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Roll Back Forgiveness on Tour

I am really on the fence with the rollback option for the pros. Hell no for the amateurs, but I like both seeing the PGA guys hit 350-yard drives and I like to see them challenged.

No matter what you do the long boys will be longer. Roll it back or don't the guys that hit 50 yards farther will still hit 50 yards father if you rollback or pick something else.
 
fuffle master said:
I am really on the fence with the rollback option for the pros. Hell no for the amateurs, but I like both seeing the PGA guys hit 350-yard drives and I like to see them challenged.

No matter what you do the long boys will be longer. Roll it back or don't the guys that hit 50 yards farther will still hit 50 yards father if you rollback or pick something else.
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If you like to see them challenged, put the pin position in tough spots. They can still crush the tee shots, but then they need to convert birdies with a pin position with little room for error on approach or a tricky putt.

Look at the 17th at Colonial on Sunday...lost the tournament on a 3 foot putt...nothing to do with a driver
 
Snowman said:
I mean, if that's all they want, then just trick all the courses up to extreme US Open conditions. Make them basically impossible to play. Then your leaders will be closer to par and your backmarkers will be around +40. Not sure exactly what that accomplishes, but hey...

Maybe it's just me, but I hate watching golf like the 2018 US Open at Shinnecock. If I wanted to see golfers being tortured, hacking the ball around and having putts roll right off of greens, I'd go pull up a chair at the local muni on a Saturday afternoon. I want to see their skills on display. I want to see them hit shots I couldn't hit in my wildest dreams. I want to be saying "These guys are GOOD!" - not seeing them made fools of by ridiculous course conditions.
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They need some air let out of them!! All smug and long hitting.
 
Idk about rolling back the distances people hit the ball. Never really thought about it.

I suppose if I were to form an opinion on the pros/cons of the longer ball it might go something like this.

The whole thing about playing golf for a score is to play as little golf as possible for the 18 holes. By that I mean playing fewer strokes than the other guy.

Longer ball flights/rolls lead to fewer strokes. Fewer strokes could also mean a faster pace of play, especially in the amateur ranks.

Personally I don't care what they do in the professional ranks. However, I do think the amateur ranks should be left alone. I don't want to give up 40+/- yards off my driver due to a 20% roll back.
 
I have a little bit of different take from what I've read here. Don't change the equipment or the courses, this just means he won't be able to play his driver on more holes and wil have to club down while others are using their driver. Problem solved.
 
read collin montgomerie's article this afternoon in regards to a "tour professional ball" thats at only 80-85% of what its supposed to be.
said thee old courses are being out hit and golf doesnt have the money to replace courses that should now be 10k yards.
says something has to be done now.
 
I do not believe a complete equipment and ball overhaul is the long term answer. I am in favor of seeing professionals use drivers with a head size that are no greater than 430CC and possible roll back MOI & COR %'s. (it is not like they do not make specialty irons and wedges for them already)
But, before any equipment changes are made, I would really like to see tighter fairways and deeper rough, enough to really penalize you for missing the fairway. If you drive the ball 350 yds and hit 80% of the fairways, you deserve to win.
 


 
HipCheck said:
Personally I don’t think restricting driver head sizes will do a damn thing to change the pro game. They hit dead center most of the time regardless of head size.

Do you see how far and accurate they are with fairway woods?
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That was my first reaction. I don't think a 420cc head will do ****. Bryson's not hitting them 360 off the toe.
 
Knot Right said:
I do miss the sound of a persimmon Powerbilt Citation club head meeting up with the Titleist Pro Trajectory balata ball.
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Yeah, obviously I was being facetious but I love that sound as well. It would be really cool to have a hickory stick tournament on the PGA Tour once a year. Like around the holidays or something. Wouldn't have to be for FedEx points or anything.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
My average driving distance at 23 years old with a Persimmon driver was around 250. I know this because the Sub Base where I learn to play had a short par 4 that could be driven with a good tee shot. I used to pace off my drive to the green edge every time I played the hole. I could swing harder and get more distance, but you never knew for sure how much the ball would side spin if you were a little off. The balls back then would go absolutely side ways on a overcooked slice or hook.

It was a much different game back then in some ways.

Today, at 62 years old, I'm still easily driving the same distances without reaching for the fences, and I have to exaggerate my swing path to get those wild hooks and slices with a Pro V1.

The balls, driver faces, and shafts today are just incredible.

Please feel free to chime in if you think I am wrong about this.
 
Canadan said:
Accuracy is boring.... yet bombing the ball is breaking golf.
The golf community is a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle bit nuts lmao

Also, I am hard pressed to agree that 30cc doesn't make a difference.
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According to this experiment it made a bit of difference, albeit the clubhead was a different material also: DJ Bombs Persimmon Driver
 
I don't care about drivers going 350 or scores being super low relative to par. I just wish you still had a couple holes a round where bombing over trees to eliminate the dogleg wasn't an option. I also wish we had a couple holes a round required a long to mid iron on a par 4 was required. Since you need either A) more land or B) break out the mower, narrow fairways, and move bunkers to do this I think B is the better route that can happen.
 
No metal woods allowed...3 iron is the longest club you can carry in the bag
 
Jman said:
I don’t want them to be scared. But creating flier lies every time they miss would be excellent tv. And knocking some of the 1,277,355 yards of roll off with more plush fairways would be fun too.

I also don’t think smaller drivers would do anything, look how far they’re hitting 3w now, they’ll still bomb it over everything, that’s the nature of the athlete now. As much as it’s gear and athletic training, agronomy is amply to blame as well.
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I agree smaller driver heads would not much of a difference. Real rough and slower fairways would make a difference. Problem with rough is the galleries beat the rough down so it’s pretty easy for pros when it’s trampled down
 
Id go one farther and say limit driver head size to 190cc. 430 is still too easy for the pros but if their driver has a head the size of a hybrid or fairway wood; it would greatly put a premium on hitting the center of the face and accuracy.
 
Canadan said:
So, this occurred not very long ago, as mentioned already.

Do you think OEMs saw a massive uptick in sales when they transitioned from their tour heads in the 430 range to 440 and then 460?
How about the fact that Tour Issue heads (tour stamp) is still very much a thing? Do you think that hinders sales?
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apples and oranges. the average golfer does not have any idea what tour issue even is. like they don’t know what a scotty is vs circle t. but unless oems make models look identical, i think the fact the tour pros would play an entirely different head could be a problem.
 
McLovin said:
apples and oranges. the average golfer does not have any idea what tour issue even is. like they don’t know what a scotty is vs circle t. but unless oems make models look identical, i think the fact the tour pros would play an entirely different head could be a problem.
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that's why I asked... was it a problem only a couple years ago when that was the absolute norm?

Also, Callaway had a BUNCH of iterations on Epic Flash last year. Was that a problem? If the presentation is subtle (like little diamonds or a notation of CC size), what difference does it make? Surely it wasn't a problem when they were selling 460 and 430 M1's.
 
Canadan said:
that's why I asked... was it a problem only a couple years ago when that was the absolute norm?

Also, Callaway had a BUNCH of iterations on Epic Flash last year. Was that a problem? If the presentation is subtle (like little diamonds or a notation of CC size), what difference does it make? Surely it wasn't a problem when they were selling 460 and 430 M1's.
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those drivers look very similar on the rack or on tv. but the more the designs differ, the worse i think it would be. i’ve still yet to be convinced in any way that putting the onus on the oems is the right solution
 
Junkyard said:
According to this experiment it made a bit of difference, albeit the clubhead was a different material also: DJ Bombs Persimmon Driver
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Yeah, I've seen some great videos on pros hitting the older products. What would be awesome, would be to see what they could do with a head like that and a new-age shaft.

DJ hammered that thing.
 
McLovin said:
those drivers look very similar on the rack or on tv. but the more the designs differ, the worse i think it would be. i’ve still yet to be convinced in any way that putting the onus on the oems is the right solution
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Well, that was my solution. It wasn't to create an entirely different driver presentation, it was to revert back to the 430cc days and limit the pros to them. Hell, I'd have no problem with them going even smaller. Drivers are massive now.

To the second point, this was more about 'if we have to pick a product to alter, why not start here' since the talk about altering the course is scoffed at by so many.
 
Canadan said:
that's why I asked... was it a problem only a couple years ago when that was the absolute norm?

Also, Callaway had a BUNCH of iterations on Epic Flash last year. Was that a problem? If the presentation is subtle (like little diamonds or a notation of CC size), what difference does it make? Surely it wasn't a problem when they were selling 460 and 430 M1's.
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True Story.
Years ago a certain company that rhymes with Taylormade would have players test their gear. If said player didn’t make the jump, or get better numbers, they would come back the next week with 5 more heads. Their were dozens of iterations out there.

Adjustability has changed a lot of that. Sponsorships have too.
 
Canadan said:
Well, that was my solution. It wasn't to create an entirely different driver presentation, it was to revert back to the 430cc days and limit the pros to them. Hell, I'd have no problem with them going even smaller. Drivers are massive now.

To the second point, this was more about 'if we have to pick a product to alter, why not start here' since the talk about altering the course is scoffed at by so many.
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i love the convo. keep it coming!
 
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