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How forgiveness impacts progress

SuperStroke
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I think our opinions are shaped by our experiences, and two people can have opposite positions, and both be right. Because that is what worked for them. I do appreciate the opinions expressed here (as always!), and feel like if I am going to use a more demanding club, it would be for practice only. I can see a benefit to that, but it shouldn't be all or nothing. To me. That doesn't mean the next person wouldn't fully benefit from learning with SGI clubs, or blades from day one. You just need to find your own path, and own the consequences.
 
Haha so also in full disclosure, I'm now hard pondering a combo set 545, 745, 945 set up. Play what you want to play haha


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robmypro said:
And I think I have AP2 fever. LOL
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I have a set and love them. I was alternating the AP2 and the 945's almost every round this year.


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robmypro said:
And I think I have AP2 fever. LOL
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If you are going to buy new, I think the DG AMT shafts that will come stock in the 716 AP2's are going to be well received.
 
robmypro said:
I appreciate your feedback buddy! Let me ask you this. I was a bit confused yesterday by how well I hit the AP2 3i. Would you say that set is too big of a jump? I am starting to wonder if hitting these Eye 2's has somehow forced me to hit more consistently, and now something like the AP2 seems more forgiving? Is that even possible? I went back and forth with the Eye 2 and AP2 3i, and I just couldn't hit the Eye 2 3i at all. I just couldn't get a lot of really crisp hits with the Eye 2 (maybe 1 in 5, if that), with lots of distance loss, while the AP2 was 4 out of 5 good hits. It seemed almost...automatic?

On the course my iron play is usually not the problem, unless I have uneven lies. I guess I just confused by what happened yesterday. In any case, the Eye 2's are not getting sold.
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I think... and I have no experience with the eye2 but have hit the ap2... that the ap2 is in actuality a more forgiving club... I also think you won't gain much by practicing with a 3 iron. You will gain much more repeatability and practical feedback from an 8 or a 7.
 
Wicked Cool Bearded Man said:
because of launch and spin, my misses we not as predictable as my misses were with the blades or blade like sets.
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This is the same experience I have had... and I have read some articles supporting this claim and backing it with launch monitor data. But even those articles had disclaimers that the data can't be applied to everyone.
 
-CRW- said:
If you are going to buy new, I think the DG AMT shafts that will come stock in the 716 AP2's are going to be well received.
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Thanks?!
 
YetiLooper said:
I think... and I have no experience with the eye2 but have hit the ap2... that the ap2 is in actuality a more forgiving club... I also think you won't gain much by practicing with a 3 iron. You will gain much more repeatability and practical feedback from an 8 or a 7.
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I looked up the Maltby numbers, and they show that the AP2 is far less forgiving. Who do I believe? Them, or my lying eyes?

Thanks for the advice on the 7/8i. I will keep that in mind.
 
robmypro said:
I looked up the Maltby numbers, and they show that the AP2 is far less forgiving. Who do I believe? Them, or my lying eyes?

Thanks for the advice on the 7/8i. I will keep that in mind.
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I would trust Maltby more than me. But there could be several other factors at play. Lie angle would be 1st. Keeping in mind though that forgiveness, as I understand it, has more to do with maintaining ball speed on mishits. It doesn't necessarily translate to more accurate. There are elements that help normal misses though. Toe weighting, lower COG, and sole design that can impact how a club works with your swing.
 
How forgiveness impacts progress

robmypro said:
I looked up the Maltby numbers, and they show that the AP2 is far less forgiving. Who do I believe? Them, or my lying eyes?

Thanks for the advice on the 7/8i. I will keep that in mind.
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I think what you might be seeing/feeling is new technology masking for forgiveness. Related, also, feel for forgiveness. They are cousins, but not the same. Just a guess though. In all honestly having hit and gamed both, the Pings are more forgiving- read distance loss on mishits or lateral misses.


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Wicked Cool Bearded Man said:
I think what you might be seeing/feeling is new technology masking for forgiveness. Related, also, feel for forgiveness. They are cousins, but not the same. Just a guess though. In all honestly having hit and gamed both, the Pings are more forgiving- read distance loss on mishits or lateral misses.
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Could be! What I do know is I hit many balls with each, one after the other, and the AP2 just felt easier to hit. And misses were longer, and dispersion was better. But there are so many variables. I am going for another test, and will also try to hit a few other clubs. For all I know, the 3i was an anomaly, and I won't have the same experience with a 7 or 8i. I need to find out.
 
YetiLooper said:
I would trust Maltby more than me. But there could be several other factors at play. Lie angle would be 1st. Keeping in mind though that forgiveness, as I understand it, has more to do with maintaining ball speed on mishits. It doesn't necessarily translate to more accurate. There are elements that help normal misses though. Toe weighting, lower COG, and sole design that can impact how a club works with your swing.
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I think there must be other factors at play. Going to hit more with them and others, and see if I can come to any conclusions.
 
caeleric said:
i see what you did there :)

words on a screen never communicate as effectively as words spoken. tone is almost always lost.
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This^^^ bolded X 100

I think whenever participating in a polarizing discussion like this we need to remember that communication via text is not a substitute for face-to-face communication. I haven't met any of the posters in question, but I don't think anyone should take things personally... especially on a message board

I don't know blu, but from what I've read he seems like a cool guy with a good bit of golf knowledge. IMO in this thread he has been knowledgeable, blunt, and concise... but I don't think that he has been disrespectful.

Arguments are good for this community! This generates debate and discussion... it gets knowledge out there. There is no need to feel slighted if someone disagrees. Being blunt and concise gets to the heart of the issue...
 
YetiLooper said:
I think... and I have no experience with the eye2 but have hit the ap2... that the ap2 is in actuality a more forgiving club... I also think you won't gain much by practicing with a 3 iron. You will gain much more repeatability and practical feedback from an 8 or a 7.
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You're comparing the godfather of the cavity back design with a wide sole and perimeter weighting with that of a forged players iron with far less offset. Sure co pared to todays sgi offerings the original eye 2 is a far smaller club head bud the design, casting and cog is still there. While the AP2 is a forgiving players iron that could fall into the gi iron category they still sting a little when you don't hit em on the screws.
 
robmypro said:
Thanks?!
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If you haven't already, do some reading on the AMT shafts. There is an info thread on THP on them. Basically they ascend in weight from the 3 iron up to the wedge shafts with a pretty big gap in total weight. But according to True Temper they are meant to maintain a constant swing weight across the set.

It makes sense, since just about every player does he same when going from driver, to 3 wood, to hybrids, to irons, etc.
 
-CRW- said:
If you haven't already, do some reading on the AMT shafts. There is an info thread on THP on them. Basically they ascend in weight from the 3 iron up to the wedge shafts with a pretty big gap in total weight. But according to True Temper they are meant to maintain a constant swing weight across the set.

It makes sense, since just about every player does he same when going from driver, to 3 wood, to hybrids, to irons, etc.
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Wow I dont think Id benefit at all from that I like heavy wedges at a d2 swing weight preferably.
 
Bobby Purify said:
Wow I dont think Id benefit at all from that I like heavy wedges at a d2 swing weight preferably.
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Wouldn't a heavy shafted wedge have a higher swing weight? I may be wrong. I don't worry about swing weight really
 
Bobby Purify said:
Wow I dont think Id benefit at all from that I like heavy wedges at a d2 swing weight preferably.
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The wedges are 130 grams in X100 flex (some of the heaviest shafts you'll find) and D2 is a normal to light swing weight.
 
blugold said:
Wouldn't a heavy shafted wedge have a higher swing weight? I may be wrong. I don't worry about swing weight really
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Its a relationship of total weight to head weight, but generally yes. Most wedges are D4 to D5 stock.
 
I'm a big believer in combo sets wether that is a cavity in long irons and muscle backs in the shorter irons or SGI in the long irons and GI in the shorter irons. Most people will benefit from more forgiveness in long irons.


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Hello robmypro, and all other fellow THP'ers....fascinating thread, by the way Rob! Although I am new to the forums, I thought I would chime-in. I am 54, and grew-up playing blades, as there were no cavity-backs in the 60's and 70's. My folks bought me a beginner set of McGregor Jack Nicklaus Golden Bear irons and woods. (blades) I learned to hit them well or else take-up tennis.....

After a time, I outgrew the set, and was playing team sports (baseball), and virtually no golf at all. 20 yrs. later here I am wanting to play golf again, and suddenly I'm in the market for some clubs, so my dad gives me a set of Northwestern mid-size cb's, with a reg. stiffness graphite shaft. Couldn't score with them, so I decided to go the used vintage ebay route. bought a set of Wilson/Staff dyna-power 2-pw made in 1967, with newer, stiffer steel shafts, for about $350 dollars. I figured with these that I could get a nice set of blades, and not need to shell-out $900 for a new set.

Long story short, I am really enjoying the challenge of hitting blades purely, and accurately. Granted it's not for everyone, and I may have some advantages in terms of hand/eye coordination than the avg. Joe, having played div. 1 ncaa baseball. Although I am still putting-in a lot of range time to get these dialed-in to where I want to be on the golf course, I am thankful that I chose this route, as it's very rewarding when I hit one flush during a round. For me, the thrill of being able to play blades is where it's at......
 
FWIW I went to less forgiving club to make me work harder on improving. It worked. Of course that's just my opinion on it.
 
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