rabbits'.

If I play behind a group of Rabbits who want to get back to the clubhouse so as not to miss the breakfast special and be home to lay on the couch by 9:30AM and want to play in 2 hours, let them go. It isn't MY responsibility to keep up with those nuts.

Playing WITH a Rabbit who has no place to go is bad enough. They will be moving around, grabbing the tee box and hitting when it is not safe (If they were to actually hit it straight in the first place), then running off before everyone else is finished, only to have to wait (BARELY) for the group ahead to be off the green. On more than one occasion, a Rabbit was hitting onto a Par 3 WHILE the guy was putting the flag back in.

Playing ahead of Rabbits is probably the worst. They try to get you to speed up with their antics when there is no place to go. It makes for a terrible round always worrying about some idiot hitting on to the green while your putting the flag back in (for example).

In general, on a public course after the first few groups are out, that's it- pace is pretty much set for the day. Some courses will have GPS tracking and let you know that your area bit behind. It makes you feel guilty- until you realize the group in front of you must be behind, and the group in front of them, and the group in front of them, and so on. Most don't, so you are locked into whatever the slowest group ahead of you is doing. Even if they aren't "Falling behind". Somewhere, somehow, things got backed up a bit and everyone is now at that pace. And since many courses will double stack, even those rabbits are caught up after 9 holes to whatever the pace is on the back.

Unless you have the luxury of a private club or similar, Your 'job' is to maintain whatever the pace is for that time of day and conditions. Courses that jam 7,8 minute tee times onto the sheets are just fooling themselves that they are going to make more money. Word gets out they get backed up by an hour by mid morning, nobody wants to play there and 5 hours becomes SOP

Had a twosome in front of us couple if weeks ago. One guy 50ish, or a little more, a duffer, and the other was a late 30's, and thought he was a long hitter, and they would incessantly wait for the green to clear on their second shot, and the younger of the two would not get anywhere near the green on a par 4. I think I hit longer than he did most if the round. Couple of times we hit off the tee while they were on the fairway, trying to get them moving. Hell, they even waited on their second on a par 5!! Ranger came by, and they picked it up after that, but by then we were on like 16..We even caught up to them on a few tees, but it did not seem to phase them. People like that will NEVER get it!! They will have to be told to move to the next tee, or told to leave the course a few times, then it might sink in! Biggest problem is with folks like these, they THINK they are better than they really are!!

 

[Acesteve]

some basics of physics that these threads often miss. the course we play is a factor. How many are in the group is a factor. The skill in the group is a factor. If someone is walking, physical ability is a factor.

The number in the group is the number 1 miss in these threads to me. When we tee off we play in series and often when we putt the same. So 4 golfers will take longer then 1.

4 hours for a 4-some on an average course I play is a good result. that I often play as a single and can walk at great speed and play in 2:40 is not saying a 4-some playing in 4 hours is slow.

now, that 3-some playing in 4.5 hours just pisses me off. Made worse when they are playing around the green giving lessons or all three looking for 1 persons ball for like 4min

 

[InTheRough]

Early this season I could walk a 9 in about 1:45. When I had to quit this season, it took me 2:30 to walk a 9. It was difficult to watch. Back to riding for me.

With a mixed foursome 4 hrs is a decent time. The pace of play on the course is 2 hrs per 9 holes + 10 mins potty & snack at the turn.

I don't think tech has slowed the game. I use a Garmin G80 Approach when I ride. It is set to "plays as." Sorry guys. It's my caddie. It takes the guess work out of club selection. I'm not competing and no longer keeping an official HC. I'm just out there having fun. Besides, pros I've played with use the slope functions when they play casual rounds because they don't keep HCs. I'm 70 yrs old and am not going to be going on the Sr. Tour any time soon let alone entering any Sr. amateur comps.

 

[David7]

Where I mainly play has been getting really bad lately. Tee times seven minutes apart, no ranger and all sorts of issues that come with that. My friends still love the course so I’m sticking it out but it’s getting rough.