Is Cobra Redefining Iron Price?

[Sox_Fan]

Yes, right now off course Cobra is ahead of Titleist in iron sales, and by quite a bit. Combined on and off, I would say that it gets closer though.

I had no idea that was the case. Was just making an erroneous assumption from my limited knowledge. I know a lot of THPers play Cobra but never see anyone else playing Cobra irons. And I am the only guy that plays Hogans. Of course, I am in the sheltered sticks. ?

 

[robrandalgz]

I'm not sure I would say that they're redefining the iron price because, in order to actually do that, you would be forcing the big dogs (Callaway, TaylorMade, etc.) to dial it back to your level and I'm not sure that's ever going to happen. But, I DO think that they are carving out their own following and telling the world "Hey, we've got every bit of tech that the big boys do and we're willing to bring this whole thing down to a reasonable comparative cost". That following grows by the day, as it should.

I'm not going to lie, I'm a Callaway fan boy to the core. They'll almost always get the first swing from me and in my heart, I'm going to hope they win out in my bag. I'm hoping to do a full iron fitting this next year. I'll insist that a Callaway offering is included in the evaluation. I'll also insist that I see what Cobra, TaylorMade, Titleist (that almost makes me gag saying it), PING (ditto to the Titleist), Mizuno and Tour Edge (if they have them in their fitting room) is part of the eval. As much as it might break my heart to NOT have Callaway win out, I've got to trust what's actually best for me. Gonna be honest, though, if it's close between Callaway and another Callaway will probably win out. Theoretically speaking, though, if the numbers were super close between Callaway and Cobra and the Cobra set is $300.00-400.00 less? Hmmmm, looks like I'm a Cobra guy.

 

[CBaker]

Doesn't Hogan have even better prices? Or am I imagining that?

 

[robrandalgz]

The thing is, I'm reminded of a conversation I had with someone who works at Edwin Watts about selling irons, and he mentioned that very few people walk in and say, "I heard about hollow-body players distance irons, let's have a look at some." They say, "I want the new TaylorMade P790's because I'm a TaylorMade guy and those things look sweet." From there it's kinda on the player to want their mind changed. If I've already got it in my head that I'm ready to spent $1300 on a set of irons, because I like TaylorMade irons and those are what I want because those are the best, Cobra has to do more than be "about the same" and $200 cheaper to change minds.

Something else, because I've watched a lot of comparison videos and reviews and people seem to really like the Forged Tec irons, but the moment I'm on the internet for golf stuff, I enter a much smaller layer of the golfing onion. So I agree that the conversations about how Cobra's irons hang with anyone elses while being a couple hundred less are good and help move Cobra foward as a brand in the eyes of golfing nerds like you and me. I'm just not sure it does it for the rest of the golfing world that doesn't give a turd about what some internet golfer like you and me has to say about it.

This 100%. Hell look at my post above. When I walk into a PGASS, I walk straight to the Callaway bay to hit the latest iron. I've got to be a lot more open minded this next season when I get fitted.

 

[jim54]

I think they are just being realistic in pricing and not trying to outright rape the public, I know R&D is expensive but most all iron heads cost under $25 to make and most way, way under that at the quantities they order even with forged tungsten super duper tech.

 

[JB]

Doesn't Hogan have even better prices? Or am I imagining that?

I think they probably do. One is a DTC though and the other can be found in stores.

 

[Bernoulli]

I wish that was the case. I bet the signal they are sending to uninformed consumers however is that they are an inferior product. If we don't start rewarding the Cobra's and the Tour Edge's of the world with sales when they release well priced equipment and instead buy the higher priced stuff we complain about, then we have no one to blame but ourselves for the ever increasing prices.

I think it's beneficial to see such products at this price. We'll see if it can be sustained .

In addition to being "uniformed", the initial thought for many consumers with regards to golf irons is that if it's more expensive it has to be better. I think it can be difficult to define what constitutes the reasonably priced market. It will be interesting to see going forward the extent of the market for these clubs at this price

 

[buckeyewalt]

The sky is not the limit on club prices. I think the manufacturers are testing different designs and price points to see what clicks with the golfing community. Several years ago I used to trade irons almost at will not thinking about the end cost(because the clubs weren't that expensive) only what I like and the technology behind it. Now I'm being more selective with cost coming into the picture more and more as club prices increase.

 

[OITW]

After seeing many of the new iron prices for late 2019 and 2020 reach pretty significant dollar values, I can't help but notice Cobra's price points on two of their new releases.

The Forged Tec at 1,100.
T-Rail at 899.

What do you think this represents;

-A company looking to gain traction in a flooded market?
-A new price precedent moving forward?

It's hard to argue that they are not as tech forward as most. All kinds of moving parts to create such designs. They are a good 300-500 cheaper than some similar designs.

Yes, when you look at the two releases that they've put out there in the last couple of weeks.

Compare them to similar offerings from other OEMs that have their equipment priced higher, they definitely are and I think they'll get a lot more attention from people and hopefully more homes in bags.

I do think you'll get the few who are on the side of higher price = higher quality, but then they just need to try it out right?

Great thread. Should stimulate some good convo.

 

[BigDill]

I think that it has to be the former. As has been said above, some, and perhaps most, people do not go into a store being brand agnostic. In order to be competitive to those players, I think Cobra needs to earn a hard look by representing a significant savings when price points are compared one to the other. Its really impressive what they have done on the tech side with their latest offerings.

I really hope to find some graphite shafted Forged Tecs to try out. Top to bottom (sans putter) in a bag, I am not sure you will find a better value lineup from any other manufacturer.

 

[Canadan]

The thing is, I'm reminded of a conversation I had with someone who works at Edwin Watts about selling irons, and he mentioned that very few people walk in and say, "I heard about hollow-body players distance irons, let's have a look at some." They say, "I want the new TaylorMade P790's because I'm a TaylorMade guy and those things look sweet." From there it's kinda on the player to want their mind changed. If I've already got it in my head that I'm ready to spent $1300 on a set of irons, because I like TaylorMade irons and those are what I want because those are the best, Cobra has to do more than be "about the same" and $200 cheaper to change minds.

Something else, because I've watched a lot of comparison videos and reviews and people seem to really like the Forged Tec irons, but the moment I'm on the internet for golf stuff, I enter a much smaller layer of the golfing onion. So I agree that the conversations about how Cobra's irons hang with anyone elses while being a couple hundred less are good and help move Cobra foward as a brand in the eyes of golfing nerds like you and me. I'm just not sure it does it for the rest of the golfing world that doesn't give a turd about what some internet golfer like you and me has to say about it.

If I'm working at a golf store, and I want to sweeten the pot for someone, I'm giving them what they went, then putting something else that might be cheaper in their hands that could perform equally as well (or better).

And I've watched some of the online reviews, which seem to focus FAR too much on brand versus quality. Bias well in play. The reality is, like we've seen in the past, cream always rises to the top. Brand can only go so far.

 

[Canadan]

Doesn't Hogan have even better prices? Or am I imagining that?

The problem with Hogan is accessibility. Hell, I'm about as connected as a consumer can be to the golf industry, and still haven't hit the PTX despite genuinely wanting to.

And maybe that's also a problem for Cobra to an extent. I've asked my pro numerous times to get some product in hand, and he said dealing with Cobra is awful.

 

[JB]

The problem with Hogan is accessibility. Hell, I'm about as connected as a consumer can be to the golf industry, and still haven't hit the PTX despite genuinely wanting to.

And maybe that's also a problem for Cobra to an extent. I've asked my pro numerous times to get some product in hand, and he said dealing with Cobra is awful.

I hate hearing this, because far too many times, its not awful, its just not familiar and easy. My old head pro said the same thing. Guess what? He never contacted them. Instead, wanted his staff deal and some extra freebies.

 

[BigDill]

If I'm working at a golf store, and I want to sweeten the pot for someone, I'm giving them what they went, then putting something else that might be cheaper in their hands that could perform equally as well (or better).

And I've watched some of the online reviews, which seem to focus FAR too much on brand versus quality. Bias well in play. The reality is, like we've seen in the past, cream always rises to the top. Brand can only go so far.

I wish that every salesperson took that approach. Unfortunately, that has not been my experience, at all. I have found that most salespeople have pushed their own brand bias at me (which as an aside is why informative places like THP are so important).

I recently went through a fitting with my father in law who is 67, mid HC and a 85 mph driver swing speed. For the irons, he was not provided the F9s to try until I specifically requested it (and even then had the wrong shaft) and for drivers, he was not provided the Epic Flash or the F9 until I requested those as well.

 

[Canadan]

I hate hearing this, because far too many times, its not awful, its just not familiar and easy. My old head pro said the same thing. Guess what? He never contacted them. Instead, wanted his staff deal and some extra freebies.

I'm going to keep pursuing it. I think not having products like F9 available to our membership does a disservice to them.

I think it's genuine though. He's always very forward thinking.

 

[Canadan]

I wish that every salesperson took that approach. Unfortunately, that has not been my experience, at all. I have found that most salespeople have pushed their own brand bias at me (which as an aside is why informative places like THP are so important).

I recently went through a fitting with my father in law who is 67, mid HC and a 85 mph driver swing speed. For the irons, he was not provided the F9s to try until I specifically requested it (and even then had the wrong shaft) and for drivers, he was not provided the Epic Flash or the F9 until I requested those as well.

I think some of those guys get used to what sells and base their suggestions and opinions off that.

 

[BigDill]

I think some of those guys get used to what sells and base their suggestions and opinions off that.

For sure, or what they are asked to push....

 

[CBaker]

The problem with Hogan is accessibility. Hell, I'm about as connected as a consumer can be to the golf industry, and still haven't hit the PTX despite genuinely wanting to.

And maybe that's also a problem for Cobra to an extent. I've asked my pro numerous times to get some product in hand, and he said dealing with Cobra is awful.

Yea that's fair, but it's still out there. It's hard to redefine something when you're not even leading the field though IMO. Whether it's DTC or not, they are cheaper, and in some cases, just as accessible.

 

[JB]

Yea that's fair, but it's still out there. It's hard to redefine something when you're not even leading the field though IMO. Whether it's DTC or not, they are cheaper, and in some cases, just as accessible.

Honest question. In what cases are they just as accessible? Cobra is in just about every golf store and Hogan is in none. Cobra is available from just about every online retailer and Hogan is only available from their own website.

I agree they are not hard to find in terms of typing, but I don't see the accessibility on the same playing field.

 

[mancest]

Redefining? No, I don't see that. I think it is admirable what they and Cleveland are doing with what seem to be on a similar level tech wise at significantly lower prices than the "big boy" OEMs are at.

But, and I would love to see the data on this, Callaway/Taylormade/Ping/Titleist are not going to be adjusting the pricing for their flagship models because of what Cobra is doing. So I would imagine that the majority of iron sales are still going to be above the price point that Cobra irons are being sold at.

I know people rail about the increasing cost of everything, but I am genuinely curious how pricing Cobra irons at $100 more per set would a) impact their sales projections and b) impact their profit projections.

Just seeing the price levels are for the majority of iron sales, selling less units at higher profit per unit seems to be the trend, but everyone has a different business plan.

 

[CBaker]

Honest question. In what cases are they just as accessible? Cobra is in just about every golf store and Hogan is in none. Cobra is available from just about every online retailer and Hogan is only available from their own website.

I agree they are not hard to find in terms of typing, but I don't see the accessibility on the same playing field.

If you are trying to find them you are correct. But there are plenty of clubs and other avenues that don't carry them, as seen in this thread alone. I fully agree that if you're looking for Cobra you will find it easily, but some people don't look outside where they buy all of their gear (their club). In that case, in terms of pricing, maybe it's all a moot point to those buyers anyway.

 

[gkeller813]

For sure, or what they are asked to push....

I ran into this when buying a zero turn. First place I went pushed their brand. 2nd place said these are the options at, a little below, and a little above your price point. They all do the same thing, cut grass, but brand x does this, brand y does that. The dealer never pushed anything, and now he has a customer for as long as I need a zero turn. Same goes for anything I'm shopping for. Dont push me in a direction. Help guide me based on what criteria I give you, and what best suits me, not your bonus structure or kick backs.

 

[Tenputt]

It seems that Cobra is consistently priced just in back of the biggest names, such as Callaway, TaylorMade and Titleist (not necessarily the biggest selling names in equipment, just the most recognized names in equipment. It clearly must be a marketing strategy that Cobra thinks is successful, produce equipment that is quality and generates a certain level of buzz and price it slightly below the biggest names. I don’t see it as a new strategy, but more a continuation of what has been.

 

[Paladin]

If I'm working at a golf store, and I want to sweeten the pot for someone, I'm giving them what they went, then putting something else that might be cheaper in their hands that could perform equally as well (or better).

And I've watched some of the online reviews, which seem to focus FAR too much on brand versus quality. Bias well in play. The reality is, like we've seen in the past, cream always rises to the top. Brand can only go so far.

I agree, but I'm also of the opinion that there's much less brand agnosticism among the golf community at large than there is in the portion of the golf community that also talks golf on the Internet. The guy who walks into a big-box store to buy TaylorMade clubs can easily convince himself of the innumerable intangibles to justify the price difference. Feel, looks, confidence, etc.

 

[6ixOhFore]

Hope it’s a sign to come. Smart marketing technique, genius . Cobra already is well known in the industry so to choose a fair priced set or club from a name brand no brainer