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Difference between an 80 golfer and a 90 golfer

millsan1

millsan1

I've figured this game out! Oh wait, no I haven't
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I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking an article I just read, but it laid out the difference between someone who shoots 80 and someone who shoots 90, from a strokes gained perspective.

But I did read it, and found it to be very interesting.

I, for one, thought that when you see an 80 vs a 90 player, the differences would be stark. It turns out there are just a lot of small differences that make up the overall difference.

These are guesstimates, from memory, but it went something like this:

Penalties, 1 vs 2.5
Driving - Fairways found +1.5 for 80
Approach - +2 for 80
Distance to pin 40 vs 30 ft
3 putts 3 vs 1

etc

But it basically boils down that the difference between an 80 golfer and a 90 golfer is 1-2 shots, over a round, in each area of play. Driving, Irons, Approach, putting and penalty avoidance. Seems to be simple and make sense when you actually think about it.

So in reality, it means that if an 80s golfer and a 90s golfer play together, they will be equal 90% of the time. The other 10% of shots are where the 80 golfer separates themselves.

Thoughts?
 
Yeah for me it comes down to double boggy avoidance. Which is essentially what you are talking about. My Birdie/par numbers don't change much but a good round vs a bad round depends if i'm making doubles or worse or if i'm able to save them into bogies. Bad round is low 90s, Good round is low 80s.
 
Agree with that and from a swing standpoint more consistent and from a mental standpoint less unforced errors
 
Actually it is 10 strokes is the only difference.
Seriously though it boils down to some simple things really:
1 Avoiding double bogeys
2. Avoiding 3 putts
3. Getting up and down to save par.
 
Snickerdog said:
Actually it is 10 strokes is the only difference.
Seriously though it boils down to some simple things really:
1 Avoiding double bogeys
2. Avoiding 3 putts
3. Getting up and down to save par.
Click to expand...

And avoiding penalty strokes which lead to double bogeys. Don't give away strokes.
 
For me.....

To Break 100 consistently - I had to get the ball in play off the tee, eliminate the penalties from tee shots. I had to be able to get out of a greenside bunker in a shot and 2 max.
To Break 90 consistently - I had to eliminate the rest of the penalty shots. I had to start putting better and lose 3 putts.
TO Break 80 (not consistent yet) - My tee game is good enough to break 80. My approach game has to be on. I have worked a lot on my short game to get tap in pars but if my approaches were on the green then I am putting for bird instead. Putting has improved a lot but still around 30 putts a round so no that good.
 
Snickerdog said:
Actually it is 10 strokes is the only difference.
Seriously though it boils down to some simple things really:
1 Avoiding double bogeys
2. Avoiding 3 putts
3. Getting up and down to save par.
Click to expand...

Right, of course it boils down to the 10 strokes. My mistaken point of view was that the 80 vs the 90, the 80 is 10% better, on every stroke. Turns out, or at least to this article, that the 80 is not better by 10% every stroke, rather they are better 10% of the time.
 
I was a 90s player a couple of months ago, and today, I’m consistently low 80s, upper 70s. I’ve just reduced the number of really bad shots in each of those areas listed. Fewer 3 putts, fewer chunked chip shots, no more topped tee shots. And fewer ball in hazards. Dropping 10 shots from 90 to 80 was a lot easier than it’s going to be to drop another 5.
 
I would think this would be somewhat applicable more broadly... I would think that some representative truth exists in these numbers for the 70 v 80 player and even the 90 v 100. Hitting more fairways, avoiding penalty strokes, avoiding or limiting 3-putts, proximity to the hole all play a part in scoring no matter what level golfer. For me, much like what @Jmk202 mentioned, its about limiting double bogies, which means limiting penalty shots and significantly missing FWs.
 
Differences I notice when I shoot 80 vs high 80s

More fairways or slight misses
No duffs
More accurate short game
 
I am not in the 80s all the time, but quite a bit of the time now. What I have found is better fairways, minimizing recovery shots, getting GIRs, single chips when required, minimizing 3 putts. One thing I have learned about putting is, if you miss, miss close!

My short game practice - chipping, pitching, and putting made a world of difference in my game. My chipping game is really good now. I rarely miss a chip to the green anymore, whereas I used to be real inconsistent with those. To play low 80s continously I will have to get better focus and take the right amount of time needed to make sure I am scoring when the opportunity is there.
 
Luchnia said:
One thing I have learned about putting is, if you miss, miss close!
Click to expand...

My putting numbers have greatly improved usign this as my guide. From 10+ out, and certainly on 20+, my goal is to get it close. If it goes, great, but my #1 goal is to get it close and leave me an easy second. Has made a big difference in my scores.
 
It's been written here many times, but it's very simple:

No penalties, No two chips/pitches, No three putts.

The double bogey scenario is almost always the result of a penalty, which is more often than not the result of a tee shot. Unless you compound 2 of the above on the same hole (e.g., 2 chips and 3 putts).
 
I think course management is huge, but looking back when I broke 90 and stayed in the mid to high 80's, it was my short game that got me there. The ability to get up and down or hit a quality greenside bunker shot helped my scores go low pretty quick. Throw in working on my putting and avoiding 3 putts, it was easy to be in the 87-89 range and see 83-86 when my irons are not a liability.
 
Right now, I’m generally a low 80’s player that shoots in the high 70’s when he’s playing well. One of my regular partners shoots in the high 80’s when he’s playing well, low 90’s when not so well, and high 90’s when he’s having a mare. He strikes his irons way better than me (although I consider myself quite a poor iron player) and spanks it a good 50 to 60 yards past me when he gets hold of it. Course management is absolutely a huge part. I feel I can navigate my way round a course pretty well, knowing what I can and can’t do. He will stand up and constantly try and spank it to within an inch of the hole. His short game consists of taking swings that a far too long when he is trying to pitch it on to the green, meaning he’ll often decelerate into the ball and skull it way past the hole. He’s also partial to hitting a few thins and chunked shots through the round. If we were playing with someone new and they saw me and him swing together, if he was striking the ball well, you would think he was the low teen handicapper and I was the low 20’s guy.
 
Snickerdog said:
Actually it is 10 strokes is the only difference.
Seriously though it boils down to some simple things really:
1 Avoiding double bogeys
2. Avoiding 3 putts
3. Getting up and down to save par.
Click to expand...

(y)(y). Agree completely. A reliable consistent short game would help also but the ability to make 1 putt pars and even 1 putt bogies will lower the score.
 
Important differences:
Distance control; being hole-high consistently greatly improves proximity.

Judging green speed; better lag putting and very few 3 putts

Getting out of trouble; knowing when to bail and when to gamble based on your actual abilities to do so.

Controlled swing tempo for various shot-making.

And of course, practice.
 
millsan1 said:
I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking an article I just read, but it laid out the difference between someone who shoots 80 and someone who shoots 90, from a strokes gained perspective.

But I did read it, and found it to be very interesting.

I, for one, thought that when you see an 80 vs a 90 player, the differences would be stark. It turns out there are just a lot of small differences that make up the overall difference.

These are guesstimates, from memory, but it went something like this:

Penalties, 1 vs 2.5
Driving - Fairways found +1.5 for 80
Approach - +2 for 80
Distance to pin 40 vs 30 ft
3 putts 3 vs 1

etc

But it basically boils down that the difference between an 80 golfer and a 90 golfer is 1-2 shots, over a round, in each area of play. Driving, Irons, Approach, putting and penalty avoidance. Seems to be simple and make sense when you actually think about it.

So in reality, it means that if an 80s golfer and a 90s golfer play together, they will be equal 90% of the time. The other 10% of shots are where the 80 golfer separates themselves.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...


I've played with 100's of 90's players that could easily play in the 80's with just the minimum of strategy and cleaning up their short games. From what I have experienced from watching is that most of them putt decent enough.

It's hard to convince some of them that life really is a lot easier from the 150 marker out in the fairways than trying to scrape out a bogey from the trees 130 from the green. If I were golf's lovable dictator, I would make most of them leave their drivers in the trunk.

And then, there is the short game issue that most 90 shooters have. :unsure:
 
millsan1 said:
I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking an article I just read, but it laid out the difference between someone who shoots 80 and someone who shoots 90, from a strokes gained perspective.

But I did read it, and found it to be very interesting.

I, for one, thought that when you see an 80 vs a 90 player, the differences would be stark. It turns out there are just a lot of small differences that make up the overall difference.

These are guesstimates, from memory, but it went something like this:

Penalties, 1 vs 2.5
Driving - Fairways found +1.5 for 80
Approach - +2 for 80
Distance to pin 40 vs 30 ft
3 putts 3 vs 1

etc

But it basically boils down that the difference between an 80 golfer and a 90 golfer is 1-2 shots, over a round, in each area of play. Driving, Irons, Approach, putting and penalty avoidance. Seems to be simple and make sense when you actually think about it.

So in reality, it means that if an 80s golfer and a 90s golfer play together, they will be equal 90% of the time. The other 10% of shots are where the 80 golfer separates themselves.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Not so sound like a jerk, but isn't "gains 2 strokes a round over 5 areas of play" just a fancy way of saying "hits 10 less shots around?"

I'm wary of basing personal decisions on what to work on over studies done across populations. For a single person, the difference between shooting in the 80s and 90s may 90% come down to not getting in trouble off of the tee. I think that's why personal stat tracking is important if you're looking at what to improve.
 
I agree that the difference is not that significant; in other words there just a few small things that turn a 90 round into an 80s round as other have pointed out.

Think of it this way:
- bogey golf on a par 72 course is 90
- par 3s usually present the best opportunity for par, and most courses have at least 4 of them
- I always consider that on a par 5 you get one "less than perfect" shot but can still make par or at worst bogey
- avoiding the penalties is paramount; counting by twos runs up the total quick
- if you can hit 50% of the par 4s and 5s in regulation even the dreaded 3 jack still leaves you with bogey. I would bet most golfers would convert a portion of those into pars with good lag putting

My best advice for turning a 90 into an 89 or better (and I am by no means qualified to give advice) is to play shots that keep the ball in play and to take lines that allow you the most room for error (for example if there is a par 3 over water that is all carry to the green but has a "bailout" area and you don't think you can make the direct line 7 out of 10 then aim for the fairway area. If you find water, your next shot would be your 3rd, and you're still not necessarily safe. If you find land, you can still be on the green in 2. My first point would mean if you need to hit a shorter club that you are more comfortable with to stay in play then do it, even if it means giving up some distance. The woods are full of long hitters. Just sayin'
 
I just simplified the difference based on an article by Manuel de la Torre.

Not verbatim but basically he stated a 90s player will get more 6s on their score cards than an 80s player. A low 80s player can expect zero/fewer 6s.

A better 70s player, when compared to an 80s player will write down no 6s, and fewer 5s.

Scratch, or better players will be writing down more 3s, and 4s when compared to other players.

One of my bigger priorities when I play is not having to write down any 6s. It's been a priority of mine for several decades.

Now, obviously not scoring 5s, and 6s will correlate with what the OP posted about players talent levels, and their strokes gained/lost talent level area.
 
I saw an article a while back about a PGA player stat that if the guy had improved .25 of a stroke per round, or 1 stroke per tournament, he'd have made an extra $300,000 in earnings the year prior. Golf is about finding the 1% increases over time that eventually add up. Obviously it's easier for a 25 handicap to improve drastically over a short period of time than a single digit, but those marginal gains are still the ticket. A few more GIR and a couple less putts, your scores just keep going down.
 
I think 90 v 80 golfer is a whole lot more precise than saying 90's player vs 80's player. two very different things there imo. t.

I think there are (outliers and exceptions aside) two general major differences between a solid 90 player vs a solid 80 player. General ball striking consistency (vs lack of) and general better greenside short play (vs lack of). And it could be one of those much more so than the other depending on the player.

No one is averaging 77 to 84 (AKA 80 golfer) by failing at general ball striking much at all. You simply cannot as the math just wont add up. And also wont do it without greenside play being efficient enough. I mean lets face it......we are talking only 5 to 9 (average of 7) shots that can be forgiven for the entire round. Ansd forget it if any of them are penal and costing 2 strokes. Throw 2 penal shots out there each worth stroke and distance (or two strokes each) and now all you got is 3 or 4 other shots left.

In a nut shell, this is darn good freaking golf imo. Its consistently efficient enough at just about everything with only minimal failures.
And yet you folks out there who are scratch or better (another step better than Mr 80) are even more in a world of darn good golf than they are.
 
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