Corona Virus/COVID19: Local Impact

[jdtox]

I’m totally ok with this (i.e. wearing a covering of some kind). Many people have no idea how to cough or sneeze in public.
When I was in Japan back in December, it was normal for them to wear masks in public. I was told it wasnt as much about catching illness but more about not spreading it. I was told that they wear the masks if they dont feel good or have a cough or cold, out of respect for others.

I get that, if you are ill and have to go out wear a mask. But they are "recommending" even healthy people wear a cloth mask of some kind including homemade now which is what I was referring to. I'm not a fan of seeing people everywhere wearing masks.

 

[tahoebum]

Actually not really. The he CDC is recommending cloth face masks now.

CDC is additionally advising the use of simple cloth face coverings to slow the spread of the virus and help people who may have the virus and do not know it from transmitting it to others. Cloth face coverings fashioned from household items or made at home from common materials at low cost can be used as an additional, voluntary public health measure.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is a virus (more specifically, a coronavirus) identified as the cause of an outbreak of respiratory illness first detected in Wuhan, China.

www.cdc.gov

They are recommending it “where social distancing measures are difficult to maintain”. As I said, a golf course is not a place would not be a place where I would have a hard time maintain social distancing. In MN they aren’t even allowing one person to mow on 165 acres right now so I imagine if they open it up for golfers all sorts of restrictions will be in place to maintain social distancing on the course.

A quote from the article you mention:

“In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.”

 

[JB]

They are recommending it “where social distancing measures are difficult to maintain”. As I said, a golf course is not a place would not be a place where I would have a hard time maintain social distancing.

A quote from the article you mention:

“In light of this new evidence, CDC recommends wearing cloth face coverings in public settings where other social distancing measures are difficult to maintain (e.g., grocery stores and pharmacies) especially in areas of significant community-based transmission.”

I used that as a link because it was the CDC. They said during the conference, that people being out, should consider wearing one.

I get it, you and I have very differing view points on the severity of this pandemic as evidenced by the posts in this thread. Simple precautions that could benefit both the person and those around them seem rather trivial in light of the most recent news items.

 

[DNice26]

I am not sure I would want the widespread face mask usage to become standard, but I do hope that we have a culture change from this and that shaking hands becomes a thing of the past.

Why not? If it means a more healthy public, why would it matter if someone has a mask on? I think Americans just aren’t used to it and we kinda take offense to it. But if taken from the perspective of that person respecting your health, it makes complete sense.

 

[DNice26]

I get that, if you are ill and have to go out wear a mask. But they are "recommending" even healthy people wear a cloth mask of some kind including homemade now which is what I was referring to. I'm not a fan of seeing people everywhere wearing masks.

I think that is based on the current theory that a quarter to half the population is positive with no symptoms. In such a case, I’m a fan of everyone wearing a mask or covering, as long as they keep the N95s for the professionals that need them.

 

[gmiller598]

Just heard Florida isn’t expected to reach our peak until early May.

Anyway, on a more light hearted note, not sure if this was posted but my sister just sent it to me.

I don’t know who to believe. I see projections for Ohio saying mid April. The governor thinks it my not be until mid may, and I read something last night where the CEO of the Cleveland Clinic thinks it won’t be until mid June.

 

[jdtox]

I think that is based on the current theory that a quarter to half the population is positive with no symptoms. In such a case, I’m a fan of everyone wearing a mask or covering, as long as they keep the N95s for the professionals that need them.

I agree about the N95 masks but this is what Imagine seeing more of

 

[links_slayer]

I agree about the N95 masks but this is what Imagine seeing more of

View attachment 8935392

will one like this work (if you pull it up over your nose, that is)?

 

[DNice26]

I agree about the N95 masks but this is what Imagine seeing more of

View attachment 8935392

Well, I guess it depends on where you live with those! But yeah, people will get creative (lets say) with it. But I could care less if it means I’m less likely to catch that guys germs. Have at it...

 

[BigDill]

Why not? If it means a more healthy public, why would it matter if someone has a mask on? I think Americans just aren’t used to it and we kinda take offense to it. But if taken from the perspective of that person respecting your health, it makes complete sense.

I think culturally, mostly. I think the culture in a place like Japan is much different than here, much more tolerant and respectful of others, generally speaking. There is another set of issues that concern me, but they are not really appropriate for this thread topic and I rather not derail the conversations here. But the mask opinion is just my preference, obviously.

 

[DNice26]

Perhaps this guy would still be alive if the lady on his bus had a face covering on....

 

[tahoebum]

I used that as a link because it was the CDC. They said during the conference, that people being out, should consider wearing one.

I get it, you and I have very differing view points on the severity of this pandemic as evidenced by the posts in this thread. Simple precautions that could benefit both the person and those around them seem rather trivial in light of the most recent news items.

The severity is huge and so will be the collateral damage from shutting down the economy for weeks and months. We will see lots of death caused from this virus In the form of suicides and drug addiction long after the new cases have slowed to a trickle.

My wife and I are not going out in public places that have more than a handful of people per acre such as on our street for a walk. I will not be in a public place such as a store for the foreseeable future and we are spending most of our time in a county that has only 12 people per square mile and 3 Covid confirmed cases so I don’t know how much more seriously we can personally respond to this virus and isolate ourselves. When I have been out, I’ve been wearing a N95 mask the last 18 or 19 days when the CDC was recommending against masks of any kind. With my background in sales of safety equipment including respirators and having N95 masks on hand from my previous job, I knew the protections an N95 mask could offer. The 150 new N95 masks I found in our garage a couple of weeks ago I donated to an appreciative local hospital. I have only been within 5 yards of a stranger a few times( maybe 10 people total at that 5 yard distance) the last 11 days when walking outside in our neighborhood.

If our club opens up I could go directly from my car to the first tee and would only be playing golf alone or most likely with someone who has already recovered from Covid 19. I can easily stay a few yards away from him the entire round with 90% of that time being more like 30+ yards away. It’s a mute point as MN is one of only 3 states in the country that won’t allow maintenance such as mowing on a golf course. We also have one of the lowest Covid 19 death rates per million in the country.

A lot of people are not taking this thing seriously but I’m not one of them.

 

[Reframmellator]

I would golf if wearing a mask, a purple speedo, and bunny ears were all mandatory.

Statements like this are foolhardy and irresponsible. Don't you realize the CDC probably is reading this thread, and now you've likely given them a new idea to mandate to encourage social distancing?

I think lots of people don’t understand that a mask is not a N95 respirator and as such doesn’t provide much protection for the person wearing it. It’s designed to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus. FWIW, I’ve been wearing an N95 respirator each time I’ve been in a store or in public the last three weeks which is only about 3 occasions.

With the new emphasis on masks, I'm asking tahoebum to offer a primer here on masks. He has a career's worth of experience in this sort of stuff, and he can explain, perhaps better than anyone else here, how an N95 differs from a surgical mask, why an N95 needs to be fitted to be effective, how to don and take off, etc. Might it merit its own thread?

I learned something on the radio this morning. They interviewed someone who cited a 2013 study that researched the effectiveness of homemade protective masks. The standard surgical mask was the best overall, but a mask made from a vacuum cleaner bag came very close in terms of filtration. However, they noted such masks were pretty uncomfortable and thus would be less effective in real world use. They recommended cotton T-shirts or kitchen towels. All of the effective filter materials were of a relatively dense weave. Although they were slightly less effective than vacuum cleaner bags, T-shirts/towels are stretchier and more likely to both conform to the face and be more comfortable in use. Both of those factors led to assessment of greater effectiveness in use. T-shirt/towel masks can also be washed/re-used.

 

[Bernoulli]

I skimmed, being totally honest, but man - NY is ******* up hard.

Yes, and Long Island is now being hard hit.

 

[DNice26]

A friend of mine contracted Covid from her mother (she believes), as her mother tested positive. My friend has not been tested though, because she cant access a test to confirm. They wont test her because she already managed to get past her symptoms. Think of the thoughsands out there like this. Pretty scary.

 

[Luchnia]

A friend of mine contracted Covid from her mother (she believes), as her mother tested positive. My friend has not been tested though, because she cant access a test to confirm. They wont test her because she already managed to get past her symptoms. Think of the thoughsands out there like this. Pretty scary.

That does seem to be an issue. It would still be nice to know so you at least could not transfer to others.

 

[donny475]

Mom in law and most of the wife fam are in NOLA area, More worried about them than me. I have plenty to stay in for a month

 

[tahoebum]

Some basics about masks and N95 respirators for those who are interested now that the CDC is suggesting them in public places. I had a 20 year career at 3M that involved selling safety equipment and fit testing end users for N95 and other types of half-face, full-face and powered respirators.

Most of us will not be able to get our hands on an N95 mask the next few months but for those of you who can here is a video. The donning instructions in the video apply to non N95 masks as well although they do not have the metal nose piece. An N95 respirator will always be labeled as such and will always have 2 straps. A dust mask that looks similar and is sold at places like Home Depot will have one strap and not be labeled as N95. Without being fit tested you really don’t know how good the seal and protection are for an N95 respirator. Surgical and other masks are NOT respirators and do not protect the wearer nearly as well and do not need to be/can’t be fit tested. Also, you must be clean shaven meaning not even one day beard growth when wearing a tight fitting N95 respirator. All N95 masks must be cleaned properly daily which is not and easy task unless you have special equipment to do so. Wiping down with and alcohol wipe is the most common way of disinfecting outside of health care facilities were they normally just toss them after each shift under normal conditions when there are no shortages.

In many situations where respirators are required by OSHA regulations, tight fitting goggles or face shields are also required as the airborne particles or chemicals can easily enter through the eyes. As an example, touching a pin pad for payment at the store and then touching your eye could transmit a virus.

It’s important to remember that N95 masks are tight fitting to your face and protect you by forming a seal. As such they take effort to breath through and are uncomfortable. Basically the better your cardio condition the easier they are to wear and many people like heavy smokers can’t wear them as it compromises their breathing. N95 masks with a valve are more comfortable but don’t protect those around you as the valve will let larger particles out but not in. Surgical masks are loose fitting but made of a filter material that(mostly) prevents the wearer form spreading disease but a lot less effective in preventing the wearer of getting a airborne disease. IMO they give the wearer a false sense of security but still make sense in crowded places especially during a virus outbreak. Homemade masks or those that are not surgical offer almost zero protection for the wearer and varying degree of protection to those that come in close contact with the wearer. A homemade mask from something like a a vacuum cleaner bag would be more effective than cloth but IMO super uncomfortable to wear very long. The hotter the weather the more annoying masks and N95 respirators are to wear.

It’s important to remember that if you are not used to wearing a mask or respirator you will likely be touching your face a lot more than normal which may increase you chances of getting this virus especially if you are in a crowded place such as a subway or bus.

Social distancing and not going out in public still is the best prevention and tactic against spreading it to others but many have to go to work or sometimes to a store. A non-N95 mask that is fabric offers little protection for the wearer but offers decent protection from you transmitting to others. Obviously there are other ways of getting it such as touching surfaces at a grocery store or any other public place.

 

[gmiller598]

I feel like absolutely 100% of everything related to our response and future planning all relates back to a lack of testing available. We have no idea how many people have or have had it. All kinds of people who have had it and will have recovered will never be counted until there is some sort of antibody test administered and we may never know complete answers for years after the fact.

 

[TRA024]

If I take our weekend group as a typical example it's 3-4 tee times with people from 40-70 year's old. If we don't drastically change the way we do things (ball-toss, tee box chatter, etc.) it's difficult to maintain 6f at all times. I suspect even if we intended to there would be accidental "breaches" to this. Before we get proper tests and can confirm people as non-carriers I would be fine with wearing a mask as evidence suggests it helping in not spreading the virus if you are a carrier.

Now back to watching 1989 Master's final round.

 

[JB]

I know Sweden was talked about earlier in this thread as a place to watch due to their not changing much.
Their death rate is now higher per capita than the US and most countries in Europe.

This is getting pretty ugly right now as the numbers are mounting and no mandate has been put in place

 

[tahoebum]

This is getting pretty ugly right now as the numbers are mounting and no mandate has been put in place

It will be interesting to see how their much different approach ends when this is all over. Right now they are at 36 deaths per million and the U.S. is at about 24 deaths per million. They are likely farther along with this virus than the U.S. as you would think many more have been exposed with most kids under 15 still in school and no closures of restaurants or shelter in place recommendations other than for older people. The worst spots here like New York has a death rate currently of 187 per million which is much worse than Sweden. Norway which is likely a much better comparison to Sweden than NY is, has a death rate currently of only 9 per million and a place like MN which has the same population as Norway has a current death rate of only 3.9 per million.

A lot will be learned from the different approaches and policies of different countries and cities when this is past us. Certainly lots of mistakes have been made both in policies and effectiveness/compliance with those policies. Next time hopefully we will be much smarter and I’m cautiously optimistic that just maybe China next time will be more open and honest sooner but it might be too much to expect from a Communist country.

 

[Sean]

That is incredibly asinine. So, not only will they lose out on the revenue during the closure. But, they will have to spend additional money and resources to get the overgrown course in playing shape. No idea how long that would take. I know there are a lot worse things to worry about during this time. But, I am just tired of the disregard for the economic impact. A one size fits all approach isn't the only answer. There are ways for some places to operate all while adhering to the CDC guidelines. The worst thing is, for how much this frustrates me, I am but a small voice that will get ignored as far as the lawmakers are concerned.

The courses in MA are closed, but golf course maintenance is allowed. Our state golf association wrote a letter to the governor explaining that this is a critical time for golf course maintenance so he allowed golf courses to continue maintenance.

 

[Sean]

I can't help but wonder what the true economic impact will be once this passes. I went for a walk today...drove to the park...and I see all these small businesses shut down (including golf courses), deserted parking lots, and what not.

 

[skujan]

Maintain'em now and play'em toward the end of the month.