erock9174
Well-known member
I’ve been trying to get my hands higher at the top of my swing but in doing so I think I have started a reverse pivot. Do I have a reverse pivot going on here ?
Do I have a reverse pivot ?
I’m not teacher nor guru and correct me if I’m wrong to those who know better.
Right hand grip super weak. You’re adding unnatural shoulder tilt. Little/improper wrist hinge causing you to “over swing” back which causes you to get into that reverse pivot position. Your hips kind of slide more than rotate. It seemingly looks like you do ok getting back to the ball though. What do you normal shots look like?
be interested to here from others as well
Right hand grip super weak. You’re adding unnatural shoulder tilt. Little/improper wrist hinge causing you to “over swing” back which causes you to get into that reverse pivot position. Your hips kind of slide more than rotate. It seemingly looks like you do ok getting back to the ball though. What do you normal shots look like?
be interested to here from others as well
erock9174
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #4
To provide some context.
Normally my hands are pretty shallow and my backswing is not this long. I hit the driver pretty well. Short but well. One of the strong pieces of my game is being in play off the tee. I might have one OB or punch out off the tee per round. 62% FIR.
I’ve been measuring swing speeds using my little radar and with driver no matter how much Superspeed sticks I do my driver seems to top out at 92mph. I watched some YouTube videos that said if you can get your hands higher on the backswing it increases your swing arc and speed. I tried this and immediately my swings went to 96-103. I’ve never swung a driver that fast. Issue is I haven’t hit a ball like this with ranges being closed.
I’ve never noticed that bending of my upper body towards the ball Until now though so it has me concerned I might be over doing it with the “high hands”.
Also I’m very inflexible and I think a lot of my bad positions are due to that. Like I have a hard time separating upper and lower body.
Also as for wrist hinge. I’ve never been able to hinge and hit the ball well. I just kinda let it hinge a little naturally.
Normally my hands are pretty shallow and my backswing is not this long. I hit the driver pretty well. Short but well. One of the strong pieces of my game is being in play off the tee. I might have one OB or punch out off the tee per round. 62% FIR.
I’ve been measuring swing speeds using my little radar and with driver no matter how much Superspeed sticks I do my driver seems to top out at 92mph. I watched some YouTube videos that said if you can get your hands higher on the backswing it increases your swing arc and speed. I tried this and immediately my swings went to 96-103. I’ve never swung a driver that fast. Issue is I haven’t hit a ball like this with ranges being closed.
I’ve never noticed that bending of my upper body towards the ball Until now though so it has me concerned I might be over doing it with the “high hands”.
Also I’m very inflexible and I think a lot of my bad positions are due to that. Like I have a hard time separating upper and lower body.
Also as for wrist hinge. I’ve never been able to hinge and hit the ball well. I just kinda let it hinge a little naturally.
- Moderator
- #5
I have a couple questions for you;
1- Are you able to see the ball location with both eyes at the top of your swing? It looks like your head is turned an exceptional amount at the top, and seems like your body is having to do a fair bit of unnatural (as it relates to swing) movement there in order to get where you're trying to be.
2- Is there a story behind the forward press setup? Your left wrist is rolled pretty aggressively to compensate, but just curious it's a step away from the norm you see out there;
1- Are you able to see the ball location with both eyes at the top of your swing? It looks like your head is turned an exceptional amount at the top, and seems like your body is having to do a fair bit of unnatural (as it relates to swing) movement there in order to get where you're trying to be.
2- Is there a story behind the forward press setup? Your left wrist is rolled pretty aggressively to compensate, but just curious it's a step away from the norm you see out there;
- Moderator
- #6
One of the most telling ways (in my opinion) to represent power in a golf swing is how your body deals with the follow through. It should be flowing with a natural release through the zone and upward from there. If there's a disconnect of power somewhere in the swing, typically, I think that's where you tend to see some variance.
Once again drawing from Adam and you;
His power has properly transferred into his front half (leg) while maintaining balance with his head and shoulders behind the ball position. His front leg is straight (what I like to call finishing 'tall') and his right arm is allowing a full extension with the club.
When the club and body aren't in absolute harmony (read: most of us golfers lol) there tends to be a visible disconnect between the shaft line and the right arm. What I think, based on watching your swing, is that weight isn't fully being transferred into that front leg for you before contact, and you're having to make a bit of an upward move and pull back in order to maintain that balance.
The problem with that, of course, is that we need to use our body (arms/shoulders) or the ground (legs) to generate excessive speed. Without those conditions, we're left with pieces of solid movements without the full puzzle solved.
My encouragement to you, as you've noted a lack of flexibility, is to assess swings like Jon Rahm, or Tony Finau. For Rahmer, the top of his swing is nowhere close to parallel (and I am super jealous hahaha)
Absolute top right here:
Also interesting about Rahm, is that his contact position is damn near your setup position, so it might be a guy worth emulating;
Once again drawing from Adam and you;
His power has properly transferred into his front half (leg) while maintaining balance with his head and shoulders behind the ball position. His front leg is straight (what I like to call finishing 'tall') and his right arm is allowing a full extension with the club.
When the club and body aren't in absolute harmony (read: most of us golfers lol) there tends to be a visible disconnect between the shaft line and the right arm. What I think, based on watching your swing, is that weight isn't fully being transferred into that front leg for you before contact, and you're having to make a bit of an upward move and pull back in order to maintain that balance.
The problem with that, of course, is that we need to use our body (arms/shoulders) or the ground (legs) to generate excessive speed. Without those conditions, we're left with pieces of solid movements without the full puzzle solved.
My encouragement to you, as you've noted a lack of flexibility, is to assess swings like Jon Rahm, or Tony Finau. For Rahmer, the top of his swing is nowhere close to parallel (and I am super jealous hahaha)
Absolute top right here:
Also interesting about Rahm, is that his contact position is damn near your setup position, so it might be a guy worth emulating;
erock9174
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #7
1.— I feel like my body just wants to turn in one big unit. Head and all. I feel like my head stays in position. Then I look at the video and it’s turning away from the target. I think both eyes are staying on Ball though. Although my right eye is close to not being able to see it.
2. I had a more normal setup years ago and had a pretty bad two way miss that got frustrating.
a buddy of mine saw a video of mine and Made a comment on how far back my hands were so I moved them forward and now for the most part it’s a 1 way miss (usually a pull hook).Haven’t faded a drive since. I know my grip is strong but when I weaken it, its usually a slice 3 fairways over. The strong grip, delofting at impact and draw can be frustrating at times too but as long as my driver has enough loft it usually tames it.
erock9174
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #8
Dan, thanks for all the info. Alot to digest here. I am not even certain I will go with this high hands type swing, but I will try and take a video tomorrow of my more normal-ish driver swing. I am not sure it's any better fundamentally but will be interesting to see and compare. Thanks again.
- Moderator
- #9
Looking forward to watching!
Arnie said swing your swing! Just need to find what works for you.
razaar
Well-known member
@erock9174
Your body pivot is fine, it is not a reverse pivot. What you are doing is the correct way to use he spine during he backswing.
Your body pivot is fine, it is not a reverse pivot. What you are doing is the correct way to use he spine during he backswing.
erock9174
Well-known member
- Moderator
- #19
Hey @erock9174 sorry it took me some extra time to get back to this one!! I've got a couple grabs I want to share because I think they are awesome.
This is Jon Rahm again, figured he was a good one to use since he doesn't utilize a ton of back swing to create it. Here is his video for reference;
You mentioned how you're trying to increase speed, but I think what might be better, is to increase efficiency in the swing you have.
The first grab is a reference to how you both start to transition the club down. The second is all about where the shaft/clubhead are as your left arm gets aligned with your front leg. Where you're throwing the head hard by the second grab, Jon is still maintaining most of that power to release soon into the ball with extreme force.
This is critical because an early release can destroy most of the power behind a swing. Kind of like throwing a baseball with a fully extended arm, it's not going very far without that properly timed coil/compression of the throwing motion. There are some great drills out there to find the bottom of the swing with this move, including things like Orange whip or just taking practice swings with a piece of paper taped to the base of the shaft - You can actually hear it make extra noise when that release is occuring.
Second critical note, watch how Jon leverages his lower body to transition power. He's absolutely moving his weight forward into his leading foot, but keep a close eye on how he leverages the ground inertia with his trailing foot. That is a bit and important component of power in a swing if you want it to be.
This is Jon Rahm again, figured he was a good one to use since he doesn't utilize a ton of back swing to create it. Here is his video for reference;
You mentioned how you're trying to increase speed, but I think what might be better, is to increase efficiency in the swing you have.
The first grab is a reference to how you both start to transition the club down. The second is all about where the shaft/clubhead are as your left arm gets aligned with your front leg. Where you're throwing the head hard by the second grab, Jon is still maintaining most of that power to release soon into the ball with extreme force.
This is critical because an early release can destroy most of the power behind a swing. Kind of like throwing a baseball with a fully extended arm, it's not going very far without that properly timed coil/compression of the throwing motion. There are some great drills out there to find the bottom of the swing with this move, including things like Orange whip or just taking practice swings with a piece of paper taped to the base of the shaft - You can actually hear it make extra noise when that release is occuring.
Second critical note, watch how Jon leverages his lower body to transition power. He's absolutely moving his weight forward into his leading foot, but keep a close eye on how he leverages the ground inertia with his trailing foot. That is a bit and important component of power in a swing if you want it to be.
I haven't seen your question answered directly yet, so thought I'd chime in.
No, you are not reversing. Close, but not a reverse.
Canadian called it with his "Second critical note":
You have a form of a sway, where your weight gets to the outside of your trail (right) foot. It's most noticeable in your second driver video. Panel 1 below is the top of your swing. It's impossible to make a positive change of direction from there, and will invariably cause lunging and casting. In your case, you move your upper body toward the target from the top (note your head position in Panel 2), which is why it may feel like a reverse. You are subconsciously trying to gain the leverage (with the ground) you instinctively know you don't have. Without that leverage, dynamics of a swinging club and change of direction are lost, and you have no choice but to cast, release early. The fix is to keep the right knee flexed and in as close to it's starting position as possible, weight on the inside of the foot. Study the top position of John Rahm that Canadian posted, and compare with yours, especially the right leg. His is still flexed, and the knee is well inside the foot, still pointed to the camera. Your knee is still flexed, but outside the foot, and pointed behind you. Also note in panel 2, your right leg/knee are just now getting back into a similar position as Rahm's at the top, and you are half way into your down swing.
The problem with keeping your right knee in position is it will make your swing feel restricted/short, and that's a hard psychological barrier to overcome. For that reason, if you experiment with this, I'd strongly suggest using nothing more than a 7 iron, and hit little half swings with it. In other words, forget how far you can hit it. Just hit little 100 yard shots, focusing on keeping the lower body stable, right knee stable and kicked in a bit. Swing back until you feel resistance, then let the club fall back into the ball. If for now that's just hands waist high, that's fine. If you manage your knees well, you lower body will perform just fine, and deliver your upper body into the ball in sequence and on time. You will probably be amazed at how far you hit it with such a "little" swing, all because your timing will have been improved.
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I am no expert, but I think you sway a bit on your back swing. A test would be how much of your weight gets outside your right foot on your backswing. For consistency you really want to keep your weight inside your right foot on your backswing. If you look at @Canadan's last photo your weight is all outside your right foot. Left foot is off the ground and the inside of your right foot isn't on the ground either.
As an aside @Canadan how did you not come back with Moe Norman after looking at that address?
As an aside @Canadan how did you not come back with Moe Norman after looking at that address?
Are those shots going anywhere though?
I have absolutley nothing to add in repsect to the advice provided in this thread. I wanted to thank erock for the question and by the way your grass looks awesome!! It was like a mini-masterclass in driver fundamentals. I am working to find my driver swing and seeing the videos that Dan provided gave me encouragement. I will come back to this thread often just for the info. Thanks
- Staff
- #25
They are. Moe was considered by many the greatest ball striker EVER.