"Jacked" Lofts in 2020

[Johan185]

I don't know @JB. There is a bit more pizzazz and sense of subterfuge and conspiracy when stated with "fraud" and "under-regulation in the private sector". Kind of puts the theme song to Jason Bourne in my head thinking about all these OEM vendor CEO's getting together to corner the world market on lofts in a grand plan to dominate the sales market.


Oddly enough, I've always though the numbers were exactly as you described. I don;t think I read it anywhere, it just made sense to me as a kid that this one goes this high, this one goes less high but farther, etc. They are meant to go a certain distance and hit a window in relation to each other. Regardless if of how far a 6 iron goes, I always know that a 6 iron will go between my 5 iron and my 7 iron. Therefore the 6 label is relativistic to distance not absolute to distance. And by proxy, then is non-deterministic to the characteristics that drive that relative distance measurement including speed, launch, and loft ( as well as others).

But then again, maybe I am letting my professional opinion and job interfere to much with my golf discussion. Back to slap stick comedy and gliphy's for me!

Clubs made for the intention of playing golf have certain limitations.

The are limited to 14 clubs. Since most Golfers use a Driver and a Putter that limits the other clubs to 12.

They have to cover a Distance from 350 yards to 70 yards for a professional on a full swing. 250 to 60 yards for most Amateurs.

With Fairway Woods and Hybrids the lowest useable loft is 12 to 14 degrees.

The lowest useable loft for Irons of any construction or technology is 17 degrees.

The highest useable loft is 64 degrees.

From 250 to 60 yards or 190 yards divided equally is 14.6 yards.


What ever your standard, and how ever you decide to gap, what you call the clubs doesn't matter.

But the different OEM'S specs with different marketing statements about technology and Improvement has resulted in customers confusion.

A 6 iron is not a 6 iron, between brands or between OEM'S. Not because I arbitrarily refused to understand the technology. But because they are simply not built or designed to similar specs. Nor are they designed to function in a similar way.

So we drop 1, 2, 3, and 4 irons. And we Add GW, AW, LW, and XW. But ultimately we are stuck between 17 degrees and 64 degrees. Number or Name as OEM'S choose.

But educated consumers are not misguided or misunderstanding the New technology. Or improved performance.

We need 10 to 15 yard gaps from 250 to 60 yards, and the OEM'S marketing hype is not helping out.

This is the Loft Madding Problem that the OEM'S have created.

Which clubs are longer?

Which technology is better?

Which Ball is the best?

How can anyone tell when there are no industry standards, in Clubs, Shafts, etc.

Everything since 1980 goes 5 yards further, but I have yet to hit my 6 Iron 300 yards. 5 yards further times 40 years Equals 200 yards. Plus my old 170 yard 6 irons Distance Equals 370. 370 yards with a 6 iron. But my driver only goes 250?

This is the geek's complaint about 21 degree 5 irons and misinformation on the OEM'S marketing strategy.

Peace

 

[Golf Ghost]

Was there ever a standard that all club manufacturers had to follow regarding loft and numbering?

 

[JB]

Was there ever a standard that all club manufacturers had to follow regarding loft and numbering?

No.
And the best part of all of this is EVERY company talks about going to get fit and thus eliminating every one of these problems. Someone mentioned a “loft maddening problem”. That does not exist in the masses.

I will use an interesting analogy. I just spent time at a very affluent club doing a driver survey. Out of dozens of golfers, only one person was stuck on his driver loft. Said he played 10.5 for 40 years and didn’t want to change. Yet think of the amount of design and spin changes that have taken place in those 40 years. He is literally robbing himself of most likely a ton of carry distance.

 

[CBaker]

No.
And the best part of all of this is EVERY company talks about going to get fit and thus eliminating every one of these problems. Someone mentioned a “loft maddening problem”. That does not exist in the masses.

I will use an interesting analogy. I just spent time at a very affluent club doing a driver survey. Out of dozens of golfers, only one person was stuck on his driver loft. Said he played 10.5 for 40 years and didn’t want to change. Yet think of the amount of design and spin changes that have taken place in those 40 years. He is literally robbing himself of most likely a ton of carry distance.

Yea but I bet he doesn't have any kids on his lawn anymore.

 

[Golf Ghost]

No.
And the best part of all of this is EVERY company talks about going to get fit and thus eliminating every one of these problems. Someone mentioned a “loft maddening problem”. That does not exist in the masses.

I will use an interesting analogy. I just spent time at a very affluent club doing a driver survey. Out of dozens of golfers, only one person was stuck on his driver loft. Said he played 10.5 for 40 years and didn’t want to change. Yet think of the amount of design and spin changes that have taken place in those 40 years. He is literally robbing himself of most likely a ton of carry distance.

I had a feeling that would be the case.

So, basically all lofts have been vanity lofts since the beginning of time. Meaning today is no different and we can all just enjoy our beverages.

 

[MH]

I never deluded myself into believing that I was holding the majority opinion, MH.

Nor was I insinuating that you had

 

[JB]

I had a feeling that would be the case.

So, basically all lofts have been vanity lofts since the beginning of time. Meaning today is no different and we can all just enjoy our beverages.

Well here are the lofts on Tommy Armour 845s, from their original spec sheet ad given to me by their creator, John Hoeflich. Based on a number of posts, these were loft jacked. Which is pretty funny if you think about it.

 

[KEV]

I think I'm to the point that I don't really care. Some people are going to bring out pitchforks, some people are going to defend it to the end and others like me just want the equipment to work and that's all that matters. It's a great conversation and fun to watch but as long as the equipment works I'm a happy camper.

 

[Golf Ghost]

Well here are the lofts on Tommy Armour 845s, from their original spec sheet ad given to me by their creator, John Hoeflich. Based on a number of posts, these were loft jacked. Which is pretty funny if you think about it.

View attachment 8923279

Everyone's jacking.

Someone should tell Bryson that you're suppose to jack your lofts, not your arms.

 

[CBaker]

Everyone's jacking.

Someone should tell Bryson that you're suppose to jack your lofts, not your arms.

Dude don't mention him, didn't you hear he has abs now? he's going to rough you up

 

[Golf Ghost]

Dude don't mention him, didn't you hear he has abs now? he's going to rough you up

True, that's what jacked guys do right? Rough people up. I wonder if he carries a shaker bottle everywhere now?

 

[CBaker]

True, that's what jacked guys do right? Rough people up. I wonder if he carries a shaker bottle everywhere now?

Just a shake weight and a 30* 7 iron.

 

[JB]

I think I'm to the point that I don't really care. Some people are going to bring out pitchforks, some people are going to defend it to the end and others like me just want the equipment to work and that's all that matters. It's a great conversation and fun to watch but as long as the equipment works I'm a happy camper.

And truthfully that is the majorty of thoughts. I know I said it before, there are areas where lofts are lowered for no reason other than fitting or giving an option. See new Titleist irons or Ping Power Spec. Others have been guilty in spots too (due to market segmentation). Just as many have been done for a different reason.

I think the best part of all of this, is that thankfully high level fitting is available to just about anybody that wants it now and can take all of this stuff and make it obsolete.

 

[blugold]

Everyone's jacking.

Someone should tell Bryson that you're suppose to jack your lofts, not your arms.

And what's good for the biceps is good for the soul.

 

[Tevenor]

Well here are the lofts on Tommy Armour 845s, from their original spec sheet ad given to me by their creator, John Hoeflich. Based on a number of posts, these were loft jacked. Which is pretty funny if you think about it.

View attachment 8923279

Oddly enough, the Silver Scot 845's were the first set of clubs I bought new for myself ( well picked out as my father really bought them ). One of the reasons was.....you guessed it. How the ball flighted due to the lofts.

 

[Golf Ghost]

View attachment 8923281

And what's good for the biceps is good for the soul.

though maybe not good for the score based on his first round yesterday

 

[KingSinghUNLTD]

You mean other than remembering the distances of my AW, GW, UW and making sure I have ALL my gap wedges in the bag....LMAO

 

[93civiccpe]

Clubs made for the intention of playing golf have certain limitations.

The are limited to 14 clubs. Since most Golfers use a Driver and a Putter that limits the other clubs to 12.

They have to cover a Distance from 350 yards to 70 yards for a professional on a full swing. 250 to 60 yards for most Amateurs.

With Fairway Woods and Hybrids the lowest useable loft is 12 to 14 degrees.

The lowest useable loft for Irons of any construction or technology is 17 degrees.

The highest useable loft is 64 degrees.

From 250 to 60 yards or 190 yards divided equally is 14.6 yards.

View attachment 8923277
What ever your standard, and how ever you decide to gap, what you call the clubs doesn't matter.

But the different OEM'S specs with different marketing statements about technology and Improvement has resulted in customers confusion.

A 6 iron is not a 6 iron, between brands or between OEM'S. Not because I arbitrarily refused to understand the technology. But because they are simply not built or designed to similar specs. Nor are they designed to function in a similar way.

So we drop 1, 2, 3, and 4 irons. And we Add GW, AW, LW, and XW. But ultimately we are stuck between 17 degrees and 64 degrees. Number or Name as OEM'S choose.

But educated consumers are not misguided or misunderstanding the New technology. Or improved performance.

We need 10 to 15 yard gaps from 250 to 60 yards, and the OEM'S marketing hype is not helping out.

This is the Loft Madding Problem that the OEM'S have created.

Which clubs are longer?

Which technology is better?

Which Ball is the best?

How can anyone tell when there are no industry standards, in Clubs, Shafts, etc.

Everything since 1980 goes 5 yards further, but I have yet to hit my 6 Iron 300 yards. 5 yards further times 40 years Equals 200 yards. Plus my old 170 yard 6 irons Distance Equals 370. 370 yards with a 6 iron. But my driver only goes 250?

This is the geek's complaint about 21 degree 5 irons and misinformation on the OEM'S marketing strategy.

Peace

But all of golf club design is essentially arbitrary. The flex on the shafts don't mean the same thing. A stiff in one brand is different than another. Grip sizes aren't standard. The swing weights that different manufacturers build their irons to its different... Why does it matter? I would say play whatever makes you happy and don't sweat the small stuff.

 

[rallo]

Everyone's jacking.

Dude, this is a family thread.

Seriously though, this conversation always fascinates me. IMO if people worried less about how far others hit their 7i then this wouldn't be an issue. Things you probably won't hear in my foursome:
"I hit my 7i farther than you."
"What's your loft?" ?

 

[Tevenor]

Seriously though, this conversation always fascinates me. IMO if people worried less about how far others hit their 7i then this wouldn't be an issue. Things you probably won't hear in my foursome:
"I hit my 7i farther than you."
"What's your loft?" ?

Agree with you there. Folks in my regular playing group only care how close to the hole you hit it, not what club you use. We have one guy who doesn't hit the ball far at all. Hits 200-220 on drives. Will play a 170 yard par 3 with a 5-wood. But he also tends to kick the crap out of most of us because he can put and pitch like crazy. None of us ever ask him which wood he used on that par 3. Or what iron he is using from 140 out. We just yell at him when he puts it 3 ft from the pin.

 

[93civiccpe]

I started thinking about this tonight and am struggling to see why it matters. If you know how far the 7 iron in your bag goes who cares. The only reason I can think of is the guy saying "I got on with a 9 iron and you needed a 7" but I don't take the bait in those pissing contests. Length is only one aspect of club fitting. Launch angle, spin, peak height are all important to properly fit clubs so play what you like and performs best.

But an idea came to me while driving home. Say a company designs a set of clubs that has the traditional lofts that you are okay with. And say they take a tungsten weight and move it as high and towards the face as they can. So setting aside the fact that this would be difficult to hit and unforgiving, this design should launch lower and have less spin. So if it launches with the trajectory and spin of your 5 iron, and goes the same distance as your 5 iron, are you okay with it being labeled a 7 iron because the loft is "correct" according to earlier /traditional lofts?

 

[InTheRough]

In the end it's about what I get the lowest scores with.

This said I miss my BioCells.

 

[kevin81002]

Well here are the lofts on Tommy Armour 845s, from their original spec sheet ad given to me by their creator, John Hoeflich. Based on a number of posts, these were loft jacked. Which is pretty funny if you think about it.

View attachment 8923279

Uhm... pw says 48*, and 4* down from there. That's pretty much standard isn't it? Unless you were referring to the ladies clubs.

 

[Golf Ghost]

Uhm... pw says 48*, and 4* down from there. That's pretty much standard isn't it? Unless you were referring to the ladies clubs.

A lot of post in here talked about PW at 50.

Also, what's "standard"?

 

[kevin81002]

A lot of post in here talked about PW at 50.

Also, what's "standard"?

I don't go way back, but as far back as I remember, 48* was always pw loft.

Like what has been stated before, there is no standard. Just a preconceived standard based off past clubs. And like I said before, everyone can play whatever they want. For slower swingers or people with higher spin, stronger lofted clubs are awesome. But for me, they're not ideal. And as far as hitting a 29-30* 7i the same launch conditions as a 34-36* lofted 7i... I don't buy it, and the iron testing I've done doesn't support it. That's just me though.