Should Courses Enact a HC Check on Tees

[rollin]

Choosing the correct tee box is probably not even in the top ten of factors contributing to slow play.
I rank the top 4 causes of slow play as follows :

1) players standing around watching others rather than moving to their ball
2) players sitting in a cart watching others rather than moving to their ball
3) players choosing too little club and leaving themselves 10 to 20 yards short of nearly every green
4) players hitting driver crooked (instead of a club they can consistently hit straight) off the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes, then hunting for balls in the trees or rough.

I can do number 4 very often (especially this past year) and do it while keeping pace and also even when pace is faster than normal. Its really very simple to do. I just move with a sense of purpose. This is still similar to asking someone to move up. Your still telling them to leave thier driver home.

 

[dduarte85]

I can do number 4 very often (especially this past year) and do it while keeping pace and also even when pace is faster than normal. Its really very simple to do. I just move with a sense of purpose. This is still similar to asking someone to move up. Your still telling them to leave thier driver home.

regarding 4, then is golf just social? Because then your banging provo balls out there or spending time looking and dropping despite there being no marked hazard, I assume.

 

[dduarte85]

Choosing the correct tee box is probably not even in the top ten of factors contributing to slow play.
I rank the top 4 causes of slow play as follows :

1) players standing around watching others rather than moving to their ball
2) players sitting in a cart watching others rather than moving to their ball
3) players choosing too little club and leaving themselves 10 to 20 yards short of nearly every green
4) players hitting driver crooked (instead of a club they can consistently hit straight) off the par 4 and par 5 tee boxes, then hunting for balls in the trees or rough.

blame the damn carts! I get the older dudes or courses that have huge distances between tee/green but I can't tell you how many guys my age (and I am not in the best of shape!) I see riding! I honestly think pace of pace of play would quicken up if we just walked, then we aren't waiting for peoples carts and if they didn't grab the right club, or cart path only rules after rain, or even losing your line of sight or where a shot may have entered a wooded area because of the way carts mess with your perception of space.

Totally off topic lol!

 

[rollin]

regarding 4, then is golf just social? Because then your banging provo balls out there or spending time looking and dropping despite there being no marked hazard, I assume.

No not just social at all. I golf with goal of improvement. Practice alot and taken plenty lessons. Im not losing balls off every tee at all. But I have been spraying requireing many recovery shots. And sometimes yes lost ball. I dont look long for mine at all. I dont have the patience nor do i want to hold anyone up. In fact i will usually help others look longer than i look for my own. When not found after like maybe a minute (unless we are waiting anyway then I may search a bit longer since there is no where to go) but I just drop and give myself 2 strokes penalty unless i did hit a provo. Excpet in situation where the ball should been easily found and the group is all confident the ball is in a place where nothing much should be hiding it. perhaps just a leaf or some high rough or lawn mower clippings. Then its one stroke penalty.

Point is it doesnt have to take too much time where as its a pace problem. And besides that can happen from any tee. people spray balls from all tees all the time. heck even iron approaches from fairways are very often sprayed by many people. poor golf, wrong tees, etc doesnt (in most cases) have to at all mean slow rounds. The reasons are mostly many other things.

Searching too long is one of them and that for some reason its more often better players who just cant part with thier ball and the longest serches usualy come from them in my experience.

 

[Trmpt98]

Most of the slow play is on the greens or not playing ready golf. I played this weekend at a tough course with a 142 slope rating. The foursome ahead of us was fast off the tee and in the fairways but painfully slow when they got to the greens. I watched 3 of them remark and re-align their ball with the hole a couple times each on the first hole. Luckily they let us through on the second hole and we finished in 2:35 as a twosome. Also, my buddy who was playing is a 17 index and he played fast from the blue tees. I’m sure they were at least 90 minutes behind us.

This is exactly what I see. It's getting around the green that becomes painfully slow. I'm not sure moving up distances will help alot. If I moved up a tee box it would take the driver out of my hands at many of my local courses which wouldn't be as much fun to me. Our slowest groups in the area are because they line up putts and take a very long time "reading" the greens.

 

[dduarte85]

I was hoping we had some members from the UK who could chime in since this seems more common on their end than here in the states.

 

[Headcoach]

Ill go you one better than that...I think we need to not only enact a policy like that, but make people take and pass an etiquette test prior to teeing off. Take it one time at that course and its on file forever. That way people will be aware of simple courtesy's like fixing ball marks, not dragging your feet, faster players play through, not driving to every shot after playing partners have hit, etc. I think we need to have check points as well, 45 minutes to have played 5 holes is plenty, you aint there yet? skip a hole and catch up dammit! slow play is a killer....READY GOLF SHOULD BE MANDATORY!

 

[Sean]

I only imply that distance should be far more the determining factor for tee choice than hc should.

I agree with this. I am a senior, don't hit the ball very far, and am a mid-high single digit HI. Not to long ago there was a tournament I wanted to play in. I contacted the guy running it and asked about the tees, as I don't hit it far and didn't want to sign up if I would be playing too far back. He said no worries. I get to the tournament and I was assigned the tips...about 6900 yards. The guy I spoke with on the phone was there and I referenced our conversation. He said my HI indicates I should play the tips (I had given him my HI while on the phone).

It was no fun for me. Most of the par 4's were 450+, and it took me 3 shots to get to the green. All the par 3's were over 200 yards, and on two of them I had to hit a driver. One hole had a 250 yard carry to the fairway, I had to hit a wedge to the forward tees, and then hit my next shot as I couldn't clear the hazard from the tips. The gentlemen I was paired with were very kind and encouraging, but clearly I was playing the wrong tees, and it was frustrating. According to a formula I read in Golf Digest, my ideal distance is 5500 yards. I broke 90...barely...and that was only because my short game was on.

So, I agree that distance and HI cannot be correlated. I know some folks who hit it a long way and are mid-high teen HI's.

The bummer for me is I want to play tournament golf but can't because I don't hit the ball far enough. My last six rounds were in the 70's, but that was playing tees appropriate to how far I hit the ball. I don't know about other folks, but the game isn't fun for me hitting driver, wood, and wedge. In the tournament I referenced above, I hit one iron shot all day. Just one. lol

 

[DG_1234]

I agree with this. I am a senior, don't hit the ball very far, and am a mid-high single digit HI. Not to long ago there was a tournament I wanted to play in. I contacted the guy running it and asked about the tees, as I don't hit it far and didn't want to sign up if I would be playing too far back. He said no worries. I get to the tournament and I was assigned the tips...about 6900 yards. The guy I spoke with on the phone was there and I referenced our conversation. He said my HI indicates I should play the tips (I had given him my HI while on the phone).

It was no fun for me. Most of the par 4's were 450+, and it took me 3 shots to get to the green. All the par 3's were over 200 yards, and on two of them I had to hit a driver. One hole had a 250 yard carry to the fairway, I had to hit a wedge to the forward tees, and then hit my next shot as I couldn't clear the hazard from the tips. The gentlemen I was paired with were very kind and encouraging, but clearly I was playing the wrong tees, and it was frustrating. According to a formula I read in Golf Digest, my ideal distance is 5500 yards. I broke 90...barely...and that was only because my short game was on.

So, I agree that distance and HI cannot be correlated. I know some folks who hit it a long way and are mid-high teen HI's.

The bummer for me is I want to play tournament golf but can't because I don't hit the ball far enough. My last six rounds were in the 70's, but that was playing tees appropriate to how far I hit the ball. I don't know about other folks, but the game isn't fun for me hitting driver, wood, and wedge. In the tournament I referenced above, I hit one iron shot all day. Just one. lol

Here in Nor Cal the tournaments for Seniors (55 to 65 years old) play tee boxes at about 6,200 yards and the Super Senior (age 65 and older) flight plays about 5,800 yards.

 

[OGputtnfool]

Or keep pulling driver and shoot under par. Break par then move back has a lot of merit imo.

This assumes that the subject would score better hitting driver on every hole rather than playing strategically.

 

[zbeekner4]

Regardless, I couldn't care less what tees people play...just keep moving.

That’s what I’m sayin. Even for a casual round for a foursome, 12-14 minutes per hole is PLENTY of time, you shouldn’t be slower than that. If you are, then yes you need to pick it up.

Referring to the OP, and I’ve seen this done before, what about creating an oversized driver chart on the first tee that correlates to the tees you should play. I will say though that ANYONE playing the back tees must get permission from the Marshall or golf shop. There is an extremely small percentage of players who should ever be playing from the back.



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[Sean]

That’s what I’m sayin. Even for a casual round for a foursome, 12-14 minutes per hole is PLENTY of time, you shouldn’t be slower than that. If you are, then yes you need to pick it up.

Referring to the OP, and I’ve seen this done before, what about creating an oversized driver chart on the first tee that correlates to the tees you should play. I will say though that ANYONE playing the back tees must get permission from the Marshall or golf shop. There is an extremely small percentage of players who should ever be playing from the back.



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I think a number of courses in the UK have handicap limits and several require a handicap card/certificate. For example, the Old Course requires an official USGA handicap card to be presented to the starter.

 

[dduarte85]

I think a number of courses in the UK have handicap limits and several require a handicap card/certificate. For example, the Old Course requires an official USGA handicap card to be presented to the starter.

Yes, I had to show my GHIN at Ballybunion and Lahinch. It didn't bother me and led to a more enjoyable experience because I wasn't killing myself at 7100 yards of links.

 

[rollin]

That’s what I’m sayin. Even for a casual round for a foursome, 12-14 minutes per hole is PLENTY of time, you shouldn’t be slower than that. If you are, then yes you need to pick it up.

Referring to the OP, and I’ve seen this done before, what about creating an oversized driver chart on the first tee that correlates to the tees you should play. I will say though that ANYONE playing the back tees must get permission from the Marshall or golf shop. There is an extremely small percentage of players who should ever be playing from the back.



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that depends how long the course is.

 

[TheDoctor]

I was hoping we had some members from the UK who could chime in since this seems more common on their end than here in the states.

Since my initial post I have stayed out of this thread as it just seemed to head down a debate around handicap and distance being related / not related

Here in the UK, the majority of courses only have a couple of tee boxes, unlike the 5 or 6 that most US courses appear to have based on what I read here

When visiting a course, more often than not they will have a 'tee of the day' for both men and women, so you don't tend to have a choice of tees to play
However, if you ask if you can play a different set of tees the course will sometimes allow it without any question, but some courses will then ask what your handicap is and then either allow it, or suggest against it based on the difficulty of their course - you are there as a guest and they want you to enjoy the course as much as possible

Some courses will advise on their website if they have handicap restrictions - see this LINK for an example

While our courses are open to all visitors, the signature Hotchkin Course is best suited to experienced golfers; therefore, we have applied maximum handicaps of 24 for men and 36 for ladies.

Other courses will not even let you play if you can't provide a handicap certificate, although this tends to be the more exclusive courses and I suspect they will also have a maximum handicap allowed

I have zero issue with courses applying handicap restrictions as I want to enjoy playing a course when I visit, but if the course is beyond my level of ability then the last thing I want to do is feel like the round is a chore

I have never been asked to show my handicap certificate anywhere, but at a number of higher end courses I have been asked my handicap by the starter who has then recommended the tees from which I would get the most enjoyment of the course

 

[thommo.sx]

Yup - I have a similar experience to the Doc over here (unsurprisingly).

I've never played a course with more than 4 tees (generally Red/Gold/White/Blue or Black), with Blue or Black only being used in competitions, and often as you go to the first tee, there will be a sign saying "Today's Tee = Gold", and that's what you play - the only alternative being the Reds which is always the shortest tee. The Tee of the Day markers are then often moved forward / back within the tee boxes to vary things up.

Never had to show a handicap certificate (which is handy as I don't have one), and only ever been asked once, and that was on a Golf Day at a course that had previously hosted a European Tour event, where you had have a lower handicap than "x" to play off the Championship tees (if you wanted to), and even that was purely for grouping purposes.

 

[TheDoctor]

Yup - I have a similar experience to the Doc over here (unsurprisingly).

I've never played a course with more than 4 tees (generally Red/Gold/White/Blue or Black), with Blue or Black only being used in competitions, and often as you go to the first tee, there will be a sign saying "Today's Tee = Gold", and that's what you play - the only alternative being the Reds which is always the shortest tee. The Tee of the Day markers are then often moved forward / back within the tee boxes to vary things up.

Never had to show a handicap certificate (which is handy as I don't have one), and only ever been asked once, and that was on a Golf Day at a course that had previously hosted a European Tour event, where you had have a lower handicap than "x" to play off the Championship tees (if you wanted to), and even that was purely for grouping purposes.

You should check out Rockliffe Hall along the road from me - 5 sets of tees which, from the back, gives 3 par 5s at over 600yds including one at 664yds!

 

[Sean]

Yes, I had to show my GHIN at Ballybunion and Lahinch. It didn't bother me and led to a more enjoyable experience because I wasn't killing myself at 7100 yards of links.

Must have been a great trip...two iconic golf courses.

 

[thommo.sx]

You should check out Rockliffe Hall along the road from me - 5 sets of tees which, from the back, gives 3 par 5s at over 600yds including one at 664yds!

Blimus!

All into the wind, no doubt. Strong like bull.

 

[dduarte85]

Must have been a great trip...two iconic golf courses.

Yeah it was pretty epic... I wish I could go back but I keep finding excuses not to go.

 

[choppstixxx]

While appropriate tee play is def. an issue, I agree with the consensus that slow play is due to people taking took much time from tee to green overall.
Very casual golfers tend to not know that all tee colors are not created equally i.e. Blues at one course are not the same at Blues at another. Not to mention they don't really know the general calculation of what tees you should play based on your club distances. I am a shorter hitter and know that I will struggle playing tees past 6300-6400 yds.
This exact same thing happened to me the other day where a group in front waited on a longer Par 5 for the group in front of them to finish the entire hole before they shot there 2nd. They had at least 270+ yds and going by there drives not one of them would be able to hit the green in two. Sure enough all of them were short by 100 or so yards, just made the last hole 15-20 mins longer than it needed to be.

 

[rollin]

While appropriate tee play is def. an issue, I agree with the consensus that slow play is due to people taking took much time from tee to green overall.
Very casual golfers tend to not know that all tee colors are not created equally i.e. Blues at one course are not the same at Blues at another. Not to mention they don't really know the general calculation of what tees you should play based on your club distances. I am a shorter hitter and know that I will struggle playing tees past 6300-6400 yds.
This exact same thing happened to me the other day where a group in front waited on a longer Par 5 for the group in front of them to finish the entire hole before they shot there 2nd. They had at least 270+ yds and going by there drives not one of them would be able to hit the green in two. Sure enough all of them were short by 100 or so yards, just made the last hole 15-20 mins longer than it needed to be.

did it really makw the hole 15 to 20 mins longer by just waiting for the green to clear? That hole took at least a half hr? I mean even slow players would finish an entire hole in 20 minutes. They had hit thier fist already and then had to go to thier balls for thier second shots. And so you mean to say they waited so very long for the group ahead to clear the green so they can take thier second shots that the hole took an extra 20 minutes? Meaning that group on the green took that long to just play the green? I fact it would mean they took even longer than that because they were robably on the green at some small point before the group ahead of you got to thier second shots. So it would be 20 and possible more that the group way ahead spent on that green. if thats the case that group directly ahead of you would and probably all groups would be waiting behind that group on the green anyway on most holes anyway.

I do hink (as mentioned as a topic in another thread) that we sometimes exaggerate our impatient situations. I dont doubt your group waited and perhaps even waited unecesarily too long. But 20 minutes extra on top of the noraml time to play the hole? thats a half hr. Even a slower group wouldnt do that in most cases. That would mean it took that group at least a half half hr to play that entire par5. if that further group ws that bad the group ahead of you would be waiting on them all day anyway and wouldnt be thier fault even if they did uneccessarily await for clearnce form too far off. If the group ahead of you was just that time consuming the group ahead of them would have been probably 2 holes ahead of them. Your looking at an 8 hr round there even 7 to be lenient. Not trying to pick on you but often we have a habit of exaerating what really has taken place. So (rspectfully) I question if what you felt was actually reality time wise.

 

[choppstixxx]

did it really makw the hole 15 to 20 mins longer by just waiting for the green to clear? That hole took at least a half hr? I mean even slow players would finish an entire hole in 20 minutes. They had hit thier fist already and then had to go to thier balls for thier second shots. And so you mean to say they waited so very long for the group ahead to clear the green so they can take thier second shots that the hole took an extra 20 minutes? Meaning that group on the green took that long to just play the green? I fact it would mean they took even longer than that because they were robably on the green at some small point before the group ahead of you got to thier second shots. So it would be 20 and possible more that the group way ahead spent on that green. if thats the case that group directly ahead of you would and probably all groups would be waiting behind that group on the green anyway on most holes anyway.

100% it did, not only did they wait excessively long for their second shots (even their 3rd tbh) but also to just tee off they waited longer than needed to do so.

 

[rollin]

100% it did, not only did they wait excessively long for their second shots (even their 3rd tbh) but also to just tee off they waited longer than needed to do so.

and so it would seem they were unreasonably extra slow to the pint of walking off the course. Which it also seems that would be the case (for them) regardless which tees they would play.

 

[choppstixxx]

and so it would seem they were unreasonably extra slow to the pint of walking off the course. Which it also seems that would be the case (for them) regardless which tees they would play.

Which was exactly my original point where playing certain tees is not a direct correlation with slow play.
I think that more courses would benefit by having better clearly marked yardage markers and even GPS's in the cart. I even play quicker when there is a cart GPS and I own a rangefinder I use every round/80% of my shots.