The 60 and over Thread

[skigolfmike]

Missing short is not always an indication of pulling the wrong club or an unfamiliarity with ones ability. And evening out the short and long results over the course of a season does not always save strokes. But folks have made that connection for as long as I’ve been on golf forums.

If all the factors were equal, then yes, pulling more club would be the logical solution to hitting more greens, distributing the misses more evenly, and gaining strokes.

Those who believe there is a variance of only 10-15 yrds between the longest and shortest distances a given club will provide are probably out of touch with reality.

Likewise, those of us who are consistent-challenged and track shots through an app like Shotscope need to take “performance” distances with a grain of salt.

One area in my approach game that I need to improve is recognizing slightly elevated greens. That has a huge impact on my distances and I don’t always recognize them.

True, but when a player’s approach shots re consistently shot by 15 yards, then it’s not taking enough club.

I know I can count on my 7 iron for 130 carry. I know if I flush it it can go over 135 carry. How often does that happen? If I get a weird yardage like 125 into a 1/2 club wind, then I’m maybe hitting an easy 7 instead of a hard 8. Sometimes it doesn’t matter. Yesterday I had 142 up hill, playing 150 with a slight tail wind. It was 130, playing 138 to clear the front. If I hit a 7 and land short, it doesn’t get on. I needed a 6 to carry the front, which I did. It landed 135, playing 142. However, it rolled off the back of the green, just into the rough. I guess better to hit the 7 and stay short, or was it. I hit the 6 well, good flight and it should have spun, but, because of he elevation, it came in a little flat and didn’t check. Maybe I should have hit an easy 6 that landed short and rolled on or hit the bank and checked.

 

[skigolfmike]

I agree, I can't put that much spin either. Just hit and stop on the green.

I spent a lot of time this winter tuning my bag just to be able for my 7 iron to hit and hold greens when playing from the fairway. Took a while, but I got it to 5000+ spin and a 40*+ descent angle. All that tuning maximized carry a bit too.

 

[Birdman03]

I spent a lot of time this winter tuning my bag just to be able for my 7 iron to hit and hold greens when playing from the fairway. Took a while, but I got it to 5000+ spin and a 40*+ descent angle. All that tuning maximized carry a bit too.

That 7i has the Fujikura 50g R2 flex shaft, correct? According to Titleist the R2 flex is sometimes called 'A' flex.

It is very interesting to me that your optimum ball flight comes from using a very light shaft with a lot of flex.

Do you know the swing and ball speeds you were getting on the optimal 7i hits?

Mats VS Grass – What’s the Difference?

Ryan Johnson & Greg Mathewson INTRODUCTION More and more customers today are being custom fit for golf clubs. With the use of TrackMan and custom fitting tools we have the ability to get custom…

blog.trackmangolf.com

According to Trackman, mats impart higher launch and spin compared to grass.

 

[JonMA1]

True, but when a player’s approach shots re consistently shot by 15 yards, then it’s not taking enough club.

I know I can count on my 7 iron for 130 carry. I know if I flush it it can go over 135 carry. How often does that happen? If I get a weird yardage like 125 into a 1/2 club wind, then I’m maybe hitting an easyt 7 instead of a hard 8. Sometimes it doesn’t matter. Yesterday I had 142 up hill, playing 150 with a slight tail wind. It was 130, playing 138 to clear the front. If I hit a 7 and land short, it doesn’t get on. I needed a 6 to carry the front, which I did. It landed 135, playing 142. However, it rolled off the back of the green, just into the rough. I guess better to hit the 7 and stay short, or was it. I hit the 6 well, good flight and it should have spun, but, because of he elevation, it came in a little flat and didn’t check. Maybe I should have hit an easy 6 that landed short and rolled on or hit the bank and checked.

100% true - there are a lot of folks who have no idea or are living in a fantasy world. But for everyone one of those players, there’s also an internet expert who will see a high capper hitting 30% short, 5% long and make the assumption they don’t know their game. Both extremes are wrong.

What gets missed with those numbers is that the right club was selected - and executed - 65% of the time (distance wise). Of the 30% missed short, a percentage of those were by design, and a larger percentage of those were simply mishits. That leaves a very small percentage where the wrong club was selected. Of those, some will be wrong due to not realizing there’s an elevation change or wind. Those numbers will also not show penalties long or left to right because a longer club was selected.

While my year long experiment of pulling more club improved certain stats, it also brought about more penalties. Overall, it cost me strokes - if you buy into the strokes gained methodology.

At my skill level, there is a much wider variance between a well-struck shot and one that is duffed. I duff a higher percentage of shots while also hitting 20 yards longer longer than my typical shot when I flush one. Anticipating duffs and pulling more club to guard against them is a bad move. For my game and likely many others. It’s better to pull the right club and accept there’s a higher chance it’ll finish short.

i think we can all agree that moderation and realistic expectations are important in decision making. As a poorer player, I cannot apply the same methods you as a better play employs and expect the same results.

 

[CTRosarian]

I was fitted at Club Champion for irons that would hit and hold greens with descent angle. I made a specific request to the fitter.
It works better with premium Urethane balls but I can hit my irons high enough to hold greens with inexpensive 2piece balls!

It may be unusual but I may make a high fade by stock iron shot and a draw my stock driver shot.
The fade to stick the greens and the draw to maximize distance.
I find it isn't that hard being cross dominant to make the switch.
When my game is on I've been able to alternate driver shots between holes!

 

[JonMA1]

I agree, I can't put that much spin either. Just hit and stop on the green.

Same. On full swings that are struck well, I don’t get very much roll out - even with hybrids. I don’t get a lot of spinning backwards with wedges and that’s ok.

 

[El Rayo X]

True, but when a player’s approach shots re consistently shot by 15 yards, then it’s not taking enough club.

I know I can count on my 7 iron for 130 carry. I know if I flush it it can go over 135 carry. How often does that happen? If I get a weird yardage like 125 into a 1/2 club wind, then I’m maybe hitting an easy 7 instead of a hard 8. Sometimes it doesn’t matter. Yesterday I had 142 up hill, playing 150 with a slight tail wind. It was 130, playing 138 to clear the front. If I hit a 7 and land short, it doesn’t get on. I needed a 6 to carry the front, which I did. It landed 135, playing 142. However, it rolled off the back of the green, just into the rough. I guess better to hit the 7 and stay short, or was it. I hit the 6 well, good flight and it should have spun, but, because of he elevation, it came in a little flat and didn’t check. Maybe I should have hit an easy 6 that landed short and rolled on or hit the bank and checked.

That's why we need to keep the short game sharp, my friend...

 

[Sean]

there is a much wider variance between a well-struck shot and one that is duffed.

Amen. Which can make club selection a challenge when you are faced with a shot into a very well protected green, i.e., no place to bail out.

 

[CTRosarian]

Amen. Which can make club selection a challenge when you are faced with a shot into a very well protected green, i.e., no place to bail out.

Then don't bail. Aim to maximize your chance of getting on the "green", typically the "center of mass," the area that you have a reasonable chance of getting up and down in two.

 

[Sean]

Then don't bail. Aim to maximize your chance of getting on the "green", typically the "center of mass," the area that you have a reasonable chance of getting up and down in two.

That's what I do...middle of the green is my target.

 

[Grand Stranded]

Not sure I understand. That's a solid golf bag right there.

It’s me coming to a realization of where my game is now, and what will work best going forward. As I look at it on paper it does look solid, and it all makes sense, but man, it also says “tell me you’re going to turn 70 soon without saying you’re turning 70 soon”.

 

[Bernoulli]

Pretty much this. For example, the one time they nuked a 7-iron and that's how far they think they will hit it every time.

Most greens are around 30 yards deep, so if I have 135 to the middle, I know I have 150 to the back and 125 to the front. If I miss hit my 135 yard club I could end up short of the green, and maybe in a hazard. Instead, I'll take on more club. If I hit it really well, I'm on the back of the green. If I miss hit it I'm on the front of the green. If my adrenaline is really flowing I probably take the 135 club, but that rarely happens.

I firmly believe in taking more club. Too often, we select clubs based on what we think our max distance is for that club. (As if we’re going to hit every shot with that club that distance).

 

[Grand Stranded]

Pretty much this. For example, the one time they nuked a 7-iron and that's how far they think they will hit it every time.

Most greens are around 30 yards deep, so if I have 135 to the middle, I know I have 150 to the back and 125 to the front. If I miss hit my 135 yard club I could end up short of the green, and maybe in a hazard. Instead, I'll take on more club. If I hit it really well, I'm on the back of the green. If I miss hit it I'm on the front of the green. If my adrenaline is really flowing I probably take the 135 club, but that rarely happens.

Same.

 

[Grand Stranded]

I’m playing off a 12.6 right now, but hitting the ball like an 18 off the turf.
I played for the first time in 2-3 weeks on Thursday. My normal miss comes up short as I rarely “nuke” a ball well enough to carry or run over the back of a green.
Unfortunately I was hitting everything (I mean everything) thin that day. On the first hole I hit a line drive with my 51* wedge from 82 yards that went about 115-120 into the woods behind the green.
It was so bad that the only time I hit the green on a par 3 in regulation was the 11th hole. I hit SW from 117. My 56* SW goes about 75-80 when hit well. My friends laughed when I told them what I was going to hit… it took off like a 2iron, landed and ran about 35 yards and stopped on the back of the green.

that’s an extreme example, but the point of this mini novel is most of us are very inconsistent. If you want to score, realize what your miss is that day, and play accordingly. Try to fix things off the course, not on.

 

[1860VS]

One shot I might blame on club selection and a failure to fully account for wind, temperature and the target terrain (green has a large slope in front).

Wind is the biggest culprit for my distance misses. Modern clubs it the ball so darn high you are way above the treeline and I will often misjudge just how much it is moving up there.

 

[JonMA1]

We had quite a bit of snow this morning, so I was stuck playing some sim rounds in the garage. Shot an 85 and an 87. Not my best effort but it beats the hell out of doing nothing golf related. I really need to spend some time on the rest of my game. Been working so hard on the driver and everything else is kind of going to hell... a deeper level of hell, anyway.

Really getting the itch to buy some new irons and wedges. I really need to just work with what I have.

 

[CTRosarian]

Really getting the itch to buy some new irons and wedges. I really need to just work with what I have.

Have you considered playing with a half set? Playing with the clubs you are most comfortable with and leaving the troublesome ones home?

 

[Phil75070]

It may be unusual but I may make a high fade by stock iron shot and a draw my stock driver shot.
The fade to stick the greens and the draw to maximize distance.

From the time I took up golf, that has been my aspiration - draw the driver and fade the irons. Actually realizing it has been the challenge for me. I can pretty much hit a draw or a fade, when needed, with the driver. Trying to hit that fade with the irons usually results in a push for me.

 

[JonMA1]

Have you considered playing with a half set? Playing with the clubs you are most comfortable with and leaving the troublesome ones home?

That changes from day to day. Hahaha.

Seriously, I'd rather work harder on the troublesome clubs. Currently, my bag is full, but I have spent entire seasons playing with less clubs.

 

[skigolfmike]

That 7i has the Fujikura 50g R2 flex shaft, correct? According to Titleist the R2 flex is sometimes called 'A' flex.

It is very interesting to me that your optimum ball flight comes from using a very light shaft with a lot of flex.

Do you know the swing and ball speeds you were getting on the optimal 7i hits?

Mats VS Grass – What’s the Difference?

Ryan Johnson & Greg Mathewson INTRODUCTION More and more customers today are being custom fit for golf clubs. With the use of TrackMan and custom fitting tools we have the ability to get custom…

blog.trackmangolf.com

According to Trackman, mats impart higher launch and spin compared to grass.

Yes, it’s an A flex or Sr. Flex shaft

7 iron swing speed is 75-76 mph, ball speed is 100-102 mph

What I am see on the course under optimal conditions with a good strike from the fairway is 135 carry with 5 yards of rollout.

 

[Phil75070]

That changes from day to day. Hahaha.

Seriously, I'd rather work harder on the troublesome clubs. Currently, my bag is full, but I have spent entire seasons playing with less clubs.

A guy I used to play with on weekends would only carry even numbered irons one day, and odd numbered irons the next during the winter months. This was to force himself to learn to hit the clubs he struggled with and to improve his shot making ability

 

[skigolfmike]

Wind is the biggest culprit for my distance misses. Modern clubs it the ball so darn high you are way above the treeline and I will often misjudge just how much it is moving up there.

Gotta learn to flight the ball! (Like we are all pros LOL). Seriously though, in the wind, take a club or 2 more and swing easy. I’ve hit 6 irons at 8 iron distance into the wind. Downwind, sometimes instead of clubbing down, I’ll swing easy with the normal club just to keep it from getting up in the air. OTOH, I may hit less club downwind if I need to spin it. Depends on pin location

 

[1860VS]

Gotta learn to flight the ball! (Like we are all pros LOL). Seriously though, in the wind, take a club or 2 more and swing easy. I’ve hit 6 irons at 8 iron distance into the wind. Downwind, sometimes instead of clubbing down, I’ll swing easy with the normal club just to keep it from getting up in the air. OTOH, I may hit less club downwind if I need to spin it. Depends on pin location

Oh, I can flight it. My issue comes when I don't recognize the need to do so. winds over 10 mph its obvious. When we are near the shores of the big lakes the wind is always onshore in the day, Lower in the morning, building as the sun heats the land, the land heated air over the ground rises,, cool air from the lakes flows in to replace it. Sometimes it seems to only be working 50' above the ground... Damn lakes make their own weather. Lake effect snow. Lake effect rain. Lake effect wind............

 

[skigolfmike]

We started in handicap season Friday. Friday was no carts, so I played by myself, so that round can’t be posted. Might be a good thing as it was a 76, 7.5 differential. Played in the group yesterday and today. Not as good yesterday and today. 85 and 84. Saturday was 4 doubles, that’s a killer. Today it was getting stuck on the bogey train on the front. Again, very windy and challenging conditions both days.

Tomorrow is out. Low of 25, high of 35. Ugh. It’s OK, I’ve played 6 days in a row, so I guess a day off would be a good thing. Got some stuff going on this week anyway. If I get far enough ahead I’ll play Tuesday. Headed to TN Wednesday. Will try to get in a round down there if I can.

 

[Buckeyegolfnut]

Same. On full swings that are struck well, I don’t get very much roll out - even with hybrids. I don’t get a lot of spinning backwards with wedges and that’s ok.

Reminds me of a story I read a long time ago. It seems some guy was asking Tommy Armour how pros put backspinf on the ball, convinced that there must be some secret to it. Armour told him that any properly struck golf shot would have backsping, but the guy refused to believe that and persisted in his questioning. Finally, Armour asked him whether he was usually past the pin or short of it on his approaches. When the guy said that he was almost always short Armour replied, "Then what in the Hell do you need with backspin?!"

That's what I do...middle of the green is my target.

Many years ago I was advised to avoid shooting at "sucker pins". I took that advice to heart, and it helped me for quite a while. Nowadays, that idea has become so ingrained that I consider ALL pins sucker pins. Even the ones right in the middle of the green!