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Golfers arrested for playing golf

Space Bandito said:
I hope they get sentenced to visit you for a while. At least you guys have something to talk about.
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Yep, our government just enacted similar law... except the jail terms here could be up to 6 months!
 
pattyboy21 said:
I'm way concerned at how easily we can lose our (already diminished) freedoms and slip into a police state with something like this COVID crisis. I shared this post on FB today:

Dear Chancellor,

As Emeritus of the Johannes-Gutenberg-University in Mainz and longtime director of the Institute for Medical Microbiology, I feel obliged to critically question the far-reaching restrictions on public life that we are currently taking on ourselves in order to reduce the spread of the COVID-19 virus.

It is expressly not my intention to play down the dangers of the virus or to spread a political message. However, I feel it is my duty to make a scientific contribution to putting the current data and facts into perspective – and, in addition, to ask questions that are in danger of being lost in the heated debate.
The reason for my concern lies above all in the truly unforeseeable socio-economic consequences of the drastic containment measures which are currently being applied in large parts of Europe and which are also already being practiced on a large scale in Germany.
My wish is to discuss critically – and with the necessary foresight – the advantages and disadvantages of restricting public life and the resulting long-term effects.
To this end, I am confronted with five questions which have not been answered sufficiently so far, but which are indispensable for a balanced analysis.
I would like to ask you to comment quickly and, at the same time, appeal to the Federal Government to develop strategies that effectively protect risk groups without restricting public life across the board and sow the seeds for an even more intensive polarization of society than is already taking place.
With the utmost respect,
Prof. em. Dr. med. Sucharit Bhakdi
* * *
1. Statistics
In infectiology – founded by Robert Koch himself – a traditional distinction is made between infection and disease. An illness requires a clinical manifestation. Therefore, only patients with symptoms such as fever or cough should be included in the statistics as new cases.
In other words, a new infection – as measured by the COVID-19 test – does not necessarily mean that we are dealing with a newly ill patient who needs a hospital bed. However, it is currently assumed that five percent of all infected people become seriously ill and require ventilation. Projections based on this estimate suggest that the healthcare system could be overburdened.
My question:
Did the projections make a distinction between symptom-free infected people and actual, sick patients – i.e. people who develop symptoms.
2. Danger Level
A number of coronaviruses have been circulating for a long time – largely unnoticed by the media. If it should turn out that the COVID-19 virus should not be ascribed a significantly higher risk potential than the already circulating corona viruses, all countermeasures would obviously become unnecessary.
The internationally recognized International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents will soon publish a paper that addresses exactly this question. Preliminary results of the study can already be seen today and lead to the conclusion that the new virus is NOT different from traditional corona viruses in terms of dangerousness. The authors express this in the title of their paper „SARS-CoV-2: Fear versus Data“.
My question:
How does the current workload of intensive care units with patients with diagnosed COVID-19 compare to other coronavirus infections, and to what extent will this data be taken into account in further decision-making by the federal government? In addition: Has the above study been taken into account in the planning so far? Here too, of course, „diagnosed“ means that the virus plays a decisive role in the patient’s state of illness, and not that previous illnesses play a greater role.
3. Dissemination
According to a report in the Süddeutsche Zeitung, not even the much-cited Robert Koch Institute knows exactly how much is tested for COVID-19. It is a fact, however, that a rapid increase in the number of cases has recently been observed in Germany as the volume of tests increases.
It is therefore reasonable to suspect that the virus has already spread unnoticed in the healthy population. This would have two consequences: firstly, it would mean that the official death rate – on 26 March 2020, for example, there were 206 deaths from around 37,300 infections, or 0.55 percent – is too high; and secondly, it would mean that it would hardly be possible to prevent the virus from spreading in the healthy population.
My question:
Has there already been a random sample of the healthy general population to validate the real spread of the virus, or is this planned in the near future?
4. Mortality
The fear of a rise in the death rate in Germany (currently 0.55 percent) is currently the subject of particularly intense media attention. Many people are worried that it could shoot up like in Italy (10 percent) and Spain (7 percent) if action is not taken in time.At the same time, the mistake is being made worldwide to report virus-related deaths as soon as it is established that the virus was present at the time of death – regardless of other factors. This violates a basic principle of infectiology: only when it is certain that an agent has played a significant role in the disease or death may a diagnosis be made. The Association of the Scientific Medical Societies of Germany expressly writes in its guidelines: „In addition to the cause of death, a causal chain must be stated, with the corresponding underlying disease in third place on the death certificate. Occasionally, four-linked causal chains must also be stated.“
At present there is no official information on whether, at least in retrospect, more critical analyses of medical records have been undertaken to determine how many deaths were actually caused by the virus.
My question:
Has Germany simply followed this trend of a COVID-19 general suspicion? And: is it intended to continue this categorisation uncritically as in other countries? How, then, is a distinction to be made between genuine corona-related deaths and accidental virus presence at the time of death?
5. Comparability
The appalling situation in Italy is repeatedly used as a reference scenario. However, the true role of the virus in that country is completely unclear for many reasons – not only because points 3 and 4 above also apply here, but also because exceptional external factors exist which make these regions particularly vulnerable.
One of these factors is the increased air pollution in the north of Italy. According to WHO estimates, this situation, even without the virus, led to over 8,000 additional deaths per year in 2006 in the 13 largest cities in Italy alone. [7] The situation has not changed significantly since then. [8] Finally, it has also been shown that air pollution greatly increases the risk of viral lung diseases in very young and elderly people. [9]
Moreover, 27.4 percent of the particularly vulnerable population in this country live with young people, and in Spain as many as 33.5 percent. In Germany, the figure is only seven percent [10]. In addition, according to Prof. Dr. Reinhard Busse, head of the Department of Management in Health Care at the TU Berlin, Germany is significantly better equipped than Italy in terms of intensive care units – by a factor of about 2.5 [11].
My question:
What efforts are being made to make the population aware of these elementary differences and to make people understand that scenarios like those in Italy or Spain are not realistic here?
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What is your position on the current state situation in New York?
 
-CRW- said:
This is some nanny state BS. Let’s say they live 50 miles from the course. How is the imaginary state line going to protect the course compared to the residents of the state that live 50 miles from the course in a different direction.

If they are that concerned, the courses should be shut down to everyone. And no, I don’t think any course should be closed. I just think people should use their brains and they will be fine.
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Exactly. So much for free travel.
 
Below is a link to data from a research group quoted by Dr. Fauci including a national and state-by-state breakdown of hospital resources needed and total projected deaths.

I can stop golfing for awhile if it helps others.

covid19.healthdata.org

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.
covid19.healthdata.org covid19.healthdata.org
 
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They were in violation of the RI quarantine order. So, I have no problem with them being charged.


For all the lawyers out there, do you think they should raise the defense of Necessity. I’m only joking but a creative argument could be raised to bring the defense into play. At least among golfers:
 
Bernoulli said:
They were in violation of the RI quarantine order. So, I have no problem with them being charged.


For all the lawyers out there, do you think they should raise the defense of Necessity. I’m only joking but a creative argument could be raised to bring the defense into play. At least among golfers:
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This is not a discussion that can be had without getting political so I'll bow out and go get my posts elsewhere in respect for JB's and Golfergal's wishes.
 
Bold! Either dumb, or love the game that much. Maybe both.
 
Potential punishment for breaking laws is supposed to be a deterrent. The publicity these bozos got for getting caught may get others to think twice about contravening the orders for virus concerns in other places too. So in a weird way, I guess, thanks bozos. :)
 
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Why would you park in Mcds? Aren't they closed except for the drive thru? So you bring more attention to yourself just by doing so. Idiots ;)
 
myspinonit said:
Potential punishment for breaking laws is supposed to be a deterrent. The publicity these bozos got for getting caught may get others to think twice about contravening the orders for virus concerns in other places too. So in a weird way, I guess, thanks bozos. :)
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Edit: I just heard on the local news that an expected 400, 000 Canadains are expected to be returning shorty, some from Covid hotspots around the world. While they are supposed to Self- Quarantine for 14 days (not even going out to get their own groceries) I'm concerned. Would I support someone reporting ones that don't follow the rules? YOU BET.
 
Self inflicted wounds.

I hope they get what they deserve.
 
This is probably a futile argument to those that have already made up their mind, but, how do we know these men didn't quarantine themselves in their home state before driving to RI?
 
myspinonit said:
Gotcha. So you are cool for a couple of thousand New Yorkers to come to Edmond, OK right now.
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As long as they stay 6' away. I'm game. I'm holed up in my house most of the time anyway. I have door locks to protect them from what's inside my house.
 
MagicSpell said:
This is probably a futile argument to those that have already made up their mind, but, how do we know these men didn't quarantine themselves in their home state before driving to RI?
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We don't, but it doesn't matter. They broke the law either way. Knowingly. So, consequences and move on for them I guess.
 
I'm surprised more aren't annoyed by the potential jail time - that destroys a life, doesn't it?

Love that they are getting fined - and frankly I think the fine is too low, but man... jail time?!
 
golfinnut said:
Why would you park in Mcds? Aren't they closed except for the drive thru? So you bring more attention to yourself just by doing so. Idiots ;)
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I am just hoping they got a juicy Mcdouble as their last meal before prison :ROFLMAO:
 
Canadan said:
I'm surprised more aren't annoyed by the potential jail time - that destroys a life, doesn't it?

Love that they are getting fined - and frankly I think the fine is too low, but man... jail time?!
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Imagine explaining that in a job interview..

Boss: "So I see here you served 90 days in prison, what was it? Theft? Domestic abuse?"
Idiots: "Uh well, look.. I am really passionate about golf and I may have snuck on to a course to shoot 123. it was worth it."
 
NateG<80 said:
Imagine explaining that in a job interview..

Boss: "So I see here you served 90 days in prison, what was it? Theft? Domestic abuse?"
Idiots: "Uh well, look.. I am really passionate about golf and I may have snuck on to a course to shoot 123. it was worth it."
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haha, yeah... I do think checking that box is a deal breaker for many. That's a tough thing to drop on someone.
 
I’d like to see them have a fine and not much more. I agree that it shouldn’t happen and they need to be made an example of.
 
Canadan said:
haha, yeah... I do think checking that box is a deal breaker for many. That's a tough thing to drop on someone.
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They won’t get time, but they’ll get a fine
 
Molten said:
I’d like to see them have a fine and not much more. I agree that it shouldn’t happen and they need to be made an example of.
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Exactly.

Give a guy a 3,000 dollar fine, it hits in the feels.
Give him a jail sentence, it destroys his life.

What makes more sense here?

note: Do it twice and get caught? Yeah man, send them packing for 90 days. No help from me there lmao
 
Canadan said:
haha, yeah... I do think checking that box is a deal breaker for many. That's a tough thing to drop on someone.
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No doubt. Hard to come back from, unless you have a chance to truly explain. But still..
 
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