Playing it Down

[rollin]

This has to be one of the most friendliest debates I've encountered since joining THP. The logic is there from all sides, but as rollin has stated.....the rules give us an option and it's pretty clear and simple, but nowhere does it say improve your lie without penalty. I didn't make the rules, but I certainly try to follow them, and please don't get me started on hitting out of a divot.

haha...imo the divot thing at least has some valid reasoning behind it. Some feel its truly unfair and I cant say I disagree. While i do play out of them myself I can at least see why some choose not to and move it without penalty. I can at least see an argument for that one. They hit a good shot where they are suppose to hit it and being forced to play out of a divot is certainly understandable as for being unfair. So I do get that argument even though I play out of them myself. But for a root on a shot in which we did not hit the fairway (and likely are far enough off the fairway and or our intended target line) , where is the unfairness in that? To me the one issue at least has a valid argumentative reason but the other imo not much if any at all.

 

[rollin]

It's fine. I also speed marginally from time to time and jaywalk.


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speeding (within reason) is not about safety but about making money. Jaywalking especially in a big city...trust me is actually very dangerous to the walker. More so than hitting off a tree root
I suppose you rather be ran over by a car than hit a ball off a tree root.

 

[MWard]

haha...imo the divot thing at least has some valid reasoning behind it. Some feel its truly unfair and I cant say I disagree. While i do play out of them myself I can at least see why some choose not to and move it without penalty. I can at least see an argument for that one. They hit a good shot where they are suppose to hit it and being forced to play out of a divot is certainly understandable as for being unfair. So I do get that argument even though I play out of them myself. But for a root on a shot in which we did not hit the fairway (and likely are far enough off the fairway and or our intended target line) , where is the unfairness in that? To me the one issue at least has a valid argumentative reason but the other imo not much if any at all.

Some of that is location dependent. Many woodland courses, there can be trees just of the fairway. You hit a sprinkler head in the middle of the fairway or even one of the concrete yardage markers, you can absolutely get an unfair bounce after a well struck shot.

I gotta say, in every THP event round I've ever played, there has never once been an argument from any of the players about relief from being on a tree root. Events with some pretty spectacular prizes or trips on the line at that. The fun ends when someone gets hurt or someone does something silly like take the final score over the health of a playing partner.

 

[DG_1234]

What’s funny is the rules of golf book is not black and white, despite what’s been posted here as an absolute. If it was we wouldn’t need an entire section of decisions, we wouldn’t have high speed cameras following golf balls at tournaments and up until recently we would not have had call ins.

The Rules of Golf book is absolutely black and white, both literally and figuratively.
The "grey areas" , might be how a Rules violation is discovered and, or, whether a player correctly understood and applied a Rule. For example, a couple of years ago when Lexi Thompson cheated at the ANA Inspiration (Major), she knowingly replaced her ball an inch or so away from its correct mark. Does the fact that her cheating was exposed by a fan watching on tv somehow mean she should no have been penalized for violating a Rule ? Or back in 2000 when Vijay cheated on hole 11 en route to "winning" the Masters? The point-of -entry Rule is absolute, written in black and white, but Vijay chose to drop his ball next to the green instead of in front of the pond guarding the green.

 

[DG_1234]

They hit a good shot where they are suppose to hit it and being forced to play out of a divot is certainly understandable as for being unfair.

Not "understandable" to me. Where do people get the idea that golf shots are supposed to be "treated fairly"? On links courses especially, tee balls landing in the center of the fairway , or carrying to areas fronting a green, take all sorts of odd bounces and end up leaving the player with a less than desirable lie. Challenging lies are a part of the game and should not be used as a justification for cheating.

 

[Tenputt]

It's fine. I also speed marginally from time to time and jaywalk.


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I love this!!! Unless playing in a tournament, it doesn’t matter and we are playing to enjoy ourselves. Who cares if every rule is followed. “Cheating” implies something nefarious, which is not what most are doing when they do not strictly adhere to every rule.

 

[OGputtnfool]

...or someone does something silly like take the final score over the health of a playing partner.

What are you saying here? I'm trying to understand, but I don't get it.

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[rollin]

Some of that is location dependent. Many woodland courses, there can be trees just of the fairway. You hit a sprinkler head in the middle of the fairway or even one of the concrete yardage markers, you can absolutely get an unfair bounce after a well struck shot.

I gotta say, in every THP event round I've ever played, there has never once been an argument from any of the players about relief from being on a tree root. Events with some pretty spectacular prizes or trips on the line at that. The fun ends when someone gets hurt or someone does something silly like take the final score over the health of a playing partner.

I understand all that. Not really the point though. Firstly, in general most root situations are not that of fairway shots but come from shots we didn't place in the fairway. For the ones that hit a sprinkler and then go astray and onto a root? let me answer that with a question. When we do hit a poorer shot that hits a tree off the side of the layout and it bounces out into the middle of the fairway....do we then go and place that shot back into the trees? Fwiw that works both ways ….you know?

My view on this is not about what having fun or not, nor about any arguing at any event, etc... that's not the point . Its really pretty simple. As Ive mentioned there are many folks who state that they do play their golf by the rules. Most of them want to do so just for their own sake for whatever their reasons. They may shoot an "x" score and want it to be done by the rules as best they know how and can. That is important to them for keeping their own scores and knowing what they shot.

There are times (like the divot thing being one of them) where they may feel there is an unfair scenario that is wrong. And fwiw there is a good argument as for why they feel there is justification to move the ball freely after they did hit a good shot where they were suppose to. And so they justify the rules breech yet still can feel their score is an honest rules score due to the unfairness of that situation they feel is outright wrong. But the root thing (most the times) is not usually after a good shot. Its usually after we hit one where we didn't want to hit it. There is a big difference there when it comes to justification. One just doesn't have that same valid argument. And if your one who wants to play by the rules (as many say they are) Im not seeing where we would then feel landing on a root after we didn't hit the shot the way we wanted is unfair and warrants a free move. That ideology imo goes against ones very own efforts to play the rules. It doesn't hold the same argument as the fairway divot holds or perhaps even some other scenarios that can be viewed as wrongfully unfair.

There is no unfairness here imo that holds any water. We simply hit an off fairway shot that was poor or not so good and as a result we end up near trees and unfortunately on a root. We don't take the ball out of a fw bunker, or a lake, weeds, or whatever else have us. We play it or asses the penalty. How can one who does want to make good effort to play by the rules (because that's important to them) decide to then freely move the ball from the root after they didn't hit the shot they were suppose to hit as though its unfair situation? Im not seeing nor hearing even one single person come up with a valid justification for free drop. I see one for the fw divot. That can be argued imo. But I don't see one here. Injury or damage is a valid reason not to play it, but its not at all any reason to justify forgiving oneself the penalty. And remember this is meant for one who wants to and does play their golf by the rules and yet forgives this scenario. Where does the justification lay. They don't have one for weeds or water or bunker, so where is the one for the root? The fw divot has one (if they chose to feel its ok). Where and what is this one?

 

[rollin]

Not "understandable" to me. Where do people get the idea that golf shots are supposed to be "treated fairly"? On links courses especially, tee balls landing in the center of the fairway , or carrying to areas fronting a green, take all sorts of odd bounces and end up leaving the player with a less than desirable lie. Challenging lies are a part of the game and should not be used as a justification for cheating.

All I was getting at was that I can at least see some valid argument in that being unfair if they choose to argue it. Correct or not (agree or not) I can at least see why some can justify that one in their own mind and pose the argument. The root thing (outside the fairway) doesn't even hold any valid argument at all.

 

[MWard]

What are you saying here? I'm trying to understand, but I don't get it.

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I’m saying that in a thp event, people aren’t so likely to tell you to play a shot from tree roots or take a penalty, because they want to win.

 

[OGputtnfool]

I’m saying that in a thp event, people aren’t so likely to tell you to play a shot from tree roots or take a penalty, because they want to win.

If there wasn't a "local rule" announced at the beginning of the competition specifically declaring roots as a free drop, then I'm not sure why the normal rules wouldn't be in play.

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[MWard]

If there wasn't a "local rule" announced at the beginning of the competition specifically declaring roots as a free drop, then I'm not sure why the normal rules wouldn't be in play.

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There are two rules at all THP events. Have fun, don’t be a Richard. If you want to play from a root or rocks, have at it.

 

[OGputtnfool]

There are two rules at all THP events. Have fun, don’t be a Richard. If you want to play from a root or rocks, have at it.

There were more rules than that at the Championship last year. I don't have the list, but I know there were more than that.

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[rollin]

If there wasn't a "local rule" announced at the beginning of the competition specifically declaring roots as a free drop, then I'm not sure why the normal rules wouldn't be in play.

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I'd agree and I wouldn't just assume I would get to free drop because Im on a root. I hit the ball towards the tree/s off the fairway so be it. If I cant play it , why do I get a free drop? I wouldn't have any more or less fun because I got to move one from a root without penalty. How does that make or break the fun one would have at a THP event? Or any event for that matter? No one can force another to hit the ball from the root so how does that make any event round more or less enjoyable? You move it (if need be) and take the penalty. Pretty simple really.

 

[The Milk Man]

I'd agree and I wouldn't just assume I would get to free drop because Im on a root. I hit the ball towards the tree/s off the fairway so be it. If I cant play it , why do I get a free drop? I wouldn't have any more or less fun because I got to move one from a root.

If at a THP event I am giving you a free drop. I would rather you enjoy the event than take a chance of you injuring yourself and ruining your time at the event.

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[MWard]

If at a THP event I am giving you a free drop. I would rather you enjoy the event than take a chance of you injuring yourself and ruining your time at the event.

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Freakin this.

 

[rollin]

If at a THP event I am giving you a free drop. I would rather you enjoy the event than take a chance of you injuring yourself and ruining your time at the event.

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Freakin this.

Explain how moving the ball and taking a penalty drop instead of a free drop is ruining the event for me? Am I also getting a free drop from a lake running along side a holes layout? Am I getting one from the bunker at the turn of a dogleg? How about weeds I cant hit out of along the aside of a hole? Thise things and more are not going to ruin the event for me, why would a tree root where I have to take a penalty drop? I don't get it

 

[OGputtnfool]

I still don't see how someone can injure themselves executing a simple punch out. I mean we're not trying to hit a Tiger level recovery shot. We're talking about a 1/4 swing with something just enough to get it back into play.

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[rollin]

I still don't see how someone can injure themselves executing a simple punch out. I mean we're not trying to hit a Tiger level recovery shot. We're talking about a 1/4 swing with something just enough to get it back into play.

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It don't even have to a 1/4 swing with any real velocity. But ok fine even if they don't want to do that, why such the resistance to a penalty drop? Where is it any different from hitting one off the beaten path into any other scenario that costs a stroke? And how in the world would that ruin an event?

 

[OGputtnfool]

It don't even have to a 1/4 swing with any real velocity. But ok fine even if they don't want to do that, why such the resistance to a penalty drop? Where is it any different from hitting one off the beaten path into any other scenario that costs a stroke? And how in the world would that ruin an event?

I'm with ya, man. 100%

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[The Milk Man]

Explain how moving the ball and taking a penalty drop instead of a free drop is ruining the event for me? Am I also getting a free drop from a lake running along side a holes layout? Am I getting one from the bunker at the turn of a dogleg? How about weeds I cant hit out of along the aside of a hole? Thise things and more are not going to ruin the event for me, why would a tree root where I have to take a penalty drop? I don't get it

I would offer a free drop, if you don't want to take that is up to you. But I would feel terrible if I didn't offer and you ended up in the emergency room due to hitting the root. I would think ending up in ER would ruing the event for you.

I still don't see how someone can injure themselves executing a simple punch out. I mean we're not trying to hit a Tiger level recovery shot. We're talking about a 1/4 swing with something just enough to get it back into play.

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THP events attract people of all skill levels. What is an easy punch out for you isn't for others. Punch shot or no punch shot if you miss the ball and hit all root that is going to hurt and yes injury is possible.


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[Greg Kulbick]

What are you saying here? I'm trying to understand, but I don't get it.

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I believe that.

 

[OGputtnfool]

I would offer a free drop, if you don't want to take that is up to you. But I would feel terrible if I didn't offer and you ended up in the emergency room due to hitting the root. I would think ending up in ER would ruing the event for you.THP events attract people of all skill levels. What is an easy punch out for you isn't for others. Punch shot or no punch shot if you miss the ball and hit all root that is going to hurt and yes injury is possible.


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You're talkin' 1000000:1 scenarios re: going to the ER due to falling to properly execute a punch shot.

As for the skill levels, I'd anyone is uncomfortable punching the ball away from a root, there is already an out for them if they choose to use it.

Would a free drop be extended if I hit my ball into a lake to keep me from going to the ER when I drown trying to play it?

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[rollin]

I would offer a free drop, if you don't want to take that is up to you. But I would feel terrible if I didn't offer and you ended up in the emergency room due to hitting the root. I would think ending up in ER would ruing the event for you.THP events attract people of all skill levels. What is an easy punch out for you isn't for others. Punch shot or no punch shot if you miss the ball and hit all root that is going to hurt and yes injury is possible.


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Why wouldn't I just take (if needed) a penalty drop? I get your point...I mean who wants anyone to get hurt ir damage a club? I would never ask of that to anyone. Though I do agree with "puttnfool" where as suggesting the chip may only have to be some small softly played little thing just to get the ball off the root. But even if one doesn't want to do that then why not just take a penalty drop? Im sorry but your not making a case. Its not any big deal and certainly not one that would ruin any enjoyment of any event if a penalty drop is to be taken. The whole thing is just not making any sense.

 

[DG_1234]

I don't know where you all are playing your golf but out of the past 100 rounds I've played I don't remember swing or stance interference from a tree root happening even one time. Maybe it's come up once in the past 5 years (approximately 300 rounds of golf).