I think par 3s are the hardest to get par in general & 5s are a free par
Difference between an 80 golfer and a 90 golfer
I think par 3s are the hardest to get par in general & 5s are a free par
rollin
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The problem with your statement is that everything you mention is indeed very significant and nothing about it is to be considered just a few small things. Your statements in red below followed by my answers to them show just how very significant the difference is. .
Think of it this way:
- bogey golf on a par 72 course is 90
And yet an 80 only leaves 8 shots worth of forgiveness vs 18 shots for the 90. Thats a world of difference over only 80 attempted strokes. Huge significance
- par 3s usually present the best opportunity for par, and most courses have at least 4 of them
a 90 player does not hit many greens at all vs an 80 player so the par3 is no more touchable green than any other hole and yet the 90 player is more errant more times and also less efficient at finishing while also being further away and or also from worse lie situations.
- I always consider that on a par 5 you get one "less than perfect" shot but can still make par or at worst bogey
There is a huge reason why many par5's are often among the higher handicapped holes on most courses even though those same holes may often be considered some the easiest ones on that course. Its because highest cap holes are not the hardest holes but instead are the ones in which the bogey (90) player needs the most help vs the scratch player (or in this case the 80 player). The p5 is where the 90 player needs the most help because his lack of consistent ball striking struggles to allow him 3 good shots in a row. He simply just not doing that nearly as often and in fact very often not doing it. The difference in consistent ball striking (or lack of) is too significant.
- avoiding the penalties is paramount; counting by twos runs up the total quick
yes it does ...I agree totaly and again not at all something insignificant but indeed a very big deal. Significant lack of consistency with ball striking required to stop being penal. Some of which can be tamed from stropping the bad decisions but none the less is still lack of consistency.
- if you can hit 50% of the par 4s and 5s in regulation even the dreaded 3 jack still leaves you with bogey. I would bet most golfers would convert a portion of those into pars with good lag putting
Chances are if the 90 player was hitting 50% he would already be the 80 player (and maybe better) ..... I mean just think about that one. And fwiw just about all of it (the above). The differences are all very significant and far from anything less.
I'm a 20 handicap and usually shoot in the 90-105 range so this is very interesting for me.
The guys I play with usually shoot 82-95. The glaring differences I see is I usually lose a few more balls OB per round then them and I have more complete mishits than they do (shanks or tops that go 5 feet). I 3 putt a lot and I think that is the area I could pick up the most strokes but the guys I play with all seem to be similar putters but score much better. They probably make up the rest of the strokes from irons and proximity to the pin on approach.
I outdrive all of them significantly which probably helps me overall but means they pick up a few more in every other category.
The guys I play with usually shoot 82-95. The glaring differences I see is I usually lose a few more balls OB per round then them and I have more complete mishits than they do (shanks or tops that go 5 feet). I 3 putt a lot and I think that is the area I could pick up the most strokes but the guys I play with all seem to be similar putters but score much better. They probably make up the rest of the strokes from irons and proximity to the pin on approach.
I outdrive all of them significantly which probably helps me overall but means they pick up a few more in every other category.
Carolina Golfer
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Solid chipping. I usually score 98-100. Last week, it was a 93 and could have broken 90 except for a bad break (thinned a green side wedge out of the rough into the water). The difference was wedge play. Hit all of the 20-50 yard shots within 2 putt range. Practice does help with green side pitches/chips.
Problem with that distance is balls go a long ways into trouble as well... I've had some great driving rounds this year but when I miss its almost always gonzo...
Good discussion and I will add many 90s shooters (not all if they can drive it pretty well and pretty straight) play too far back - so they are hitting longer non scoring clubs in all day or not clearing trouble. Play tees to your ability! Then work hard on short game, course strategy, and putting and viola you can move into the 80s.
I play consistently with 2 90ish players. I’m a low 80 kind of player when I’m on. I find the difference is glaring.
Maybe it depends on the way the 90 is achieved. You can have the 300 yard bomber who has no clue where it’s going and is hitting 3 off the tee on a reload. Then if he DOES find it, it’s the “hero” shot every time that rarely pays off. So he’s then chipping back for 3, then missing green wildly, bad chip then 3 putt for his 8. OR- there’s the short topper, topper, chunk, thin, 3 putt for the 7. Rarely do I see one area that is a problem. They could hit 2 good shots, then 4 putt. Or, chunk it all the way and then sink a 25 footer for the 6. My friends are a combination of those. Consistency is not their game from one stroke to the next, much less hole to hole. Plus- they can’t let go. That ‘8’ will stick their craw for at least 2 holes just making it worse. And THAT could cost 8-10 strokes a round in itself for them.
Maybe it depends on the way the 90 is achieved. You can have the 300 yard bomber who has no clue where it’s going and is hitting 3 off the tee on a reload. Then if he DOES find it, it’s the “hero” shot every time that rarely pays off. So he’s then chipping back for 3, then missing green wildly, bad chip then 3 putt for his 8. OR- there’s the short topper, topper, chunk, thin, 3 putt for the 7. Rarely do I see one area that is a problem. They could hit 2 good shots, then 4 putt. Or, chunk it all the way and then sink a 25 footer for the 6. My friends are a combination of those. Consistency is not their game from one stroke to the next, much less hole to hole. Plus- they can’t let go. That ‘8’ will stick their craw for at least 2 holes just making it worse. And THAT could cost 8-10 strokes a round in itself for them.
Personally for me, when I hit the 90's it is because of penalty strokes off the tee. I cant have a day where I am swinging for the fences and rack up some bad scores quick.
When playing in the mid to high 80's I am loosing strokes off the tee but not with lost balls just in the rough, blocked out,
Lows 80's the chipping and putting is where I loose most strokes.
70's that are my better rounds and I feel very confident in shot selection.
So for me the biggest difference between 80's- 90's is off the Tee, every time.
When playing in the mid to high 80's I am loosing strokes off the tee but not with lost balls just in the rough, blocked out,
Lows 80's the chipping and putting is where I loose most strokes.
70's that are my better rounds and I feel very confident in shot selection.
So for me the biggest difference between 80's- 90's is off the Tee, every time.
When I went from 90s to low 80s then very rarely high 70s it was the most boring, nothing extravagant, keep the ball in front of you golf you could imagine.
greenOak
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Most important takeaways from this is that when it comes to reducing your score, reducing the number of terrible shots is more important than increasing the number of great ones. Your skill level is mostly about how bad you are at your worst - not how good you are at your best.
Also Im guessing this was the article OP was talking about:
golf.com
Also Im guessing this was the article OP was talking about:
The smart-player's guide to dropping 10 shots — guaranteed
Improving at golf doesn't require hours of range time. Recreational players just need to take advantage of the stat-based scoring opportunities out there.
golf.com
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I play with a few guys who are single digit caps and routinely shoot in the 70s. Just as you said, their game isn't anything exciting - it's just keep it on the short grass, keep the ball in front of them and don't make costly mistakes. One of them shot a 70 (-2) a few weeks ago, and it was one of the most boring, unspectacular rounds of golf you've ever seen. I had no idea he had gone that low until the scorecard was added up.
I usually shoot mid-80s on my home course, high 80s/low 90s on other courses. My most costly mistakes are usually off the tee - I'm erratic and cost myself more strokes from the tees than anywhere else on the course. My hybrid/iron game is so-so, probably my next biggest leak. I think I have a halfway decent short game and am an okay (but nowhere near great) putter. I feel that I have pretty good course management skills - I can think my way around a course and choose the right shots, the problem is that I don't hit what I'm aiming at.
As several others have already said, my best rounds don't come from having a lot of birdies on the scorecard - they come from not having a lot of doubles and triples on it.
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Yep, that's it!Most important takeaways from this is that when it comes to reducing your score, reducing the number of terrible shots is more important than increasing the number of great ones. Your skill level is mostly about how bad you are at your worst - not how good you are at your best.
Also Im guessing this was the article OP was talking about:
The smart-player's guide to dropping 10 shots — guaranteed
Improving at golf doesn't require hours of range time. Recreational players just need to take advantage of the stat-based scoring opportunities out there.
Yes. I’m mid to high 80s now and the difference between this and when I was at my best is all the stuff you mention. The leaks hurt a lot more than the occasional birdie help.
Definitely true, if I’m offline by the same angle I’m usually more likely to go OB. I’ve grown really fond of links courses like Torrey Pines out here as it’s much less punishing to offline drives when the rough is at a normal length.
rollin
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there is another thing no one seems to mention as well and that thing is course related. There are so many courses out there which are (relatively speaking) forgiving as all heck towards folks being less than good or even somewhat errant with thier ball striking vs other more difficult courses. Many folks are scoring several strokes (not just 2 or 3 but more like 10 or more) better or worse than they would if playing elsewhere.
I played a course recently that was the most difficult i ever seen. It was a mountain course. Blind spots everywhere, huge elevations, ridiculously steeply sloped fairways, tight as heck layouts, very sloped and fast greens, on 80% of the entire course couldn't barely find a flat spot. I was having a bad day with general ball striking. I lost about 10 balls and after a while (like only 6 holes in) i just stopped keeping score:confused2:.
One small example....on a par 3 (only second hole of the day). Its a huge rollercosater 3 that starts at tee then goes down hill somewhat but then way uphill to a green that may as been an island cause anything other than hitting it in the middle your screwed. So i chunk my tee shot about 20 yards
. Ok so i hit that second shot (a good hit) to the lip of the green
but it rolls off the front and not just off but all the way down the steep hill an now im hiting 3 from like 50 yrds out in the rough. :confused2:.
So now I hit a good 50 yrd pitch but i catch a flyer that flies to the very rear of the green but from well below i see it bounce . Im thinking okIm on right? Wrong......we get up there and i see the back of the green (like only maybe 3 feet from the green) the ground goes sharply downhill and is thick jungle. My ball is no where to be found:confused2:.
I mean at this point im siting 3 but have no clue where my ball is. So technically Im suppose to head back down the hill 50 yrds away to drop 4 and then rehit 5 from where i was before. I called it quits :confused2: whats the sense as even if i did well I assume get on and 2 putt for a quad 7 (and thats assuming nothing else goes wrong and also not 3 putting).
This kind of thing just went on all day in many many different scenarios. It was ridiculous. It was a requirement to play precise golf like Ive never seen before. Anything even flirting just barely outside of less than good golf and you were in for big trouble. I actually did par and also bogey just few holes. But everything else was triples and quads and worse. I probably ended up with about a 120 no kidding.
Point being of course is that course forgiveness can play a huge role in ones average score. The similar golf which produces an 88 for you at one course may produce a 102 at another.
I played a course recently that was the most difficult i ever seen. It was a mountain course. Blind spots everywhere, huge elevations, ridiculously steeply sloped fairways, tight as heck layouts, very sloped and fast greens, on 80% of the entire course couldn't barely find a flat spot. I was having a bad day with general ball striking. I lost about 10 balls and after a while (like only 6 holes in) i just stopped keeping score:confused2:.
One small example....on a par 3 (only second hole of the day). Its a huge rollercosater 3 that starts at tee then goes down hill somewhat but then way uphill to a green that may as been an island cause anything other than hitting it in the middle your screwed. So i chunk my tee shot about 20 yards
. Ok so i hit that second shot (a good hit) to the lip of the green but it rolls off the front and not just off but all the way down the steep hill an now im hiting 3 from like 50 yrds out in the rough. :confused2:.So now I hit a good 50 yrd pitch but i catch a flyer that flies to the very rear of the green but from well below i see it bounce . Im thinking ok
Im on right? Wrong......we get up there and i see the back of the green (like only maybe 3 feet from the green) the ground goes sharply downhill and is thick jungle. My ball is no where to be found:confused2:.I mean at this point im siting 3 but have no clue where my ball is. So technically Im suppose to head back down the hill 50 yrds away to drop 4 and then rehit 5 from where i was before. I called it quits :confused2: whats the sense as even if i did well I assume get on and 2 putt for a quad 7 (and thats assuming nothing else goes wrong and also not 3 putting).
This kind of thing just went on all day in many many different scenarios. It was ridiculous. It was a requirement to play precise golf like Ive never seen before. Anything even flirting just barely outside of less than good golf and you were in for big trouble. I actually did par and also bogey just few holes. But everything else was triples and quads and worse. I probably ended up with about a 120 no kidding.
Point being of course is that course forgiveness can play a huge role in ones average score. The similar golf which produces an 88 for you at one course may produce a 102 at another.
razaar
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Golf is a game of bad shots. Those who shoot scores in the 90's hit more bad shots than those who score in the 80's.
When I started playing the game at age 23 I was given a handicap of 24. It took me six months to break 80, which gave me confidence to expect scores in the 70's. My only assets were a centred swing that kept repeating and the confidence I could hole anything on the green.
When I started playing the game at age 23 I was given a handicap of 24. It took me six months to break 80, which gave me confidence to expect scores in the 70's. My only assets were a centred swing that kept repeating and the confidence I could hole anything on the green.
rollin
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wow....6 months to break 80. Thats incredible.
I been playing for decades and struggle to keep things below 90 (and still most rounds are not).
Its amazing to me how many folks out there this game came so relatively easy for. I mean good for you but thats incredible. I mean even to say shooting sub 90 regularly in just 6 months in itself would be incredible. But braking 80? just wow!
This is a great read. Lots of interesting takes/perspectives, and I agree with a bunch of them. Love hearing how things change for the guys when they score better round to round, or how their game is different scoring better now as opposed to the past.
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This is what the article says and makes sense. My incorrect thought was that the 80 golfer was 10% better than the 90 golfer on every shot. Turns out to not be the case. The 80 golfer is just better 10% of the time.
I played a course a few weekends ago in central Michigan with my wife and a short hitting buddy. They were playing from forward tees so there was no one to "outdrive". Also, it had several super tight holes, where you had a chute of trees to hit the ball thru. Not sure how but I was able to hit good drives almost the whole round. I hooked one ball into some trees that knocked down in play and another hole that was wide open I sliced one into an adjacent fairway. The only drive that cost me, I hit exactly where I was aiming but didn't know there was a pond starting at 250 down the left, big splash!
Luchnia
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The courses you play can have a huge impact on 80s versus 90s scoring. My home course is a challenge - I think 140 Blue - 138 white - 132 gold, or something along those lines. Up and down hills, coffee cup size greens on mounds, blind shots, water on 7 of 9 holes, trees, 90 degree dogleg, you name the lie/position - it probably has it, etc.
The better I average there, the better I play on almost any of the area courses around me. I used to not like playing it so much, but I play it much more now to sharpen my skills and it has helped a lot.
The better I average there, the better I play on almost any of the area courses around me. I used to not like playing it so much, but I play it much more now to sharpen my skills and it has helped a lot.
There's not much worse then bombing a great drive on a new course then finding out it ended up in an unseen hazard.